Aion (Open Beta, Launch Day Info too!)

[Falconeer]

I'll stand by my claim that Age of Conan PvP combat was simply awesome for a myriad of reasons. Too bad the PvP metagame was simply non-existing and it all soon ended in a meaningless brawl. Let's hope for the upcoming Towers.

Back to Aion, all I was saying is that if you play to Abyss offensively you are going to get satisfaction. You pick your battlefields, based on mobs level, and that means most of the times you are picking your enemies. While higher level bastards are probably ganking in your lower tiered zones, it's less likely they are prowling their OWN lower zones to protect their weaklings.

If you play the Abyss conservative, you are pre-ordering yourself a /ragequit.

"Terrible PvP design" topic: yes, I don't like it. I liked both Conan and Shadowbane cause levels weren't so important. Since it gets so long to get to 50, levels should have SO MUCH less impact. Meh 

[Venkman]

SB levels didn't matter because nobody bothered with PvP until they were at R5. Instead spending the prior levels in grind groups think it was about 8 hours to R5 when I played).. Which is fine. 5 years ago.

[Ashamanchill]

Back to Aion, all I was saying is that if you play to Abyss offensively you are going to get satisfaction. You pick your battlefields, based on mobs level, and that means most of the times you are picking your enemies. While higher level bastards are probably ganking in your lower tiered zones, it's less likely they are prowling their OWN lower zones to protect their weaklings.

If you play the Abyss conservative, you are pre-ordering yourself a /ragequit.

This is very true. However, you can't just level up to 25. group up with similar level friends, and run around like that forever. Eventually the game will cross it's arms and tell you to bury your nose in the grind again, for the reason of staying competative.

If this game had signifigant exp gained from pvp, or some sort of / lvl 40 or so button, my friends and I would still be playing it now.

[Falconeer]

SB levels didn't matter because nobody bothered with PvP until they were at R5. Instead spending the prior levels in grind groups think it was about 8 hours to R5 when I played).. Which is fine. 5 years ago.

What do you mean? True, no one PvPed before R5, but R5 was the equivalent of level 10 in many MMO of today, you could get there in a couple of days. And a bunch of R5 (lev 50-59) could easily dispatch R7 (lev 70 - 75) players. So levels mattered, but they weren't critical. Which is definitely the best way to go.

[01101010]

You can't see your enemy level, but if you jump them on the lev27 mob areas, you can easily guess what they are doing there. If you attack, you can choose the battlefield. That gave us me and my friends many fun nights. YMMV, as usual.

Very true... which is also a point of contention. It may intend to curb a flight response, but for the most part that is the first reaction of people - run the fuck away. However, if you have another monitor, its quite easy to check and see your opponent's level on the aion site (which is even more of a wtf response having the ability to see it there but not ingame). All that said, levels matter in PvP (/echo) which is why level cap is the holy grail to which ability and, to an extent luck, becomes the defining point. Only here, you are hit in the chest with a 50lb slug of grinding which draws out the "level difference and your inability to counter an opponent who has greater level" to very large proportions. Case in point, wandering around morheim or eltnen as as 20 something while leveling and grinding and questing, it is not uncommon to come across an opposing player in the very late 20s or 30s. I did notice the cap on a few rifts were at lvl 32, but still... we are talking a zone for predominantly pre-abyss levels. Its nice to be a big fish, but a shark in a pond is uncalled for.

And yes, there are places in the Abyss where I have seen 1 maybe two enemies tops, in days of going there - mainly guardian tower areas, which act as a bodyguard against the very thing I am railing against. I take my lumps, hell I am one of the few that would rather die fighting than run away, but my point still stands that the situation is faulty. I mean, I did go to catholic grade school in the 80s, I know the ropes.

[Ashamanchill]

You can't see your enemy level, but if you jump them on the lev27 mob areas, you can easily guess what they are doing there. If you attack, you can choose the battlefield. That gave us me and my friends many fun nights. YMMV, as usual.

Only here, you are hit in the chest with a 50lb slug of grinding

Woot new sig!!!

[Threash]

I've had no problems grinding in the abyss.  While Falcs method of play IS very fun its gonna get you jack shit for exp, although it might net you some really good gear eventually.  Exp in the abyss is far better than anywhere else, finding a good spot and defending it is crucial.  I found that duoing is the best option, a grand majority of gankers are soloers and they will more than likely leave you alone if you have someone with you.  Find a repeatable quest that doesn't involve item drops so you are finishing faster rather than being slowed down by grouping and rake in the exp, taking occasional breaks to clear the area of enemies helps a lot to make it less boring.

[Venkman]

SB levels didn't matter because nobody bothered with PvP until they were at R5. Instead spending the prior levels in grind groups think it was about 8 hours to R5 when I played).. Which is fine. 5 years ago.

What do you mean? True, no one PvPed before R5, but R5 was the equivalent of level 10 in many MMO of today, you could get there in a couple of days. And a bunch of R5 (lev 50-59) could easily dispatch R7 (lev 70 - 75) players. So levels mattered, but they weren't critical. Which is definitely the best way to go.

5 years ago, the genre was niche because people like us accepted "couple of days" of sitting around with our thumbs up our asses while an overpowered friend pulled from static spawn, just so we could eventually get to the fun part of the game (city building, PvP/sieges, gank squads, etc).

There still is apparently a market for that, but I echo the sentiment that Aion is going to enjoy a AoC/WAR style falloff unless they can get that time-to-PvP down. It's a PvP flying game with not nearly enough of either. And adding more PvE content to keep the time-to-PvP the same just less grindy makes it closer to the WoW that's sitting right there being better all the time anyway.

PvP should start at 10, at the latest, and in a flying zone. You have enough abilities, you've learned your class enough, it's not going to be that great but as long as you keep the 20+ crowd out, at least it gives you a taste of what the game is supposed to be. And then you can determine if you want to level up or you want to PvP.

Until then, they'll have more people quitting before the good stuff than experiencing it, at least i the West.

(and yea, imho of course )

[01101010]

I've had no problems grinding in the abyss.  While Falcs method of play IS very fun its gonna get you jack shit for exp, although it might net you some really good gear eventually.  Exp in the abyss is far better than anywhere else, finding a good spot and defending it is crucial.  I found that duoing is the best option, a grand majority of gankers are soloers and they will more than likely leave you alone if you have someone with you.  Find a repeatable quest that doesn't involve item drops so you are finishing faster rather than being slowed down by grouping and rake in the exp, taking occasional breaks to clear the area of enemies helps a lot to make it less boring.

Those reaper quests that are 150 repeatables net you a bubble on avg from lvl 26-30. 15 reapers + the quest xp (basically 16 reapers) = 1/20 a level and more if you clear the mages. easy grind, but a grind none-the-less and has the benefit of being by a group of guards for antigank protection. My point still stands though... sadly, I will dredge on to the end of the road.

[Morfiend]

I canceled my account. As much as I want to PVP and play the endgame, I am not going to put up with that grind to get there. So I do the only thing I can and speak with my wallet.

I just wish they would of had a exit survey, so I could have told them why I canceled.

[Threash]

Today ended the free month period, i wish we had some subscription numbers.

[Nebu]

I'm waiting to see the 3 month and 6 month points.  If Cataclysm were coming out in 3 months, the chart for Aion would look very similar to WAR interesting. 

[amiable]

I canceled my account. As much as I want to PVP and play the endgame, I am not going to put up with that grind to get there. So I do the only thing I can and speak with my wallet.

I just wish they would of had a exit survey, so I could have told them why I canceled.

Yeah this is me.  If they could just have had leveling through PvP like WoW/WAR I probably would have stuck it out, but I just can't see myself grinding through all this crap to get to the fun part.

[March]

I canceled my account. As much as I want to PVP and play the endgame, I am not going to put up with that grind to get there. So I do the only thing I can and speak with my wallet.

I just wish they would of had a exit survey, so I could have told them why I canceled.

Yeah this is me.  If they could just have had leveling through PvP like WoW/WAR I probably would have stuck it out, but I just can't see myself grinding through all this crap to get to the fun part.

Yep, canceled at 20 before they charged for the next month.  It had the odd combination of linear PvE and a stupidly long line.  If you are going to make the leveling process a hallmark of your game, make it open and interesting... let me explore and feel a part of the world; else, put me on the trolly, let the bell ring a few times and dump me off at the fun part.

[Redgiant]

I have a 31 Cleric on Fregion, and I'm in a solid legion (SiN).

But even for me, like any MMO, there are days where you are excited to log in and play, and others where feel like you aren't progressing much at all.

The problem with Aion as other said is: the grind is so slow unless you do very specific things and usually with a duo/trio/group, that those days where you are "down" is enough to make you quit for real. Loggin in for 2 hours and seeing literally no growth in your XP bar (okay maybe a small part of one bar) is ridiculous, especially when you know you are already behind by 5-10 levels the most advanced people you try fighting in the Abyss.

- there are no BGs or other level-fair areas to at least have graduated PvP competitive success.
- the level caps on Rifts are a joke, since there are always gank groups specifically tailored to entering the top-end Rifts and heading straight for the lowbie areas.
- the Abyss seems like it would be a blast later on when we are all similar lkevels and skill plays more of a part, but honestly I am not fucking setting foot in that cluster fuck again untl I am 40. As a healer and only level 31, I think you know why.

The best way to grind is do elites like Fire Temple at the low end of the level range (where they are still low reds) and with the minimum of 4-5 poeple (not 6) of about the same level so everyone get max XP while still killign at a decent clip. Plus the odd chance for a blue or very rarely an orange is nice. ANd if you only resign yourselves to doing the front yard trash to XP, a trio of people is fine.

At 31 with only two other 31s (temp, sorc, me as healer) we would net 30k per kill which is like turning in a decent quest every minute or two.

[Hoax]

You're in SiN?  Say hi to Darph and anyone else who was R30 on Scorn back in the day.  Good fucking times those, until it turned out they duped gold to build their cities.  For real though, I love SiN played with them on Scorn and went looking for them TR and the like on Archimonde when WoW released because it was such fun having real pvp'ers on my server.

[Gunzwei]

This.

Also, anyone know if there's a soft-cap on abilities working such that the level disparity doesn't matter so much? Like, after level 35, everyone has an equal chance to hit with the difference being he power of that hit or something?

I believe soft-caps start popping up around lvl 40 as far as stats like crit/block. As far as hitting with attacks/spells that's all related to accuracy/m.accuracy vs the targets defense stats assuming there isn't some background modifier or check (level vs level, spell rank vs level, etc). .

If you've played CoH/CoV PVE then it's some what similar to how it works there with level differences in AION's PVE/PVP.

[LC]

You're in SiN?  Say hi to Darph and anyone else who was R30 on Scorn back in the day.  Good fucking times those, until it turned out they duped gold to build their cities.  For real though, I love SiN played with them on Scorn and went looking for them TR and the like on Archimonde when WoW released because it was such fun having real pvp'ers on my server.

Darph left SiN a long time ago. Nobody in SiN duped gold in SB.

[Venkman]

Yea, I'm out. I figured if by the time Borderlands launched I wasn't looking at the $10 upgrade for the lvl 30 wings, the game wasn't doing it for me. That plus a lifestyle that no longers support "serious" MMO play, yea, no time to play this type of game the right way.

[Setanta]

This is another case of "I really want to like this game, but..." for me. WAR was another case but the cockblocks throughout it made it a whole heap of no fun - Aion is going the same way - especially as a ranger who couldn't use fucking ranged weapons properly until 16 compared to a damn sorc that could chew through content from level one onwards. Yes I know the ranger gets incredibly strong later on, but this isn't later on, this is now and you want me to melee? WTF? Pretty game, some interesting backstory, but it feels like it's trying to be a vanilla WoW grind while not being WoW - screw that. I don't want to pay for more of the same - but I will pay fore something new and innovative and Aion isn't that.

My missus likes Aion because I spend more time sitting on the couch with her, unable to face the grind than actually play it 

[Chimpy]

I am going to keep playing for another month probably. But I am pretty sure I won't last much past that.

The insane time(effort)/reward ratio for everything is just way out of whack. Had they either tripled (or probably quadrupled+) the amount of cash you get from doing the basic stuff, lowered the XP curve slightly, and maybe been a little more sane about how damn long it takes to do something like level a tradeskill I think they would have been closer to being spot on.

EDIT: I think I may have figured out why the money curve seems to be so insane (and maybe why the RMT is more rampant than they could have imagined). I would need someone who played beta or the Korean release before 1.5 to be sure, but I am suspecting they did not lower the cost of anything when lowering the amount needed to level drastically. Thus, you grind less mobs (less cash) in the 1.5 release than you had to before, but you end up bankrupting yourself because the basic costs for everything are set based on a much higher income per level path.

[Koyasha]

Aion seems to have some issues, but making money in it isn't really one of them.  It's quite easy to have enough money to buy all the skill books you need and pay for minor expenses like travel, binding, res stones, and teleport scrolls, while also purchasing reasonable levels of green equipment from the broker.

Now, if you spend money foolishly or constantly get yourself killed you're going to have trouble, but it's the same in any game.  Even if you didn't have the collector's edition and needed to buy the wings at 30 for almost a million kinah, all it takes is being reasonably frugal.  It's no more difficult to have a million kinah to buy that with than it was to have 100 gold to buy the level 40 mount back during WoW release.

[Chimpy]

I am pretty damn frugal in that I don't level any tradeskills but gathering, I don't buy gear off the broker, and I have the collectors edition.

I still have cashflow problems (i.e. If I buy the next up gathering 300-399, I will effectively bankrupt myself). It is probably due to the fact that I have the world's shittiest luck in drops, I average 1-2 white drops per level and 1 green every 4 or 5. /shrug

[Koyasha]

Yeah, that sounds like pretty terrible luck.  Most people that complain about money are blowing tons of it on either tradeskills or excessive broker purchasing - so far every character I've played between beta and release has had no money problems except if I try to spend a lot on tradeskills, or get spendy at the broker.  So I suppose it's fair to say some really bad luck can put you in a pretty bad situation money-wise.  Vendoring whites seems to be one of the best forms of income in this game, second only to overcharging for stuff on the broker.  And make doubleplus sure you aren't putting items on the broker for less than vendors will pay.  A lot of people seem to do that.  I'm pretty sure I've done it once or twice when I've forgotten to check what items will vendor for.

[Shatter]

I dont do any crafting and basically just quest, farm mobs and PvP mostly at level 38 and I have no money issues.  Thats also spending a good amount of money on gear upgrades since I PvP a lot I try and keep my gear higher level as well.  I think right now Im sitting on 1.2million Kinah, my gear is all level 36-38 and have all my abilities.  *shrugs*  The only people I know that have cash flow problems are crafters

[Threash]

I dont do any crafting and basically just quest, farm mobs and PvP mostly at level 38 and I have no money issues.  Thats also spending a good amount of money on gear upgrades since I PvP a lot I try and keep my gear higher level as well.  I think right now Im sitting on 1.2million Kinah, my gear is all level 36-38 and have all my abilities.  *shrugs*  The only people I know that have cash flow problems are crafters

The level 40 wings are 12 million though.

[Shatter]

I dont do any crafting and basically just quest, farm mobs and PvP mostly at level 38 and I have no money issues.  Thats also spending a good amount of money on gear upgrades since I PvP a lot I try and keep my gear higher level as well.  I think right now Im sitting on 1.2million Kinah, my gear is all level 36-38 and have all my abilities.  *shrugs*  The only people I know that have cash flow problems are crafters

The level 40 wings are 12 million though.

Level 40 wings have only 10 more seconds flight time I believe over the level 30's.  I look at those as more of a luxury item I'll get eventually.  Kind of like in WOW TBC. you didnt need the 5000gold faster mount, but was nice to have. 

[Redgiant]

Having 1 million Kinah at 38 is a hell of a lot different than right at level 30. No one I know or in my legion has the 1:30 wings unless they got them from the CE code. No one. And they are so worth having that if anyone could afford them they would drop the 900-ish k to get them if they had the money. Which they do not.

I don't know what game you are playing, but I have
- not spent on anything in the broker except a couple decent upgrades that were cheap deals (cheap to a < level 30 is like < 10-25 k)
- bought my cleric books, and in a couple cases delayed a book or two as not necesary atm
- don't die a whole lot in non-PvP (where it can and will drain 10's of k)
- get a Volcano XXX white drop every day or two (vendor for 30k), basic trash all the time (maybe 10-20k per dump at vendor), and a green I can wear or sell (broker if possible) once every few days
- gathering commensurate to level, and I broker all the things that make decent $$ (High-grades, items)
- don't craft much (Alchemy at 150, put on hold a week ago)

And the most I have ever had in pocket is now at 31, I'm at 213k.

There is a MARKED difference in money levels and expectations on what is deemed "expensive" at each level. The amount things sell for, or you earn from quests, or your own leveling costs incur seem to now double almost each level or 1.5 levels.

The only people who might have a lot of money, and there is a large gap between them and everyone else, are the crafters and commerce types who do the buy & sell route.

[Falconeer]

I guess it's all about luck then, cause at lev 24:

- without crafting at all
- by playing very lightly the auction game
- and still buying all the best armours and weapons I could get

I had 300k.

At 26 I dropped down top 130k by buying a whole new set of green armor and weapons, otherwise I was around 400k

[Jerrith]

I'm in a guild with a bunch of people I know in RL, and I've seen both ends of the spectrum, from a ranger (~31) who can't afford to pay for a single death, to one member who did actually buy the level 30 wings for ~1 million.  I never had serious cash issues, and tended to buy greens when they were decent upgrades.  Now that I'm playing alts up to 30, (and basically never dying) I've found that death really does seem to be the largest factor.  People who don't die end up with lots of money, and those who do die on a regular basis are broke.  I've ended up with quite a bit of extra money, even after twinking, from playing the alts up.  (As a rough example: I had about 500k banked when I started playing alts.  Buying them gear and inventory slots, I got down to ~200k.  Now with three of them in the 20s with virtually no deaths, I'm at ~750k banked, and at least one of them has ~300k on him right now.)

On a side note:  I spent all my abyss points the other day (well, all but 1 *laughs*) to buy the level 30 blue hat that gives +4% flight speed.  4% may not seem like much, but when you have it and your opponent doesn't, it really makes a difference.  I can chase many people down that I couldn't before, and can escape much more easily when needed.  Highly recommended. :)

[Xurtan]

I do alright cash wise, but the 1.3 million kinah on level 40 abilities hurt.   (Damn you Sorcs that only had to pay 800k.)

700k again at 45 isn't looking too good either.

[Xanthippe]

Is it true that higher levels cannot farm low level content?  I have heard that nothing drops if the mob is not in your level range but have not tested it out.

[01101010]

Is it true that higher levels cannot farm low level content?  I have heard that nothing drops if the mob is not in your level range but have not tested it out.

I hear 7 is the magic number.

[Gunzwei]

It was 10 levels difference unless they changed it.

[waffel]

You know there are many places to go into the Abyss at any level where you can farm with minimal ganking right?  I suggest you spend time looking around more.  Most enemy players will go to the congested areas to gank, they dont go to the lesser populated spots.  I spent 3 hours last night farming a spot and saw 1 enemy the whole time and he didnt bother to attack me.  Im level 38 now and since level 25 I have found at least 5 spots that were decent grinding areas with minimal interruption but I spent time looking around to find them

Wait, what? 25 is the magic level to start PvPing, and when you got to 25, you go to the PvP area to... get away from other players and PvE?