Aion (Open Beta, Launch Day Info too!)

[Nebu]

You can fly.

I have to admit, that's the first time you've made me laugh. 

Being bug free is good.  I also understand that people are desperate for a new world and a new arms race.  Having played this in beta, I just don't see how it's getting such a vocal following.  It's very vanilla.  There's nothing in Aion that we all haven't already seen a million times in other games.  Nothing. 

If people are that desperate for a new world to frolic in then the first person/house to develop even a mildly interesting title should make bank. 

[Ratman_tf]

It's pretty and bug free.  That in and of itself places it above most MMOs.

The rallying cry of the mediocre game. I mean, seriously. "Buggy" is thrown around so much, it's lost it's literal meaning. Like wise guys saying "Fuggedaboutit!" it means nothing without context now.

[Zane0]

It's not as instanced.

I dunno. Much of the excitement --in the communities I visit anyhow-- seems to derive from the perception of a balance between the smooth accessibility of WoW on one hand, and the older, more communitarian, open world gestalt of an EQ, AO, or DAOC -- but without the terrible netcode, poor balance, or gimmicky design of AOC or WHO.

[Threash]

You can fly.

I have to admit, that's the first time you've made me laugh. 

Being bug free is good.  I also understand that people are desperate for a new world and a new arms race.  Having played this in beta, I just don't see how it's getting such a vocal following.  It's very vanilla.  There's nothing in Aion that we all haven't already seen a million times in other games.  Nothing. 

If people are that desperate for a new world to frolic in then the first person/house to develop even a mildly interesting title should make bank. 

It runs well and has very few bugs.  That's something we haven't seen since WoW and for most of us is more than enough.  I said this a buncha pages ago in this very thread but i bears repeating: a lot of people don't want something new, we are perfectly happy with the way the games are being implemented now, we just want something that's not royally fucked up.  Give me AoC with tons more launch content and a viable pvp system, give me Warhammer without the retarded level grind and fucked up endgame, give me a new WoW i haven't played for four years and i will be happy and sub to your game for years.  If you think the genre needs to reinvent itself with every new game you are going to be sorely disappointed every single time, if you like the genre as it is but just wish games weren't made by inbred retards who will fuck up the most obvious things then you are very much looking forward to Aion.

[Nissl]

There's nothing in Aion that we all haven't already seen a million times in other games.  Nothing.

If people are that desperate for a new world to frolic in then the first person/house to develop even a mildly interesting title should make bank.

The main selling points as I see it are a world PVP endgame that may have flaws but works (!), a leveling setup that promotes grouping starting in the mid-teens, and a modest, sensible push towards reducing instancing and increasing overall difficulty relative to recent games.  

You'd think it would be easy to get in the ballpark of WoW's polish level, but the past five years suggest it's surprisingly difficult. The world PVP crowd in particular is desperate for a solid game.  

[Vash]

Someone tell me one reason that Aion is a better implementation of MMO pvp than we've already seen in other games?  It's a shiny new grind, I get that. 
 
I'm just not getting the love here. 

Open world faction based PvP that has an NPC third faction to act as a balancing factor, ....and flying.  

It's basically WAR done right with a hint of Asian grindy diku.

• First, it has a very solid engine that can put out some amazing graphics and solid framerates even on older PC's.
• No instanced PvP to pull people out of and dilute the open world PvP.  Also no PQ's and the issues associated with them (loot distribution, getting enough people, etc).
• Both sides have the exact same classes, which is easier to balance than WAR's system where mirror classes were similar but still different enough for one to be superior.
• One central open world PvP focus (The Abyss), instead of spreading it out all over the entire game world.
• An actual system already in place at launch to help with population imbalance, the NPC Balaur in the Abyss.
• Assuming it doesn't have some of the worst MMO PvE ever and a clunky/terrible/mostly useless crafting system, it's putting WAR to shame on just about every front.

I haven't played in any of the beta weekends, probably won't pick it up on release, but just following it casually all of the above is more than enough to grab my attention.  If it doesn't go full retard and fail in epic fashion after release there's a very good chance I'll give it a shot at some point.

[Rasix]

I weep for humanity.

[Mrbloodworth]

Someone tell me one reason that Aion is a better implementation of MMO pvp than we've already seen in other games?  It's a shiny new grind, I get that.  
 
I'm just not getting the love here.  

Open world faction based PvP that has an NPC third faction to act as a balancing factor, ....and flying.  

It's basically WAR done right with a hint of Asian grindy diku.

• First, it has a very solid engine that can put out some amazing graphics and solid framerates even on older PC's.
• No instanced PvP to pull people out of and dilute the open world PvP.  Also no PQ's and the issues associated with them (loot distribution, getting enough people, etc).
• Both sides have the exact same classes, which is easier to balance than WAR's system where mirror classes were similar but still different enough for one to be superior.
• One central open world PvP focus (The Abyss), instead of spreading it out all over the entire game world.
• An actual system already in place at launch to help with population imbalance, the NPC Balaur in the Abyss.
• Assuming it doesn't have some of the worst MMO PvE ever and a clunky/terrible/mostly useless crafting system, it's putting WAR to shame on just about every front.

I haven't played in any of the beta weekends, probably won't pick it up on release, but just following it casually all of the above is more than enough to grab my attention.  If it doesn't go full retard and fail in epic fashion after release there's a very good chance I'll give it a shot at some point.

Your saying its not Warhammer?


...

I haven't even played it, or wanted into the beta, and im a MMO WHORE, WHORE I SAY. Im with nebu. There is like, nothing here other than some ignorantly contrived forum design love (No instances, oh joy?).

[Segoris]

Someone tell me one reason that Aion is a better implementation of MMO pvp than we've already seen in other games?  It's a shiny new grind, I get that. 
 
I'm just not getting the love here. 

Better implementation then that we've seen in the past, or that of games that are currently an option? To me, I don't think it's a "better" implementation of other games in the past, but rather an equal for different reasons then others. Then again, I also don't think we've had a good pvp end game MMO since pre-ToA DAoC.

The reasons why this is better (to me, which is most likely very different then what others look for) then current options would be
-Communities (which this has very good potential to have)
-Non instanced pvp
-Death meaning something with kill:death ratio being important to earn rewards.
-Central PVP area with lots of room
-Balanced PVP
-Non instant gratification without being catass-ariffic
-The PVE is (from what I've experienced) pretty much on par with pve titles
-It's fun.

[Morfiend]

-Balanced PVP

 

-Non instant gratification without being catass-ariffic

 

[Mrbloodworth]

-Balanced PVP

 

-Non instant gratification without being catass-ariffic

 

I didn't know how to respond as well, other to ask them to pass to the left please.

[Segoris]

There is like, nothing here other than some ignorantly contrived forum design love (No instances, oh joy?).

Which is different then the other MMOs available how? The reasons to play this are just as poor as the reasons to not play this, which just like other MMOs (including Aion) is nothing new to the table.

[Segoris]

-Balanced PVP

 

-Non instant gratification without being catass-ariffic

 

I didn't know how to respond as well, other to ask them to pass to the left please.

For someone who hasn't played and didn't even want to play to try it out, this means a lot.  

For Morf, is that a disagreement with the balanced pvp thing? If so, how do you figure?

Edit: I should note, I'm not saying it's perfectly balanced, it's just a lot better balanced then just about any other pvp game I've played.

[DLRiley]

Only a hint of Asian grind you say. I want my koolaid so pass me the cup now.

[tazelbain]

WoW brought nothing new to the table but polish.  Same goes for Aion.

If Aion had low level battlegrounds for people who are too low for the Abyss, I would buy it.  But as it is I'll probably burnout before I max a character.

[Threash]

I haven't noticed any grind so far.  If i can make it to lvl 25 out of 50 in one fucking weekend of sporadic play i feel confident in saying theres zero hints of asian grindassery at all.

[Ard]

The problem is, the grind is supposedly there from 25-50.  But that's pre 1.5, and pre US version, so I'm not sure what the reality is.  Find out next weekend I guess.

[Vash]

Your saying its not Warhammer?


...

I haven't even played it, or wanted into the beta, and im a MMO WHORE, WHORE I SAY. Im with nebu. There is like, nothing here other than some ignorantly contrived forum design love (No instances, oh joy?).

It's a PvP focused MMO with an emphasis on open world PvP.  I thought it made sense to compare it to WAR, especially since a lot of people here thought WAR was gonna be robot raptor riding Jesus before it launched.

After WAR went full retard most people have spent the last year pointing and laughing at the fatal flaws it had that killed the game for people, usually some combination of: Grind, Client Performance, Population Imbalance, Class Imbalance, Broken Mechanics, Ward Gear, Having to do the same PvP Scenario over and over (Hi Tor Anroc).

I was simply pointing out that the only flaw on that list that would apply to Aion is grind, which is pretty subjective given the widely varying tolerances different people have. 

-------------

Also, I don't see the problem with not having instanced PvP (BG's, scenarios) if you want your game to focus on open world PvP and capturing objectives in a contested area.

Pretty sure it's already been mentioned that there are PvE instances.

[Morfiend]

For Morf, is that a disagreement with the balanced pvp thing? If so, how do you figure?

Just that PVP is never balanced when classes are involved.

[Nebu]

After WAR went full retard most people have spent the last year pointing and laughing at the fatal flaws it had that killed the game for people, usually some combination of: Grind, Client Performance, Population Imbalance, Class Imbalance, Broken Mechanics, Ward Gear, Having to do the same PvP Scenario over and over (Hi Tor Anroc).

I was simply pointing out that the only flaw on that list that would apply to Aion is grind, which is pretty subjective given the widely varying tolerances different people have.  

WAR failed because of

- broken class/realm balance
- too much cc
- too much pve required as a gateway to pvp
- lack of an incentive to pvp
- poorly implemented large scale warfare
- engine issues

Aion's only advantage on this list is that of a better engine.  If WAR people are flocking to Aion as the "better game".  They are going to be very disappointed.

 

[Vash]

- too much pve required as a gateway to pvp
- lack of an incentive to pvp

Do you mean end-game PvE with the Ward gear?  Otherwise there was literally no PvE required, you could literally cue for Scenarios from lvl 1 and hit 40 without ever getting a PvE kill if you wanted. 

Experience gain that is equal to or often better than PvE.  Realm rank that unlocks PvP gear from vendors and provides stat boosts/bonuses.  The desire to win/brag/wave e-peen?  Those aren't enough incentives to pvp?  What game has more incentive than that?

 

[Nebu]

Do you mean end-game PvE with the Ward gear? 

Yes.

Experience gain that is equal to or often better than PvE.  Realm rank that unlocks PvP gear from vendors and provides stat boosts/bonuses.  The desire to win/brag/wave e-peen?  Those aren't enough incentives to pvp?  What game has more incentive than that?

 

The mechanics were off from a cost-benefit standpoint.  Early players reaching RR80 did it almost entirely by a pve mechanic.  Worldly pvp was generally meaningless and the endgame became a swapping session to maximize gains. 

WoW has better pvp incentives and it's a pve game.  DAoC had better incentives in RA's, relics, DF, and titles.  Hell, your reputation in DAoC was one of the best incentives.  The best squads on a server were known by visual appearance in RvR.  In WAR, everyone looked identical in the endgame and noone stuck around long enough to develop a reputation. 

[Draegan]

For Morf, is that a disagreement with the balanced pvp thing? If so, how do you figure?

Just that PVP is never balanced when classes are involved.

And MMOGs will never have a subscriber base above 550k or so.  

WAR failed because of

- broken class/realm balance
- too much cc
- too much pve required as a gateway to pvp
- lack of an incentive to pvp
- poorly implemented large scale warfare
- engine issues

Aion's only advantage on this list is that of a better engine.  If WAR people are flocking to Aion as the "better game".  They are going to be very disappointed.

 

This argument again.

Aion does not have to much CC.  It does not have broken class or realm balance.  There is not to much PVE to get to the PVP.  There is incredible incentive to PVP.  It's a stable client, so it can have large scale warfare.  I would say Aion tops all of your points.

Like everyone has said, it's just better version of what's come before.  It's not reinventing the wheel at all, which is fine by me.

[DLRiley]

Its funny how the arguments for Aion basically boils down to "It's generic leave it alone". I miss the days when used to yell "It's niche leave it alone". 

[Lantyssa]

I still use that for Fallen Earth.

Unfortunately it's a sad commentary on how the industry works.  If it's niche then you have to be happy it exists.  If it's more of the same you have to be happy it just works.

I'm hoping Guild Wars 2 does both.

[Draegan]

How is my argument for Aion "It's generic, leave it alone?"  It's following in the same vein as DIKU games before it.  It improves upon those in the past to make it it's own game.  It's like saying every RTS game out there is the generic version of Warcraft.

[Mrbloodworth]

How is my argument for Aion "It's generic, leave it alone?"  It's following in the same vein as DIKU games before it.  It improves upon those in the past to make it it's own game.  It's like saying every RTS game out there is the generic version of Warcraft.

Dune really.








 

[Falconeer]

Someone tell me one reason that Aion is a better implementation of MMO pvp than we've already seen in other games?  It's a shiny new grind, I get that. 
 
I'm just not getting the love here. 

Where's the love?
Personally, the part I love is just the Asian style and I am all giddy about fully open world PvP. The two things work very well for me IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE. I don't see Aion as any particular improvement over anything else, just as a game that tickles some of my luvs. To me it's a step back from Conan, but it's ok since Hyboria is lacking new content and I played it for more than a year now.
If I had to review Aion for the masses, I would never mention anything about improvements (or the lack of) over existing MMORPGs, I'd just list its polish, its smoothness and its style along with the pvp-oriented features stressing it is clearly nothing more than a new (meaning new visuals and tricks) well executed open PvP game (and that is kinda rare per se). Other intangibles that made my beta time pleasing are just that, intangibles. But there's plenty in Aion.

Well executed + NEW world + lovely visuals + open world PvP = enough for a buy. Why not? Do you people only buy super-spectacular games? Good for you. I buy some super-spectacular games, and then I buy some less fantastic ones that just have something I particularly like.

I'm just not getting the love here. 

I don't see that much love. Looks to me like everyone at some point said he/she is going to buy it because it's ok to purchase new MMOs from time to time, working ones especially. Many think a MMO succeds only if you are stuck with it for years, but from a customer and player point of view if it can entertain me for a full month I am satisfied, and I call two months a great success. How many "offline" games do you play for more than two months anyway? Or even one?

I am aware of the existance of MMOs you can stay hooked to for months and years. I'll spare you the tirade about taste being the main factor, instead of qualilty. For so many reasons I liked EQ2 more than WoW, and I still do, and you can suck balls if you really like and have nothing beter to do tonight. I'll just state that the average subscription time of any existing MMORPG has seldom too much to do with the amount of innovations such game brought to the genre.

So, Aion isn't bringing many new things to the table. We agree. And? What's your point? Since Aion is "not so innovating" (and assuming that yes some like their MMO fix from time to time, doesn't prevent them from playing offline games too in the meantime), it would be a better idea to play an older MMO instead? 

No one here is going to marry Aion. We are just looking for a new world to explore while whacking people for four to eight weeks. Anything over that is a bonus. What's so hard to understand?

[DLRiley]

Well there is always f2p games that do basically the same thing minus the flying and populated world pvp. I mean really have the mmo audience not evolved past giving money to these types of games that only encourage more money spent on crap like WAR and AoC down the line?

[Simond]

How is my argument for Aion "It's generic, leave it alone?"  It's following in the same vein as DIKU games before it.  It improves upon those in the past to make it it's own game.  It's like saying every RTS game out there is the generic version of Warcraft.

Dune really.








 

Psst. You spelt 'Herzog Zwei' wrong. 

[Falconeer]

Well there is always f2p games that do basically the same thing minus the flying and populated world pvp.

No there are NOT "f2p games that do basically the same thing". There are cheap clones. And the reasons I don't play Lineage 2 cheap clones is similar to the reason why 6-11 million players are not playing WoW cheap clones. Some tangibles and lots of intangibles. And you know this, but until your randomly clownesque existance around here will be tolerated, why should you stop?

I mean really have the mmo audience not evolved past...

I mean really have the fps audience not evolved past...
I mean really have the rts audience not evolved past...
I mean really have the fighting games audience not evolved past...
I mean really have the rpg audience not evolved past...
I mean really have the racing games audience not evolved past...

It's easier to create new genres than really evolve existing ones in a fashion your binary brain would be satisfied with if you decided to plague a different board on f13 other than the MMO one. Have you evolved, Mr. DLRiley? Where are you? Do you play anything other than forum kook? Seems like you only ever post in MMO (to bash them all but Guild Wars) and Politics. If evolution means not playing at all and bantering all day(s) like a digital barfly, then this 1974 old boy who grew up with Pong and Space Invaders is completely happy with de-evolution.

Videogaming and players will keep on evolving regardless you, Aion, WoW and the 100th iteration of the same gameplay model. Street Fighter IV and Tekken VI aren't keeping the industry behind, and differentiating your playing time between cool new deserving things (which I buy, a lot) and older theories of fun is not something you can make people feel guilty about.

[Feverdream]

The only reason I will be playing Aion is based on the possibility that it has a team-focused PvP endgame, no or virtually no requirement to do endgame PvE, and that stuff like the crafting system is implemented with PvP in mind rather than PvE.  I find the flying part fairly annoying, to be honest, but I think I can tolerate it.

If Warhammer or Age of Conan had worked out, I wouldn't be giving Aion more than a passing glance.  And if rated BGs in the WoW expansion turn out to be more fun than Aion's PvP, then I'll just go back to WoW until someone freaking figures out how to build a decent PvP MMO.  I'd say I am interested in Guild Wars 2, but at this point I'm just too jaded and cynical to give a damn about any company's new gaming sensation.  It's all just hype, pretty promises and snake oil salesmen until proven otherwise.

[DLRiley]

Falc seem, no you purposely forget, that unlike the other genres you listed mmo's aren't fun. Well maybe I'm just too old to play one and not interested in paying for AIM with 3d models. Maybe if EQ was fun 9 years ago then I wouldn't mind the endless clones it spawned 9 years later. At the very least don't insult me expect me to pay for EQ9 when obviously you haven't learned any of the lessons that made EQ 1-4 suck. Hence why EQ the Free Version, doesn't sound mildly retarded if you really wish to pound your face into a wall while getting your dick kicked into your stomach. Hence why I say has the mmo crowd really haven't evolved considering that millions that do mmo's are pretty damn tired of EQ9. But I guess this is like telling Charlie Brown not to attempting to kick the football every Thanksgiving.

[kondratti]

Falc seem, no you purposely forget, that unlike the other genres you listed mmo's aren't fun. Well maybe I'm just too old to play one and not interested in paying for AIM with 3d models.

So why are you in this forum?  I hate single player games, that's why I dont even visit the relevant f13 forum.

Are you like one of those dumb fucks with no life who troll Justin Timberlake forums?

Seriously, I am just not getting why you post here if you hate MMOs.

[DLRiley]

Stuff like the SWOTR and Dust is why I post here really. Eventually someone will make a half decent mmo that is worthy of subscription and doesn't ends up crashing and burning because it really thought it was shiner then the last mmo everyone else is playing. I should post in the browser based game more often really.