Aion (Open Beta, Launch Day Info too!)

[Margalis]

I don't see how this could possibly approach the initial box sales of AOC or WAR, considering that those games were promoted heavily for months and this game barely at all. I'd say 1/3 to a 1/4 of the box sales of WAR.

[Kageru]

Good word of mouth amongst the MMO community probably goes further than an advertising campaign. What is discussed positively by people you game with, or is the place they are heading next, carries a lot more gravity than a banner on the commercial (/spit) MMO sites. I'd say 7-800k and with a better retention profile than War. I haven't seen much information on the high end game but I suspect it's going to hit Warhammer, L2 and Darkfall a lot harder than WoW.

I'm mostly interested in seeing the point at which low population causes warhammer to failure cascade, I'd not personally play a game that has a PvP focused end-game.

[01101010]

I am slightly apprehensive about this whole "cultural translation" part of the story. I don't want cheeseburgers and Taylor Swift crap gaying up my fantasy world. Not that they will run that deep with NA culture, but still it is a "fantasy" and it will only be soon enough that all the quests and rewards will be plopped into some database on the net - one click away. You have a quest with two choices, one gets you the uber axe of wrath, the other gets you a wood chopper. As was said before, of course the RPG world is going to go the route of the better axe, but at least make a little mystery in getting it. Why not just take the woodchopper ot and be done with it. Bad choices are there for a reason. God forbid we learn from our mistakes...

Really though, it all boils down to how you are going to dress up your virtual doll and run around somebody else's world in your new clothes.

[Koyasha]

What's culturalized content?

They gave example of a quest which involves something like going in the woods in search for axe for a lumberjack, and then encountering a stranger who gives the players two choices concerning that axe. This quest was apparently based on Korean folk tale, and being familiar with that tale would allow the player to know consequences of either choice they'd take. A player unfamiliar with it would be instead picking blindly.

If that was supposed to be an example of content that only makes sense in Korean culture it's a bad one considering that quest is based on the Aesop's Fable known as the Golden Axe or the Woodsman and the Axe.  I ran into it in the chinese beta and it was pretty much the same story I'd heard years ago in an Aesop's fables book.

So the correct choice is to kill Death=Adder? 

Without knowing the specifics of the quest, if you are looking for something and are offered a choice between that item and a better version of the same item, the RPG-trained player will probably pick the better item. Why would they take the Wooden Axe when they can get the Axe +1? Most RPGs have item progression as a major feature.

The other example I've heard of is a quest where familial respect for one's father is the correct choice in Korea; good luck translating that to the NA market.

The choice given was the same one from the fable.  Basically you yank an axe out of a tree and it goes flying and falls in the pond.  Somebody shows up to offer it back to you.  First you're offered the golden axe, then a silver axe, and finally the real axe that fell in the pond.  It was blatantly obvious to me that I should refuse the golden and silver axes, because it was clear that the choice was a test of honesty, and if I lie and say that I dropped a gold axe it's being dishonest.  Only an idiot that didn't bother to read the quest text or think about the choice could fail to see that the 'correct' answer to the test is to be honest, not greedy.  You're not offered an axe +1, it's a gold axe clearly noting the monetary greed that's present in the fable.

I'm not saying that some changes aren't necessary, that other example was a good one that probably would be confusing.  Just the axe example is a very poor one since even without being based on an aesop's fable, it's pretty clearly a test of honesty.

[Numtini]

Well as long as the real axe was the top quest option. You always choose the top one, that's how it's designed so you don't have to read it? right? (I confess, the other day I ran into one of the very few quests in EQ2 that doesn't work this way and click through'd it three times before actually reading it.)

I think the cultural translation is an interesting gamble. Will Aion attract NA gamers from the AAA gaming crowd who expect a fully realized western game or will it attract the Asian wannabee crowd that generally plays import games who will want it to be true to its forms because for them its a way of cultural exploration (sad and pathetic, but cultural exploration nonetheless) and who puzzle over Korean sites anticipating every new patch and screaming bloody murder if the NA version more than a few weeks behind.

Quick edit: I got the client up and running and the gameguard thing. Bad idea. Not because its good or bad on its own, but it sends the message to players "hi, I am a cheap piece of crap Korean grinder."

[Falconeer]

Something I always wanted to know: does Gameguard actually works? I mean, are Gameguard games really free of cheaters?

[Numtini]

Something I always wanted to know: does Gameguard actually works? I mean, are Gameguard games really free of cheaters?

From Grenado Espada I'd say no it doesn't. There were lots of macrobots even though you had a 90% ability to afk without them.

[Draegan]

Does anyone have any actual information on the game to report, as opposed to meta-complaints about how its a diku?

You can ask me any question you like.  I played the game for 20 hours or so (maybe more) and got through the first three PVE areas up to level 20.

What kind of report card are you looking for?

[Koyasha]

Something I always wanted to know: does Gameguard actually works? I mean, are Gameguard games really free of cheaters?

No.  Not in the slightest.

Edit: Ok, that's probably an exaggeration, it might do something, but not from my perspective.  There may be some cheats that would be even more possible without it, but I doubt it, especially considering you can bypass Gameguard entirely so it doesn't even run.

[Numtini]

I left my little minions in GE up AFKing during the day and when I removed in, it blocked VNC from moving the mouse, but not logmein. Or vice versa. But it did block one. And it didn't block the other.

[Falconeer]

especially considering you can bypass Gameguard entirely so it doesn't even run.

What? Seriously?! Haha!

[Koyasha]

especially considering you can bypass Gameguard entirely so it doesn't even run.

What? Seriously?! Haha!

I don't know about all gameguard games, but I know there's workarounds for Lineage II and Aion.  I imagine any others that are popular enough have them too.  Gameguard screws up Google Chrome's ability to browse, so I discovered these while searching for a way to fix that.

[AcidCat]

Its really hard to throw away literally hundreds of days /played in one game to go to another, unless that new game has something REALLY great to offer me.

Honestly I think it's kind of the opposite for me. The hundreds of days /played is EXACTLY why I am done with WoW and ready for something different with similar gameplay. I still enjoy the basic quest/loot/levelup gameplay but I just can't fathom making yet another WoW character and going through the same zones and quests I've done over and over again only to get to an endgame based largely on raiding for which I have no interest.

Really all I need is a new setting, new quests, new abilities, etc. I'm fine that the gameplay is largely similar. A PvP-focused endgame is just bonus.

Anyway, I went ahead and preordered on Amazon.

[Falconeer]

Seriously, what is /played worth? I thought the point of gaming was having fun, not growing a beard.

[Nebu]

I thought the point of gaming was having fun, not growing a beard.

New to MMO's? 

(you know I'm kidding)

[AcidCat]

Seriously, what is /played worth? I thought the point of gaming was having fun, not growing a beard.

Yeah, I've never thought of my played time as any kind of "investment."

[Numtini]

The only sense I've ever thought about an investment in an MMO was in terms of social investment--that I'd rather be playing something else at the moment, but I've worked my way into a social network that lets me raid or whatever and if I leave this, it will be difficult to be able to go back to it.

I have 78 days played, I have a rune etched helm and I'm mastered out?! Omg I can't leave EQ2--no. Never thought that.

"I have a main tank group healer position, three nights a week early evenings, with people who are adults, if I give this up when I'm tired of the new shiny, it could take six months or more to find that kind of a situation again" -- that's been a concern more than once.

[Draegan]

Its really hard to throw away literally hundreds of days /played in one game to go to another, unless that new game has something REALLY great to offer me.

Honestly I think it's kind of the opposite for me. The hundreds of days /played is EXACTLY why I am done with WoW and ready for something different with similar gameplay. I still enjoy the basic quest/loot/levelup gameplay but I just can't fathom making yet another WoW character and going through the same zones and quests I've done over and over again only to get to an endgame based largely on raiding for which I have no interest.

Really all I need is a new setting, new quests, new abilities, etc. I'm fine that the gameplay is largely similar. A PvP-focused endgame is just bonus.

These are my thoughts.  I personally don't get incredibly attached to a character in an MMOG.  I view my characters as tools to play and enjoy the game.  After I play a while and get bored I either quit or start a new one.  Once I quit and MMOG and come back some time later I very rarely play an old character, I almost always play a new one.

"I have a main tank group healer position, three nights a week early evenings, with people who are adults, if I give this up when I'm tired of the new shiny, it could take six months or more to find that kind of a situation again" -- that's been a concern more than once.

I can understand that as well.  If you're locked into a social setting with people you like then sometimes it makes a dull, old game more entertaining.

[Ghambit]

The group is more important than the game.  Always.
As cynical as we are about gaming and MMOs these days, the above still holds true.

Since f13 isnt a guild-based site though, I'd like to say most people here are a little less group-biased toward their game reviews.

[Threash]

Someone please explain how the pvp works on this.  I read something about having 3 sides but one being npcs? pvpvr is what they called it.

[Malakili]

Its really hard to throw away literally hundreds of days /played in one game to go to another, unless that new game has something REALLY great to offer me.

Honestly I think it's kind of the opposite for me. The hundreds of days /played is EXACTLY why I am done with WoW and ready for something different with similar gameplay. I still enjoy the basic quest/loot/levelup gameplay but I just can't fathom making yet another WoW character and going through the same zones and quests I've done over and over again only to get to an endgame based largely on raiding for which I have no interest.

Really all I need is a new setting, new quests, new abilities, etc. I'm fine that the gameplay is largely similar. A PvP-focused endgame is just bonus.

Anyway, I went ahead and preordered on Amazon.

I understand what you are saying, I just find that starting from scratch in new games is incredibly laborious and not particularly fun the vast majority of the time.  For me its like this: "Why give up my mage that has a full compliment of abilities, spells, etc, for a mage that has 1 or 2 spells"  Sure the content is different, but its really just a change of scenery most of the time.  Like I said, if a game plays VERY different, then I'm interested, because I'm not doing the same things I did in another game, just with differently named spells and quests.  For instance, a game like Global Agenda or APB piques my interest,  where as a game like Aion seems like it would be nice if I wasn't already playing another diku. 

ETA: The group thing is also extremely important to me.  I am in a really excellent guild in WoW that I've been a member of for nearly 4 years now.  I've stopped raiding a long time ago, but I am still welcome with open arms in the guild, and there are plenty of people who still do the non-raid content on a regular basis.  Having this sort of grouping available to me is a huge thing that keeps me going back to WoW, even when I suspend my account for a few months here and there.  The social aspect is huge for me, and I've never played an MMO past my first month that I wasn't playing with a group of friends.

[AcidCat]

The group is more important than the game.  Always.
As cynical as we are about gaming and MMOs these days, the above still holds true.

Since f13 isnt a guild-based site though, I'd like to say most people here are a little less group-biased toward their game reviews.

Yeah, at heart I am a soloist in these games. Even in WoW, I was a guildhopper. I did have a few really good groups of people I played with at varying times, but then I'd take a break, come back and start a new character and find an entirely different group of people. Since I never got into raiding I never really got into a mode where I depended on guildmates to do what I wanted in the game - they were just a purely social aspect that kind of rode alongside me playing the game itself mostly solo.

I just find that starting from scratch in new games is incredibly laborious and not particularly fun the vast majority of the time. 

As an alt-oholic I find starting from scratch highly enjoyable. Just not when you're doing the same quests and visiting the same places for the 5th time.

[BitWarrior]

Someone please explain how the pvp works on this.  I read something about having 3 sides but one being npcs? pvpvr is what they called it.

Specifically addressing your question regarding the mystery of "3 sides", I previously had read a comment which probably answers your question: http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=279522

c/p for the lazy:

The PvP battle balance system, War should have had this, because this is really awesome, if one side out numbers the other in an unfair way a third faction controlled by NPC flys into the abyss, these will fly out of a huge battle ship and lay the smack down to every body in the zone! they have the best AI i have seen in npc mobs as they seem to work in teams, they pretty much even the odds of an unfair siege but be warned, they are on no one side and will attack the defenders as well as the attackers!

[Draegan]

Someone please explain how the pvp works on this.  I read something about having 3 sides but one being npcs? pvpvr is what they called it.

It's Elyos vs. Asmodians or Light vs. Dark.

You fight in the Abyss which is in the middle.

There is a NPC third side called the Balour that are supposed to work as a balancer though I don't know if it works really.  Once int he abyss you fight over fortresses.  This allows you to get into some PVE areas and stuff.  So you're PVPing for PVE or PvPvE.

That's a quick synopsis.

[Numtini]

There is a NPC third side called the Balour that are supposed to work as a balancer though I don't know if it works really.  Once int he abyss you fight over fortresses.  This allows you to get into some PVE areas and stuff.  So you're PVPing for PVE or PvPvE.

Anyone know is that like a single keep open RVR zone or is it a battleground with a beginning and ending?

[Draegan]

I'm pretty sure it's open.  But let me find some details for you because that's a good question and I'm not 100% positive.

[Falconeer]

Not just open keeps. I heard something about pvp "relics", something that tickled my DAoC friends' weak spot. Problem is publicity stunts are one thing, while finding trustable informations is a different matter.

[Draegan]

Here's what I got.  You have three different levels of the Abyss.  The "higher" the level the harder.  You can take forts and keep them and the open up vendors etc and other resources.  Initially they are kept by the NPC races and you have to group up to take them.  Reports have the lower ones taking single groups and the higher ones taking raid sizes groups.

The next part is unclear but I want to say there are windows in which you can take PC captured fortresses.  Some say they are always open (from an interview in 2007) to they have a 2 hour window once a day and it's random (which doesn't sound right).  I can't find a clear answer just yet.

There are also vortexes that you can enter and pop into the other sides leveling areas and PVP in there.

Rewards are Abyss points which are used to get gear etc.

[tmp]

Not just open keeps. I heard something about pvp "relics", something that tickled my DAoC friends' weak spot. Problem is publicity stunts are one thing, while finding trustable informations is a different matter.

There's some (though not much) info at aionsource wiki -- the Abyss and PvP though the latter has mostly speculations.

the Relics/artifacts are apparently sort of control points (31 in total) around Fortresses located in the Abyss. Each of them provides some specific effect to the side who controls it.

[Draegan]

Siege Information Tutorial

[Brogarn]

Siege Information Tutorial

Am I seeing another raid PvE mobs to take PvP objectives game like WAR? Or am I misunderstanding what I'm watching?

[Draegan]

Initially it's all PVE but you can compete against the other side while doing it.  The other side can race you, fuck you over or whatever.

After that I *think* you may have NPC's to assist you though I'm not sure at all on that.

All reports beginning to end takes 20-30 minutes on some of the lower level forts.

[Mrbloodworth]

I'm sorry. I didn't watch the whole thing. But why are they fuckin with the gate? why not just fly over?

[Draegan]

Apparently there are shields or something in place.

[Numtini]

My five minute review is very positive. it's your standard bunny bashing, but the client is responsive, everything is reasonably well laid out, character control has a good feel, and with everything turned to max it looks pretty damned good and I'm getting over 100fps.