Passing the time in WoW

[Azaroth]

I feel very defensive because you said my Ret pallies were bad, but did not read your post.

Also, a couple people on EJ theorizing that Ret DPS will be okay does not replace hard WWS data from PTR DPS tests, or make up for the fact that GC said that Ret DPS was very low but would not be fixed for 3.1.

But ok sure, I'll make a jerkass post.

[Ingmar]

Righto. I will just file this one in the very large "people can't be objective about their own class" file and never speak of it again. 

[Azaroth]

Because being shown constantly at the bottom of WWS tests and having GC publicly state that Ret DPS is very low on PTR means my DPS is the tops. When they follow that up by nerfing the spec more, I should rejoice.

If not, I'll have some guy on F13 who knows nothing about the class try to speak down to me.







 

[Sjofn]

HOW COULD THEY NERF LEFT AXE

[K9]

I still love my guild's Ret Paladin because he's a good player.

[Montague]

Because being shown constantly at the bottom of WWS tests and having GC publicly state that Ret DPS is very low on PTR means my DPS is the tops. When they follow that up by nerfing the spec more, I should rejoice.

If not, I'll have some guy on F13 who knows nothing about the class try to speak down to me.

 

As a Ret player since 2004 I feel ya. I saw the writing on the wall and cancelled in February.

The bubble is impossible to balance for PVP, at least by Blizzard's standards, which are "what do the Hardcore pro players think?" Kalgan himself admitted as such in a forum post a year or so ago. The last thing competitive PVP players want to deal with is a character who can both kill you and go immune to everything for 12 seconds. That's not "skill", so lolret is forever relegated to the 1800-2000's, if you're lucky/good.

[Simond]

Blizzards on the 'nerf hybrids' part of the class balance cycle, that's all. Retadins lose DPS, DKs get their "Oh shit!" tanking buttons nerfed (again), etc etc. Meanwhile warrior DPS gets buffed. Expect the next season of arena to be dominated by warrior/druid teams (again).

[Setanta]

Dear ret pallies - welcome back to the fold that is Shaman.

See what Blizzard did is they took you to the mountain, showed you all that is wonderful and then dropped you back into hell where us hybrids belong (druids excluded - seriously, what did druids perform on the devs to get so much love).

It's kind of like pulling wings off flies - the devs love torturing us.

I find it hard to believe that the two worst classes on release (warlocks and hunters) got sorted out right through to WotLK (although hunter seems to be a bit meh and lock is great as SL/SL/FG but not much else) whereas the two that were considered to be OP on release (because of frostshock and bubble lolz) are still never addressed properly and are more likely to cop a reactive nerf than a decent set of balanced buffs.

It's sad that what I do is log into WoW on EVE downtime, see if anything is happening, realise I'm as geared as can be (Naxx 25 5 piece set plus 25/10/badge gear) and log out again. I cant even be stuffed getting my elemental set to go with my enhance set because 90% of it dropped in naxx 10 before I got my full enhance set :D I refuse to grind achievements - it's bad enough my fishing is 421 :D

Wow is stale and stagnant and needs a kick in the butt

[Hindenburg]

seriously, what did druids perform on the devs to get so much love).

Oh, to be young and oblivious to the plight of others again...

[Ingmar]

I am going to need a bigger file.

[K9]

Wow is stale and stagnant and needs a kick in the butt

You will never recapture that first-time feeling.

[Setanta]

seriously, what did druids perform on the devs to get so much love).

Oh, to be young and oblivious to the plight of others again...

Not so young by a long shot and if you can explain how Druids are the worst of the hybrids I'd be interested.

BTW - I ran a druid alt to 70 (T4 tank/feral dps geared only though) in BC. It was infinitely more fun than my then 70 Shaman or (very casual) Pally and certainly more versatile. Sure there's some changes happening to druids, sure they reduce the abilities they once had, but they were top of the hybrids in BC and are still strong in WotLK to date.

If the devs had put the same effort into Shaman and to a lesser extent Paladins, those classes wouldn't be in as bad a state.

Having said that, the rubbish that Blizzard tosses out that hybrids shouldn't be as powerful as other classes is crap. All 3 hybrid classes tend to have to make major investments in one tree and lose viability in the others as they spec up. They should be rewarded for that.

Don't get me wrong, I love the burst my shaman can put out and they are certainly better than they were in vanilla, but the class could do with having 1/10th of the effort that druids have had put into them from BC onwards.

[Merusk]

Having said that, the rubbish that Blizzard tosses out that hybrids shouldn't be as powerful as other classes is crap. All 3 hybrid classes tend to have to make major investments in one tree and lose viability in the others as they spec up. They should be rewarded for that.

They stopped tossing that out when WOTLK was running up to release.  In fact, there was tons of bitching from the pure classes that the hybrids were so strong, and Blizz stated flat-out that there was no reason the Hybrids shouldn't be competitive when they spec into their respective healing/ tanking/ dps trees.  Now, granted, actions speak louder than words, but that philosophy of design is supposed to have been abandoned.   

ENH shaman do pretty damn well once geared out, but the Elem and Resto trees seem to be in the shitter atm.

[Sjofn]

Man, I have gotten the exact opposite impression from the shamans I know, that ENH sucks but the other two trees are good. Elemental in particular is like the forgotten-but-secretly-awesome tree, I've seen them put up some hilariously good numbers in 25's (we don't really have an elemental shaman in our 10 mans, Ingmar is the only one who plays one in our guild and he's usually tanking).

[Hindenburg]

Not so young by a long shot and if you can explain how Druids are the worst of the hybrids I'd be interested.

Are? They arguably were. You said "did".
Pre-AQ it was either resto or lolshadowcraft. PVP they made.... good flag runners, and that was it.

[Chimpy]

Are? They arguably were. You said "did".
Pre-AQ it was either resto and lolshadowcraft. PVP they made.... great flag runners, and that was it.

I fixed the parts you did not emphasize enough :D

[WindupAtheist]

So I was looking at this thread, and thinking about how well I was able to derail and kill some nascent religion-fight threads on the politics forum by posting pictures of Buddha. With that in mind, if you guys don't lay off this WoW General Forum level of "my class sucks/sucked more than yours baaaww" crap, I'm going to have no choice but to start posting screenshots of UO roleplayer events.

Vigilante justice FTW.

[Rasix]

No, no you're not.

And for the record, I love both of my classes.  Elemental shaman and unholy DK.  I'm never going to get the level where some of the gripe worthy contentions come to light.  Every bad DPSer I've encountered is just a bad or under geared player.

[WindupAtheist]

I'm going to have no choice...

No, no you're not.

So we agree that I would not have a choice? Because I have some lovely pictures of this wedding held in the hedge maze... 

/snark

And for the record, I love both of my classes.  Elemental shaman and unholy DK.  I'm never going to get the level where some of the gripe worthy contentions come to light.  Every bad DPSer I've encountered is just a bad or under geared player.

This. One of the benefits of not bothering with Arena and raiding is that I just don't have to give a shit about this sort of thing. My ret paladin feels pretty awesome, and I'm stoked about JotW getting set back to 25%. And they're putting a bunch of the formerly Arena-only stuff on honor vendors, so I will finally be able to replace the last of my savage saronite set. With PURPLES. Oh man I will kick so much ass in AV and heroics!!1!

Being a lolnewbcasualbad is the most fun I've ever had in WoW. I can do whatever bullshit amuses me, get gear upgrades from time to time, and walk around with the delusion that everything is awesome and just getting awesomer.

[Azaroth]

Having said that, the rubbish that Blizzard tosses out that hybrids shouldn't be as powerful as other classes is crap. All 3 hybrid classes tend to have to make major investments in one tree and lose viability in the others as they spec up. They should be rewarded for that.

They stopped tossing that out when WOTLK was running up to release.  In fact, there was tons of bitching from the pure classes that the hybrids were so strong, and Blizz stated flat-out that there was no reason the Hybrids shouldn't be competitive when they spec into their respective healing/ tanking/ dps trees.  Now, granted, actions speak louder than words, but that philosophy of design is supposed to have been abandoned.   

ENH shaman do pretty damn well once geared out, but the Elem and Resto trees seem to be in the shitter atm.

FYI, they officially changed their tune again a couple months ago. Now it's "Hybrid DPS will be designed to do less than 'Pure' classes". At some point it was implied that the difference would be 5%. When it turned out that the gap was pretty much WAY more than that in all cases, GC said they changed their mind about that too.

As a Ret player since 2004 I feel ya. I saw the writing on the wall and cancelled in February.

The bubble is impossible to balance for PVP

I could go on for an hour about bubble alone, let alone everything else about the class and what's been done to it since '04.

Point is that when Ret was crazyamazing before WOTLK, I leveled one specifically because I always WANTED (read: tried) to play a Pally, and right at that point in time it was both fun and super easy to level. I knew very well that it'd be nerfed into oblivion before too long based entirely on the history of the way the class has been handled, but didn't plan to play long enough for that to matter.

[Sheepherder]

-This news, equaling a fair net drop in DPS, is shortly thereafter followed by many little stealthy math nerfs, equaling out to being nerfed about as hard as Fury with the 10% Titan's Grip nerf. Just strategically placed, oddly enough, to harm sustained DPS. Again, exactly what they said they were not going to do.

-Deciding that Ret needs less PvP viability instead, burst of judgements is heavily nerfed. (I haven't kept up on this one since I've quit. Only post I've read claims that SoB crits around 4.5k now, whereas a good crit for me when I played was 11.5k... I'd say I can't imagine the nerf being that insane, but this is Blizzard so I'm not entirely sure).

-Rets exclaim WTF? Other players happy, Ret reduced to LOLret where it belongs. Azaroth stops paying people to put cock in ass, spams F13.

Seal of Blood/Seal of the Martyr: The damage done by these two seals has been increased but the damage done by their judgements decreased. The balance is now roughly 60% from either seal and 40% from a judgement on total damage done. The total damage done should be roughly the same.Please note that the 3.0.9 tooltips had incorrect values for the damage done, but the tooltips should be much more accurate in 3.1.0.

Exorcism: Now can be used on any target and has a 100% chance to be a critical strike when used on Undead and Demons.

Divine Storm: Damage increased.

Fanaticism reduced to 3 ranks for 6/12/18% bonus and 10/20/30% threat reduction.

Righteous Vengeance reduced to 3 ranks for 10/20/30%. The damage done by this talent no longer receives modifications from effects that increase or decrease damage done by a percentage. Now triggered by Crusader Strike as well.

Sanctified Seals: Renamed Sanctity of Battle. Now also increases damage done by Exorcism and Crusader Strike by 5/10/15%.

Stop crying if you're not willing to read notes.  Your "I don't care anymore, I'm just going to whine about it" act is fucking stupid.

-Awful Ret performance and representation in Arena (less than 2%) actually acknowledged. GC states publicly that Crusader Strike may receive a silence.

-Silence instead given to Arms Warriors. Who may also now break Paladin bubbles.

No silence has been added as of last patch note revision.  Ret performance in arenas is a stupid fucking argument, particularly when you segue into how it's unfair that arms warriors are getting hypothetical ret toys that, incidentally, don't exist and cannot be tracked back to a blue post using MMO Champion's wonderful little utility.

[Azaroth]

You effectively just (partially) repeated what I've been saying with those patch notes.

Here's what you just posted:

Judgement burst nerfed heavily. Exorcism available on all targets. Bunch of math nerfs (RV, Fanaticism, etc). CS buffed.

Is that not exactly what I've been saying? Maybe you're pointing toward the fact that Crusader Strike got a 5/10/15% damage buff.

Do you know what Crusader Strike is?

Generally, it accounts for around 5% of my DPS. I know math is hard, but try to figure that one out.

And why are you swearing at me about Ret arena performance? It was great, six months ago. It is now at under 2% representation. Perhaps you're getting it mixed up with Holy, which is very popular and dominant in arena. I don't know.

Frankly, I don't care. Arguing about WoW with forum troglodytes such as yourself after I've quit is well below chewing fucking glass and voluntary anal penetration on my list of priorities. You either need to read the posts you're attacking and proceed to not waste my fucking time, or alternatively you should look into sitting down in front of a warm, steaming bowl of shut the cunt up.

And just for you, I spent my own time digging up shit that you (Who the fuck are you again?) decided to randomly attack me about. So here:

## Crusader Strike is now An instant strike that causes 110% weapon damage. In addition, if you strike a player while they are casting, their magical damage and healing will be reduced by 50% for 6 sec.

Please test these changes on the PTR once it is available again before providing any feedback. Also please follow the guidelines in the sticky at the top of this forum in regards to providing properly formatted feedback while including testing date. Thank you.

V

Unrelenting Assault: Now also increases the damage of Overpower and Revenge by 10/20%, and causes Overpower (when used to attack a casting target) to decrease the effectiveness of all the target’s non-physical damage and healing by 25/50% for 6 seconds. Tooltip and visual updated.

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/13/8136495630-310-ptr-patch-notes.html

Now go have a coke and a smile.

[Oban]

I have been working on Classic reputations, halfway to exalted with the Argent Dawn and no closer to obtaining the Baron's mount.

[Sheepherder]

Judgement burst nerfed heavily. Exorcism available on all targets. Bunch of math nerfs (RV, Fanaticism, etc). CS buffed.

1. So what?  They should just buff Judgment until your raid DPS is fine and you can one-shot heroic trash?
2. The math nerfs only mean anything if you were expected to spend the same amount of points on less.
3. Exorcism, clearly this is something to complain about.

Here's a WWS.

This guy loses 7% of his Judgment damage, he can gain 2% overall damage from crusade with those points.  Not factoring RV (because that would require an assumption for crit %, though Crusade also scales RV) you are gaining damage by losing points in fanaticism and speccing Crusade.  RV changes are partially a bug fix, warriors are getting the same.  The other aspect of RV is the value : point increase, in addition to an increase in the damage of the abilities that trigger it, and the addition of another triggering ability.

And why are you swearing at me about Ret arena performance? It was great, six months ago. It is now at under 2% representation. Perhaps you're getting it mixed up with Holy, which is very popular and dominant in arena. I don't know.

In case you haven't noticed, arenas are a fucking joke.  You are not the only sad broken person, fuck off with the angst.

Unrelenting Assault: Now also increases the damage of Overpower and Revenge by 10/20%, and causes Overpower (when used to attack a casting target) to decrease the effectiveness of all the target’s non-physical damage and healing by 25/50% for 6 seconds. Tooltip and visual updated.

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/13/8136495630-310-ptr-patch-notes.html

Not a silence, not even directly comparable.  There are a number of effects which are completely undiminished (CC, Invulnerability Effects), channeled and DoT effects and many buffs/procs will be undiminished if casted at appropriate times unless Blizzard drastically modifies spell damage behaviour (because the damage done is calculated as the cast begins and is not updated).

[Paelos]

Seriously guys, WTF are yall talking about here? Pally shit? This was a thread about how you spend your time in WoW waiting for the expansion. It's not about "WAHHHHH MY CLASS IS GETTING NERFED."

There's about a billion threads that have already done that. Guess what? Nobody but your class gives a shit.

Now, back on topic, I've logged in once in about 10 days, and I'm not missing the game at all right now. Even just doing dailies was getting to be more ho-hum than playing Mount and Blade. So I've shifted mostly to that while I wait. I have been keeping my eye on the Ulduar developments and boss posts, but they aren't exactly as informative as I'd like without some hands-on experience in the PTR. I'm unlikely to give that a shot though because I don't really enjoy running raids I'm going to run a ton more and getting nothing out of it.

It does worry me about Blizzard's strategy with their content though. If they have extended periods of time where a larger and larger percentage of the playerbase has completed the content with nothing on the horizon, it will eventually grind on people enough to quit the game. I thought about it during this iteration, but I figured 3 weeks of waiting wasn't that big of a deal. However, if their cycle goes just as slow, the waits could get up to 3 months (which would mean game over).

[Oban]

I think this is why Blizzard has added the hard modes for boss fights and decided that these modes should grant unique titles, gear and occasionally mounts.

Also, I am excited about the new daily quest hub.  My character just dinged exalted with the Argent Dawn, so now it has the swanky Argent Champion title. Started to look in to grinding Cenarion Circle rep, but that looks a bit too painful for me right now.

[Paelos]

CC rep is actually shockingly easy to get. I made over 5k an hour just killing the cultists and turning stacks of 10 sheets at a time to the rep dude for like 500 a pop. Sheets drop all the time and you get 10 rep per kill. Also, you can solo the wandering prophet now, and he carries 7-10 sheets a kill.

[Azaroth]

ur not the only one fucking bad at fuck fuck arenas fuck
NOT A SILENCE etc you use the wrong terminology!
I am an angry little man attacking people at random and carrying arguments on for no reason
I like to prove repeatedly that I didn't actually read your post nor do I understand anything about Paladins, such as my comments about Exorcism and Crusade

Dude... shut up.

[Merusk]

I think this is why Blizzard has added the hard modes for boss fights and decided that these modes should grant unique titles, gear and occasionally mounts.

Also, I am excited about the new daily quest hub.  My character just dinged exalted with the Argent Dawn, so now it has the swanky Argent Champion title. Started to look in to grinding Cenarion Circle rep, but that looks a bit too painful for me right now.

Argent Champion on a Death Knight is unintentionally hilarious.  It's tied for my favorite title with Elder.

CC rep is actually shockingly easy to get. I made over 5k an hour just killing the cultists and turning stacks of 10 sheets at a time to the rep dude for like 500 a pop. Sheets drop all the time and you get 10 rep per kill. Also, you can solo the wandering prophet now, and he carries 7-10 sheets a kill.

True, unless there's some other 80s out there farming rep at the same time.  Then it gets to be a pain in the ass as you wait for respawns at every camp.    That's the main reason I reverted to grinding only factions you can earn in dungeons or via plentiful noob quests for the time being.

[K9]

Is AQ still the best way to farm Brood Rep to Neutral? I'm very close to having every cooking recipe except the chops, so I might have a pop at that if I could get my rep up.

[Xanthippe]

Is AQ still the best way to farm Brood Rep to Neutral? I'm very close to having every cooking recipe except the chops, so I might have a pop at that if I could get my rep up.

Somehow I managed to get the recipes without either Chops or Dig Rat Stew.  (I'm alliance - maybe that matters?).  Dig Rat Stew will be available to alliance in 3.1.  Did you get the Goldthorn Tea recipe again in RFD?  There was some bug that made it drop from people's recipe books after they learned it.

[K9]

Ah this isn't about the achievement for 160 recipes, I just want all of them.

[Fordel]

I have to Echo the "CC Rep went way faster then I thought" bit. My Moonkin can farm like a mother fucker though. 

[Azaroth]

I found AD rep to be quick. I have no idea how many times I ran through that fucking dungeon, but I'd say it generally only took an average of 12-15 minutes each time on my paladin. Undead abilities and AOE in the rotation FTW. Plus I used to run it constantly for the tier 0.5 quest back in the day, so that might have helped (or hindered, since I couldn't stomach more than a few runs at a time).

The biggest thing was the hand-in quests, though. If you're bored and doing the Argent Champion title, seriously go to the AH and put together 30 of the following:

Savage Frond
Dark Iron Scraps
Core of Elements
Crypt Fiend Parts
Bone Fragments

The last two can be collected pretty easily while running UD Strat, however. A very helpful 1000 rep for each quest, though.

[Fordel]

My issue with AD rep was bag space. I could fill my bags up so fast in Strath. With CC rep, the vendors were just a small detour.