f13.net forums - Kaplan at GDC09, mistakes made in quest design.

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July 18, 2025, 03:06:06 PM

we're back, baby

On a related note I completely cleared Storm Peaks, Fjords, the Tundra, Dragonblight, and Zul'Drak before I hit 80. I got about 15 quests into Icecrown before I quit out of annoyance. I still can't make myself go back there and finish the place out despite being interested in all of the lore there.

Sholazar Basin can go fuck itself too, but that's mostly out of my distaste for any zone that resembles Un'Goro Crater or Stranglethorn Vale.

Sholazar is totally redeemed by the bigmouths and evil puppymen though, and that one questline from the Avatar of Freya.
Hell, even the Nessingwary quests aren't that bad - just "go kill x animals of any sort from this list" rather than "go kill thirty tickbird hatchlings" "Okay, now go kill 30 mature tickbirds" "Now go kill thirty elder tickbirds" "Go find Greybeak, destroyer of ticks, and bring me back her gizzards"

Quote from: Fabricated on April 04, 2009, 11:02:26 PM

On my warlock alt, I finished Howling Fjord, Grizzly Hills, and Dragonblight, and got through the Hodir line to the dailies in Storm Peaks, when I hit 80. Didn't set foot in ZD or Sholazar, and only did a few Coldarra quests to get the Nexus line in Borean Tundra.

Rested xp is a wonderful thing.

On my hunter, I finished all of the quests. The last Icecrown quest I had was The Guardians of Corp'rethar, which entailed killing 10 elites (listed as a 5 person quest, knocked it out with another hunter). I fully expected a quest after that, as the entire questlines seemed to be heading toward... something. But it just ended.

I haven't done a few of the dungeons - the annoying ones, apparently, that nobody pugs.

Icecrown was by far the most enjoyable zone since the starter zones the first time you played them for me. Zul'Drak and Grizzly Hills were the ones I enjoyed the least. Scholozar and Dragonblight were probably joint 2nd in enjoyability.

-Borean Tundra has a much simpler layout(fewer rivers and mountains) than Howling Fjord and fewer group quests. It sports the single worst quest chain in the game for people that aren't shaman, DKs, or alchemists/obsessive hoarders/.

-Scholozar is a very fast and efficient zone. It's quite enjoyable to rip through. Its token vehicle quest requires a lot of patience.

-Dragonblight gets a fifty dkp MINUS for including a quest that you shouldn't complete if you want to complete the zone as fast as possible. I found it to not flow well; there were a few cases where I found myself back to a quest hub again from another bread crumb quest elsewhere with more quests to do. IIRC, it was due to that big group of group quests. The Wrathgate event is incredibly boring your second time.

-Grizzly Hills is pretty and and with way the fuck too much running. The bread crumb quests are OK at leading you around - except for the PVP area to the SW. I'm pretty sure there is no hint to go there.

-Zul'drak's color scheme is depressing. I feel like I should pop a couple zoloft before I fly through it. Its vehicle quest is horribly unfun and some of the early quests are incredibly aggravating.

-Icecrown is a good zone with a number of fun and innovative quests, but doesn't flow well at all. There are breadcrumb quests, but they aren't very rationally sorted. The worst offender is that a shitload of quests are locked behind you completing...I think it's a breadcrumb quest that starts inside a mountain that you only go to as a part of another quest. I don't even want to think about how horrible this zone would be without an epic flyer.

-Storm Peaks is one of the best designed zones of the expansion. It leads you around fairly well once you get past that the bread crumb to the next quest hub after the first one requires you VERY thoroughly comb the area to the east. You get some form of quick travel between most of the quest hubs. The quest chain where you fly back and forth to whathisname is kind of aggravating evenw iht an epic flyer.

The Wintergarde quests are awesome every time.

The implied sequencing of Fjord--->Dragonblight or Borean----->Dragonblight can get very screwed up if you do either of the starter zones partially and skip between them (perhaps to join up with guildies, etc.): you can end up with some bizarre pockets of quests that are very palpably out of order. I dealt with the Taunka refugees in Dragonblight before I dealt with them *before* they became refugees from Borean.

I think the implied route is either Borean -> Dragonblight -> Grizzly/Zul'Drak or Fjord -> Grizzly -> Dragonblight/Zul'drak. However either starter zone can easily get you to 73-74 if completed fully, and by this point most people have heard how awesome wrathgate is and head to Dragonblight. I know if you come from Borean as I did (skipped Fjord on my first toon) the quest hubs make a pretty logical path around the zone. If you come from the Fjord you get thrown straight into the wrathgate, which sends you all over the place, and afterwards I guess the zone seems disorganised.

Quote from: K9 on April 07, 2009, 12:40:35 PM

It isn't Fjord->Grizzly->Dragonblight but rather Fjord->Dragonblight->Grizzly; the breadcrumb quests in Fjord send you directly to Wintergarde Keep for Alliance at least (and fly you right past Grizzly Hills). Then there's a later breadcrumb quest in Dragonblight that sends you to Grizzly Hills; there's no logical path from Fjord to Grizzly Hills, as the starter quest hub is smack in the middle of the zone with no directions sending you there unless you take the intro flight from Dragonblight. I would definitely agree that the zone transition is handled better going Borean->Dragonblight, though.

Again, comments apply to Alliance only, haven't done any of it on the Horde side yet.

Quote from: Gobbeldygook on April 05, 2009, 08:47:26 AM

-Zul'drak's color scheme is depressing. I feel like I should pop a couple zoloft before I fly through it. Its vehicle quest is horribly unfun and some of the early quests are incredibly aggravating.

Don't forget the lovely Drakuru quest, which is both griefable (a disguised player can kill your troll) and is completely out of place unless you've done Grizzly Hills and DTK before it.

I hate that stupid zone.

Quote from: Ingmar on April 07, 2009, 01:27:07 PM

Again, comments apply to Alliance only, haven't done any of it on the Horde side yet.

For the Horde, there's a breadcrumb going from New Agamand in Fjord to Venomspite in Draongblight. Then there's a breadcrumb from Venomspite to Conquest Hold in Grizzly Hills.

I took both of my 80s thru both Fjord and Tundra before I startde on Dragonblight. That let me hit 80 in Zuldrak and then have the final 3 zones to make quest cash. My first 80 has almost finished all the quests and has 13k gold without even trying.