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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  MMOG Discussion  |  Eve Online  |  Topic: 10 KenZoku, 20 BoBR, 30 GOTO 10 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: 10 KenZoku, 20 BoBR, 30 GOTO 10  (Read 27841 times)
Thrawn
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Reply #35 on: March 25, 2009, 11:30:43 AM


"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the Universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Jayce
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Diluted Fool


Reply #36 on: March 25, 2009, 11:36:53 AM

The MoO who used to tank CONCORD and made a high sec gate their own Rancer?
The MoO who used to grief by spamming the grid with containers to create so much gridlag everyone who warped in were dead before they would even load anything?


So what you all are saying is get off my lawn, we had it much worse in my day!   Get off my lawn!

edit: inserted quotes due to someone posting something on-topic in my thread!!

Witty banter not included.
Murgos
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Reply #37 on: March 25, 2009, 11:43:21 AM


"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
Sparky
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Reply #38 on: March 25, 2009, 12:05:49 PM

Anime is cartoons.

Maybe if Kenny hadn't been so damn smug "The batphone still works" and whatnot then CCP wouldn't have felt compelled to distance themselves so quickly and completely.  Undone by their own hubris once again.

Now they get to disband and make Band of Brothers Revolutions like any other bunch of nerds.
Viin
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Reply #39 on: March 25, 2009, 12:21:45 PM

New thread title: KenZoku => BoBR => KenZoku Reloaded

- Viin
Endie
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Reply #40 on: March 25, 2009, 12:29:58 PM

I don't see how this could get any better.

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"What else would one expect of Scottish sociopaths sipping their single malt Glenlivit [sic]?" Jack Thompson
Thrawn
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Reply #41 on: March 25, 2009, 12:34:23 PM

As someone else pointed out, does this mean we killed BoB twice now?

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the Universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
lac
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Reply #42 on: March 25, 2009, 12:49:45 PM

And there I was, hoping for a hint of evil genius from CCP, when all they were doing was kicking Robert while he was down.
Seriously, how can they keep being so awful in handling these things...
Reg
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Reply #43 on: March 25, 2009, 12:51:54 PM

I blame CCP for this entirely. BoB would have been foolish not to try to get their name back with a petition. CCP just proved yet again how completely out of touch they are by actually granting the name change and then reversing themselves.
palmer_eldritch
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Reply #44 on: March 25, 2009, 01:18:50 PM

This is the craziest thing I have seen from customer support in an MMO, and I played EQ when Abashi was around.

Frankly, if I was CCP i would have brazened it out even if I realised I had screwed up and invented some reason for it. You can say that a specific set of circumstances has led you to rethink your policy. There's no shame in that. The only proviso is that they would have had to ensure the policy really did apply to everyone.

I'm not sure that saying Concord would allow any alliance to change its name for a 1bn fee (for example) would have been a problem as far as the community went. It might have been very popular. Of course, I don't know if there are technical restrictions which might cause problems, such as database issues.

I wonder of KenZoku thought about the consequences of getting their name changed. I assume that they petitioned *everything* once they disbanded - perhaps because they honestly weren't sure if it had been done legally or not - and two months later CCP got back to them with the offer of a name change. If Kenny had any sense they would have declined the offer, because it could only bring back memories of T20 etc. It has been known to everyone for a long time now that the original disbanding was within the rules.

I'm saying seriously here, not as a troll or sarcasm, that I have some sympathy with Kenny over this. They are their own worst enemies but in this case CCP helped them screw themselves.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 01:29:59 PM by palmer_eldritch »
Murgos
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Reply #45 on: March 25, 2009, 01:29:45 PM

Of course, in the interim, A Goon had already registered kenZoku and has just had it snatched away from him by CCP (which is fucked up but :ccp:) though he still holds the ticker.  Also, a Goon has now swooped down and registered Band Of Brothers Reloaded {.BOB.}. 

Which begs the question what ticker does Kenny have now?

"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
Simond
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Reply #46 on: March 25, 2009, 01:34:53 PM

CCP have no idea how to do customer service.
Not in the snarky "lol mmog CS amirite  Ohhhhh, I see." sense, but in the genuine "Jesus fucking Christ get some cast-iron 'Thou shalt/Thou shalt not' rules in place and send people on training courses ASAP" sense.

Hell, hire me. I've got my Mary Gober(tm) certificate and mug, I bet I could do a better job right now.

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Trebes
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Reply #47 on: March 25, 2009, 01:36:23 PM

I'll tell you what cracks me up about this whole thing.


What does it say about the state of EVE Online, and I suppose CCP as well, where the Goons are consistently the watchdog against suspected malfeasance?


Yeah, I know the EVE history here, but it's a twisted situation if Goons of all people have to be the server's champions of fair play.
Murgos
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Reply #48 on: March 25, 2009, 01:40:13 PM

Yeah, I know the EVE history here, but it's a twisted situation if Goons of all people have to be the server's champions of fair play.

I think that if you ask the goons themselves they will tell you that they have always stuck strictly and exactly to the literal interpretation of the rules.

"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
Endie
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Reply #49 on: March 25, 2009, 01:44:19 PM

At the time of the moon mineral creation scandal a couple of goons got together to troll our forums that one of them had dabbled.  You should have seen the righteous fury, calls for banning, petitioning etc that exploded on gf.com (it was a good prankeapple)

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Nevermore
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Reply #50 on: March 25, 2009, 01:47:21 PM

Yeah, I know the EVE history here, but it's a twisted situation if Goons of all people have to be the server's champions of fair play.

I think that if you ask the goons themselves they will tell you that they have always stuck strictly and exactly to the literal interpretation of the rules.

Griefing through rules-lawyering.  why so serious?

Over and out.
Pax
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Reply #51 on: March 25, 2009, 02:07:17 PM

Band of Brothers Revolutions is taken, by the way.
By Goons.

Mia san de Borg. Aichan Widastaund keannt's aich ind' Hoar schmian.
sanctuary
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Reply #52 on: March 25, 2009, 02:35:17 PM

Didn't the GM's take personal control over specially buffed concord battleships to take out that gatecamp?


Edit: I hear BoBR is no more, the GM's have reversed the name change. CCP  DRILLING AND MANLINESS   beaten
« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 02:42:44 PM by sanctuary »
Yoru
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Reply #53 on: March 25, 2009, 02:55:23 PM

New thread title: KenZoku => BoBR => KenZoku Reloaded

DRILLING AND MANLINESS
Comstar
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Reply #54 on: March 25, 2009, 03:58:30 PM

CCP made the right call- Operation Righteous Fury by the player base was not going to be ignored this time, though the entire change was of very minor manor. The principle was however completely worth defending. Wounder if my petition got closed now.

I think the post script will be after losing the 49-U battle Kenny will retreat to old goonspace and reform under a new banner. Bet's on what it will be called?

Defending the Galaxy, from the Scum of the Universe, with nothing but a flashlight and a tshirt. We need tanks Boo, lots of tanks!
Simond
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Reply #55 on: March 25, 2009, 04:42:51 PM

If they've got any fucking sense at all, nothing whatsoever to do with a certain line from Henry V.



...so it'll be Band of Brothers Reborn or something equally stupid.  awesome, for real

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
WindupAtheist
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Reply #56 on: March 25, 2009, 04:48:54 PM

I liked that one Ken guy in the linked thread who suggested Disband of Brothers.

"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig."  --  Schild
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Jayce
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Reply #57 on: March 25, 2009, 06:28:42 PM

I liked that one Ken guy in the linked thread who suggested Disband of Brothers.

Taken by goons already  DRILLING AND MANLINESS.

Witty banter not included.
5150
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Reply #58 on: March 26, 2009, 12:03:10 AM

Yeah, I know the EVE history here, but it's a twisted situation if Goons of all people have to be the server's champions of fair play.

I think that if you ask the goons themselves they will tell you that they have always stuck strictly and exactly to the literal interpretation of the rules.

I'd expect nothing less form people that play[ed] Warhammer smiley

Griefing through rules-lawyering.  why so serious?


Didn't the GM's take personal control over specially buffed concord battleships to take out that gatecamp?

GM's killing Dev's.....interesting.

I was playing on and off back then (mining was too boring, I had no idea about PvP and I'm no hardcore mission runner - plus I was always broke for ISK) but I remember that Moo's high sec antics cost the game alot of subs so assuming Moo were the devs (and I wouldn't doubt it) it was simply a PR stunt
ashrik
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Reply #59 on: March 26, 2009, 12:19:56 AM

Can you guys explain the stuff with Mo0 and the T20 thing and all the others mentioned for us who are slow in the head?

Also, do a lot of you still play this game? I've pretty much just started (nearing 2m skill points) and I think my corp is pretty crappy. Do you all play together or not really?
apocrypha
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Reply #60 on: March 26, 2009, 02:29:48 AM

Mo0 was a bit before my time but from what I've heard they were basically a "pirate" corp that specialised in finding innovative ways to grief people in high- and low-sec. Their antics were responsible for a lot of game changes, particularly regarding Concord, sentry guns, etc.

T20 was a CCP dev who was also a member of BoB. He created some tech 2 BPOs using dev powers which he gave to BoB and there was evidence of much cheating by him, in BoBs favour. Massive scandal when it became public, biggest scandal of which was that t20 got to keep his fucking job at CCP despite having been publically exposed as a major cheat. Resulted in a lot of lost subs for CCP no doubt and the game has been viewed by many as inherently unfair and rigged ever since.

As these recent events show, there is possibly still a lot of truth to those views.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
VickeVire
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Reply #61 on: March 26, 2009, 04:56:49 AM

I think the renaming of Kenny was a terrible move from CCPs side. How stupid can you get? Never had any sympathy or good will towards BOB but Goonies are starting to get freaking scary...

The hate BOB/CCP obsession can't be healthy tbh. What happend to "lollers, internet spaceships!" and "lets go have fun and dick around with everyone we can" attitude?
Sir T
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Reply #62 on: March 26, 2009, 05:07:02 AM

I think the renaming of Kenny was a terrible move from CCPs side. How stupid can you get? Never had any sympathy or good will towards BOB but Goonies are starting to get freaking scary...

The hate BOB/CCP obsession can't be healthy tbh. What happend to "lollers, internet spaceships!" and "lets go have fun and dick around with everyone we can" attitude?

You're buying into the Kenny propoganda. Goonswarm were actually relitivly subdued on this one. The amazing thing was that most of the protest was from people outside Goonswarm. The fact that kenny are just going "GOONS GOONS GOONS" on this will piss people off even more. We even had a member of AAA raging about their name change to BOBR on this very forum.

if it was just Goons, CCP would ignore it. It was the fact that it was a general cross eve outcry is the reason that the desision was reversed. it was Kenny vs eve and Kenny lost, but since their only argument was "lol whiney goons" they didn;t deserve to win any argument imo.

Hic sunt dracones.
eldaec
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Reply #63 on: March 26, 2009, 05:32:57 AM

I don't know about that, there were quite a few goons trolling in just the right way to keep the third party posts rolling in without resorting to emorage.

Constantwhine in particular had a bad forum war, staying firmly on the wrong side of the issue and attempting, but failing, to troll goons and looking like an even more whiny twat that usual.


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Pezzle
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Reply #64 on: March 26, 2009, 05:49:21 AM

A large amount of the protest was from goons.  It just so happens that behavior like this annoys cranky old hard liners like myself as well.  It was a bad decision.  CCP needs to pay attention.
Fordel
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Reply #65 on: March 26, 2009, 06:06:14 AM

Well I'm sure there are many, MANY Corps/Alliances/Players that have begged for simple typo fixes and have been denied and told to simply reform. Really, the name change thing probably effected more EVE players then any of the previous Dev scandals.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
VickeVire
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Reply #66 on: March 26, 2009, 07:48:33 AM

I think...*snip*

You're buying into the Kenny propoganda. *snip*

Oh, I'm not gonna argue all other people are whining too. I just want to correct this assessment on your part. I get about 90% of my info from this forum as it usually gives the most important bits out of CAOD forum and all other forums I never visit. Besides here most posters have good perception on what's going on in and out of game

f13 being very goon heavy I should have a more goon-friendly view should I not? My EVE experience has mostly been centered in and around NC space so I my direct involvement is sparse.
Sir T
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Reply #67 on: March 26, 2009, 08:33:24 AM

I think...*snip*

You're buying into the Kenny propoganda. *snip*

Oh, I'm not gonna argue all other people are whining too. I just want to correct this assessment on your part. I get about 90% of my info from this forum as it usually gives the most important bits out of CAOD forum and all other forums I never visit. Besides here most posters have good perception on what's going on in and out of game

f13 being very goon heavy I should have a more goon-friendly view should I not? My EVE experience has mostly been centered in and around NC space so I my direct involvement is sparse.

Ahh fair enough mate. Sorry if I came across a bit harsh :)

Hic sunt dracones.
Moosehands
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Reply #68 on: March 26, 2009, 09:26:56 AM

I liked that one Ken guy in the linked thread who suggested Disband of Brothers.

Svett is a goon, though he's also a legit Kenzoku member.
Goumindong
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Reply #69 on: March 26, 2009, 02:15:45 PM


T20

As these recent events show, there is possibly still a lot of truth to those views.

T20 was the CCP dev in charge of/working on the t2 lottery. Back in the day, he cheated the lottery by giving himself a lot of RP which he then used to claim BPO's. The reason why T20 was so bad wasn't that a dev was cheating for BoB, a dev could cheat for anyone. But it was bad because it was not an isolated incident.

Included in these BPO's were a sabre BPO, and a Spike L BPO. Now, on the face of it now, these don't seem that big a deal. But dictors were never cheap and as an alliance asset the ability to have lots of dictors was a big deal. As well, at the time, the Megathron was the Premier sniping battleship which needed tech 2 guns and tech 2 ammo to operate well. Having a BPO to produce ammo was a large advantage in terms of isk and logistics.

Anyway, T20 joins BoB after cheating the lottery. On the face of it he is just a cheating dev at this point, not a cheating dev in favor of one alliance over another. However, two things happen.

1. T20 becomes the head of BoB's capital fleet. This is probably the biggest grievance that isn't aired. The head of the most important aspect of sov warfare for an alliance had insider information relating to the operation of cap ships and what was around the bend.  A dev in an alliance is no big deal, random plebs cannot influence alliance activities. But when that dev is leading a major part of it, then you've got a big problem. Even if T20 was an honest and upright guy it would be hard to separate his "player acceptable" knowledge with his "Dev knowledge".

But T20 was not an honest and upright guy. BoB knew T20 was a dev at that point and were basically in collusion with him to grant insider knowledge. Had they known he was a dev and not given him director status and refused the use of his assets, it would have likely been no big deal

2. T20 was using his ill gotten gains from the t2 lottery to produce for the corp. It would be hard to say that they didn't have an economic advantage with a guy on their side producing stuff from ill gotten gains even if they didn't get any direct advantages from it, but since he was producing for the corp its flat out impossible to say so.

Then T20 got found out(all the leadership in BoB knew before T20 was set as the head of their capital fleet) and had to leave BoB. Much gnashing of teeth was had and T20 leaves the alliance. This is long before the issue is public knowledge. T20 is "punished internally for cheating".

Keep in mind, as of this point, CCP knows that T20 cheated, it was why he had gotten found out. Also keep in mind that the "punishment" that he received was never made public, but he was not fired. And, most importantly, the BPO's that he had acquired were not removed from the game, when he left BoB, he gave them to BoB for them to produce with.

Six Months Later, Kugutsumen hits. And it all becomes public. CCP won't punish T20 more because "it wouldn't be fair to punish him twice", even though what his punishment was not disclosed. This is the point where the BPO's were removed from BoB. Kugutsumen was banned using a obscure part of the EULA (anyone that causes CCP "undue cost" is in breach and can have their accounts terminated) and life went on.

___________________

tl;dr

CCP catch cheater(T20), but continue to let him cheat for BoB for 6 months(Cheated BPO's known about but not removed) until a whistle blower brings it into public light, where-in they ban the whistle blower and do not punish the cheater.
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