Looking to play a MMO...

[naum]

Meridian 59

[damijin]

If you don't have one of those two situations for your game's character advancement, you leave the player with no chance to talk and socialize.

Forcing people to do anything is fucking stupid. Maybe people can socialize because they like socializing and you can leave off with making the game fucking boring for those of us looking for more game than virtual chat room.

I know I love showing up at the spires to the Overrealm in EQ2 and hearing "The spires will be active in 5 minutes." That really makes me fucking social. When I go afk and make a sandwich. Dinosaur game mechanics.

Maybe we can talk about how forced grouping is awesome because nobody would group if they weren't forced to. Which leads me to believe people don't like grouping, if they need to be forced to do so. When I move, I like to stop by walmart and pick up five random people to help out.

I think the thing is that most players, not all, with no push in any direction from the developers, will do one thing: achieve.

I mean, you could argue that the devs are pushing this, and "forcing" the players to do it, by making achievement so damn rewarding! Most players just want to get to the top in the most efficient way possible, taking every possible shortcut, and condensing the game down to the fastest methods of advancement possible.

I don't think that encouraging socialization through downtime is forcing players to socialize any more than giving stat increases for leveling up is forcing them to level. I *do* think that socialization, despite the numbers of people here who dislike doing it, is good for the success and longevity of your game. You want social players to play your game, they are going to be the ones who get bored of the game play and keep paying you for a long time just to have a world to chat with their new-found friends in. I think there's a huge market for non-social games too, but its not the fucking mmorpg market. It's literally everything else. Pyro is a great game for not socializing! You should play it :)

In short, anything you put into your game is going to "force" players to do something. As a game designer who's goal is to make a game that generates revenue, I think "forcing" people to interact with each other (as long as its properly obfuscated by something seemingly unrelated, like downtime and complimentary classes -- not cantina dancing) is a good thing for your long term success. Simple as that. Obfuscation of the things that you are forcing players to do is a whole different conversation, so, I'll just leave it there.

The other thing I think should be kept in mind is that I often speak from the perspective of an asshole trying to violently rape money from as many wallets as possible through exploitative game design that fucks with the human psyche, not from the perspective of myself as a gamer. This may cause obvious disagreements if I don't put it out there. As a gamer, well, I'm not retarded. I can socialize if I want to in a game that doesn't force me to do it. I just dont think very highly of the unwashed masses of 13 year olds who's lunch money I am hypothetically trying to suck away into my virtual paradise of friendship and no more lonely afternoons.

[Chinchilla]

Is this where someone brings up cantinas and wound healing?

I don't know what that means.  Is that a Warhammer reference?  I thought I had seen a cantina that said it healed wounds (HP).  Come to think of it... that's weird if I read it correctly.

Freeshards? Really?

Jesus Christ people, why don't you just go ahead tell him to download TinyMUD.

The part of this you aren't getting is I met Chin on a UO Freeshard called Metropolis, and a few other f13ers are in on the joke. We had fun for a while there.

Oh man those were the days! LOL!

[Tale]

Is this where someone brings up cantinas and wound healing?

I don't know what that means.  Is that a Warhammer reference?  I thought I had seen a cantina that said it healed wounds (HP).  Come to think of it... that's weird if I read it correctly.

SWG reference. When taking damage you also gradually accumulated permanent wounds to mind, health and action (the three hitpoint pools that could be used to kill you). Wounds reduced the capacity of these pools. Health and action wounds could be healed by medics. Mind could only be healed by watching entertainers (fellow players) dance or play music, generally at a cantina.

[Chinchilla]

Are the battlegrounds/scenario thing in WoW like in Warhammer?  There were so many of them going on last night that I had to actually stop signing myself up for them.  Everytime I clicked to join it was asking me if I wanted in literally 5 - 8 minutes later.  And there were lotsa players in there too.  It was fun as hell.  Hell... most of my money and leveling was from the PvP.

I'm still somewhat lowbie so not sure what to expect out of the PvE yet.  I'm playing that alliance wizard type class (which is a class I NEVER can play) and I'm LOVING the damn guy!

I enjoyed LoTRO, but the raiding stuff did sometimes get to be a bit much.  For example... raiding Carn Dum which was one of the easier ones.  Doing that place from the front to the back.  Even getting one or two of the keys to skip areas... it was quite a chore.  I do want some PvE because I enjoy that, but I am more there for the PvP.  

AND I would like it for the PvP not to be item based (*cough* EQ1 *cough*), but as close to skill as possible.

After Warhammer I will try WoW.  After WoW I will give Eve a try and after that I will try CoH/V/whatever.  And then I will try Lineage 2 (that's the one right?).

So this will be like a 3 week long continuing updated post about my episodes on finding a MMO that will now satisfy this ex-UO (~5 years),EQ1 (4-5 years),DAoC (~4 years) lover.

[Chinchilla]

Is this where someone brings up cantinas and wound healing?

I don't know what that means.  Is that a Warhammer reference?  I thought I had seen a cantina that said it healed wounds (HP).  Come to think of it... that's weird if I read it correctly.

SWG reference. ... Mind could only be healed by watching entertainers (fellow players) dance or play music, generally at a cantina.

You MUST be joking.  That is dumb as hell.

Speaking of music.  Holy fucking shit do I miss LoTRO's music system.  That was the baddest ass ingame music system I have seen yet!  SOOOOO much damn fun to do!  Especially when you get good.  Its like guitar hero w/o the UI and your imagination on the PC heheheh :)!

[Hindenburg]

So this will be like a 3 week long continuing updated post about my episodes on finding a MMO that will now satisfy this ex-UO (~5 years),EQ1 (4-5 years),DAoC (~4 years) lover.

Shouldn't you, y'know, get a livejournal for that sorta stuff?

[Cheddar]

I am finding L2 oddly seductive.  They really have done a wonderful job removing "the suck."

Hardest part for me currently is getting information on the fuckton of content.

[Bandit]

aww come back to LOTRO chin....surprisingly enough I was in your guild on Silverlode (Bravado - Captain) but transferred out to Brandywine to the F13 guild sometime after your departure.  Middle Earth beckons....

[Lantyssa]

Is this where someone brings up cantinas and wound healing?

I don't know what that means.  Is that a Warhammer reference?  I thought I had seen a cantina that said it healed wounds (HP).  Come to think of it... that's weird if I read it correctly.

SWG reference. ... Mind could only be healed by watching entertainers (fellow players) dance or play music, generally at a cantina.

You MUST be joking.  That is dumb as hell.

No joke.  Cantinas were awesome.  Forced downtime is not, and while I appreciate the reasoning behind why it was done, I didn't agree with the result.  Damijin's concept of forcing anything on players is what I was poking at.  Give the players the tools and make those activities fun, but purposefully adding grind or downtime to force socialization?  Won't work, because everyone's tolerances are different.

[Chinchilla]

aww come back to LOTRO chin....surprisingly enough I was in your guild on Silverlode (Bravado - Captain) but transferred out to Brandywine to the F13 guild sometime after your departure.  Middle Earth beckons....

Holy shit bro!  Good to see you again!  Yeah I left LoTRO when I left the wife (now ex-wife).  I took a break from online gaming and totally changed my life for the 100% better.  I am not reinvigorated and ready to play!

Hmmmm...  it is tempting I must say.  I have a new and much nicer laptop now that can smoothly play LoTRO too.  I do miss a good going guild where ppl talk shit and all do stuff like my old Acies Invictus on LoTRO Silverlode.

[Chinchilla]

So I hear that WoW will be introducing in a very soon patch the ability to be teleported over to the battlegrounds... instead of having to go to the city.

[Chinchilla]

So last night I logged onto Warhammer for a little bit more (about 1 hour). I did a few quests and joined the que for a PvP scenario. I then came across this "Public" quest. Not knowing what this was that popped up on my screen I stayed around as my curiousity was peaked. Ends up being a quest that everyone can jump into and depending on how much you "contribute" you can get in on the rolling for loot. The loot is pretty damn good to for my level (which is 5).

I stuck around and did it 3 times. It was a fun as hell quest too. It sure is nice being a wizzy because as long as everyone has the aggro I can AoE/DD/DoT things to hell and back.

I do have to say this is going to be really fun exploring all of these MMO's. The market has changed in terms of nifty features.

[Wasted]

Oh, to be young again 

[FatuousTwat]

I played the hell out of LoTRO back in beta (I somehow got in really early), but I never actually subscribed.

Nothing except for the slowly rising amount of f13 players rejoining up has enticed me into going back.

[Chinchilla]

Oh, to be young again 

I'd hardly call 31 young ;-), even though since changing my life I do feel younger now than what I ever have before!

I played the hell out of LoTRO back in beta (I somehow got in really early), but I never actually subscribed.

Nothing except for the slowly rising amount of f13 players rejoining up has enticed me into going back.

Its tempting to me too.  The only thing that is holding me back is how peeved off I am from losing a very strong and lifetime account.

[Mrbloodworth]

Oh, to be young again 

I'd hardly call 31 young ;-), even though since changing my life I do feel younger now than what I ever have before!

I played the hell out of LoTRO back in beta (I somehow got in really early), but I never actually subscribed.

Nothing except for the slowly rising amount of f13 players rejoining up has enticed me into going back.

Its tempting to me too.  The only thing that is holding me back is how peeved off I am from losing a very strong and lifetime account.

Uh, how do you loose a lifetime account?

[Wasted]

Oh, to be young again 

I'd hardly call 31 young ;-), even though since changing my life I do feel younger now than what I ever have before!

It was reading you enjoying the level 5 experience in WAR reminding me that you can never go back.

[Chinchilla]

Uh, how do you loose a lifetime account?

My fucking bitch of an ex-wife took it from me because she went in and called customer service and supplied the original accounts billing info (which was her dad's credit card) and took it from me.  The lifetime account was my BDay present about 2 years ago.

I do have to say that the one thing I didn't like about LoTRO was the RvR/PvP/PvM (Player vs. Monster Player).  I prefer having a took I can level up and get gear for than the player monsters.  The player monster thing is a ton of fun though so they did do that aspect well even though its not a typical leveling type character.

[Sky]

Uh, how do you loose a lifetime account?

Turn it counter-clockwise.

[Chinchilla]

Oh, to be young again 

I'd hardly call 31 young ;-), even though since changing my life I do feel younger now than what I ever have before!

It was reading you enjoying the level 5 experience in WAR reminding me that you can never go back.

Ahhhhh I understand now.  Yeah I still remember that new feeling when I played UO and EQ1 and DAoC.  There's just nothing like it.  I'm really really enjoying it!  I look forward to the other games I will be trail running too.

[Sky]

I, too, really enjoyed the PQs during the beta. I wasn't sure how long they'd stay vibrant, since they're level-based and every mmogtard races to the level cap. Scenarios were great, but RvR was kind of a let-down, but I was a melee that was constantly rooted and nuked, it just got boring. Glad I got to play for a bit in beta, but nothing I'd bother with for money.

[Mrbloodworth]

Uh, how do you loose a lifetime account?

My fucking bitch of an ex-wife took it from me because she went in and called customer service and supplied the original accounts billing info (which was her dad's credit card) and took it from me.  The lifetime account was my BDay present about 2 years ago.

I do have to say that the one thing I didn't like about LoTRO was the RvR/PvP/PvM (Player vs. Monster Player).  I prefer having a took I can level up and get gear for than the player monsters.  The player monster thing is a ton of fun though so they did do that aspect well even though its not a typical leveling type character.

oooooooo............ 

Well...Click me.

[Chinchilla]

The only thing that kept me coming back for more was the people in our Acies Invictus guild, but since my ex-wife and her family are still in it... I won't go back to it.  That is just begging for drama.

[Chinchilla]

I did a few more PQ's last night. As my wizard I do tend to get close to the top in rank of the PQ's list, but I have to say that unless I actually work and I really do mean work at it (which is how it should be)... otherwise I will not get top ranking. Its nice to think you can just run in and do AoE and DD's, but you have to manage aggro as well. When those mobs get pissed you are in deep shit and you gotta back off (which means helping out less).

The loot is pretty good from those PQ's. I'm not sure about higher up ones, but so far I'm level 6 almost 7 and loving it. I tried out a few other classes such as the high elf melee'er (sword dancer I think?) and high elf archmage. Pretty cool classes I have to say. I haven't tried any of the opposing faction ones yet.

I did a few more scenarios last night. Out of 2 hours of play I felt like I did alot and had lotsa fun. There are tons of lower levels for the scenarios and not everyone is maxing themselves out for the scenario. Most are going in there at level 5,6,7 and the max I think is 11. Few 11's here and there, but overall not everyone is focusing on maxing out.

Tonight I may not have much time to play as I have to pack as we are moving out of our apartment. I do hope I get some time to play though because I'd love to try out the opposing factions classes.

[Xuri]

The only thing that kept me coming back for more was the people in our Acies Invictus guild, but since my ex-wife and her family are still in it... I won't go back to it.  That is just begging for drama.

Go back to it, then post the drama here?

[Chinchilla]

Last night I tried out WoW for about 2 hours.  First impressions (now this is the regular WoW fully patched as of 3/31/09... none of the expansions) is that unless the graphics have changed and its not included in the downloads then the graphics aren't all that great.  They are not terrible, but no where near as good as WAR if you ask me.  I started and undead character.  I played with him up to about level 7.

 I really am not too crazy about the spell casting animations.  They look cheesey.  The world itself reminds me of EQ1.  Actually I liked EQ1's town layout better.  I'm going to try an Orc and Tauren tonight because maybe its just the fact that I do not like where the undead start off.  I liked all of WAR's order starting areas.  The elf one less than the others, but I did like all of them.  I haven't tried the chaos side yet.  I think I will make another 10 day trail and try that side next.

The quests feel like the same old hunt X amount of Y and come back.  Gather X amount of Y and come back.  I know that WAR has that too, but when I'm in WAR I feel like there is constantly a WAR going on around me.  There is constant turmoil and destruction.  Like I have to watch over my shoulder or something. I don't know if maybe its the atmosphere, but this is my first impressions so far.

The feeling I am getting from WoW is I think the same feeling I had from it the last time I tried it a few years ago.  Part of me really wants to like this game because there's so many ppl, but something just doesn't flow w/ this game.  It just feels to "simple" maybe is the word.  I honestly am not sure.  I'm going to continue trying and I'm going to try alliance as well before I decide on this game.

[Rasix]

The feeling I am getting from WoW is I think the same feeling I had from it the last time I tried it a few years ago. 

Sub 60 content on the base races has not changed in that time in any way that you'd notice.   Only thing you might notice is faster leveling post 20, but it sounds like you never got that far initially.

If you want a different flavor, you can try the blood elf or draenei starting areas.  Otherwise to get a real feel for how the game is changed you'll need to get to 58/68 or Outland/Northrend content (ideally Northrend).  Too bad you can't try a DK.

[Lantyssa]

The Horde starting areas are really dull.  Graphically Undead have the best of the initial lot, but their quests don't interest me.  The Blood Elf and Draenei really are a big improvement as they had a few years of learning applied to them.  (Warriors are kind of annoying to take to Silverymoon though.  Your nearest trainer is in Brill.)

[eldaec]

The graphics looked dated when WoW launched, but in terms of style and charm you picked just wrong when you went horde.

This isn't about personal preference or individual style, you just picked wrong. If you only played to level 7, and don't have a guild, bite the bullet and reroll alliance.


On mechanics, yeah, it's just EQ1 with less grind. Not that this is a problem if you liked EQ1 barring the grind.

[Hindenburg]

The only starting areas that aren't absolute trash are Blood Elf and Draenei. The ones that may redeem themselves after you hit 10 and finally go to the capital are human, dwarf and tauren.

[PalmTrees]

I had the same feelings when I tried out the WoW free trial. Older, but serviceable graphics and a quest grind I just couldn't get into. The emptiness of the low level areas didn't help much either. My undead warlock made it to 15 before I uninstalled. Just couldn't see myself paying for fetch, kill and collect quests as I had been doing the same thing in f2p games with better graphics like Runes of Magic and Perfect World.

[DraconianOne]

(Warriors are kind of annoying to take to Silverymoon though.  Your nearest trainer is in Brill.)

Or Undercity - which at least is a portal away.

More annoying is Shaman - nearest trainer is in Orgrimmar.  Surprising as there's even a Druid trainer in Silvermoon.

[Shatter]

There are lots of games I dont play because of the level grind.  I recently started EQ2 again and began to level an illusionist and the leveling curved has certainly improved since I tried it last.  I got to level 32 in quick time, but there being 80 levels to achieve Im now debating on quitting.  If I had the opportunity to start around level 40 I would definitely keep going.  Same goes for WOW, I wouldnt mind coming back and starting a new character(other then DK) but I cant be bothered to level from 1.  I dont know why games dont offer the ability to start a character from a mid level point or level 1, make it a choice especially after the games been out 4-5 years already. 

[Chinchilla]

So Blood Elf and Draenei.  I will try those.  Thank you!  Another update...
____________________________________

So last night I spent 2 hours playing WoW.  I made a troll rogue.  Not a bad class.  The graphics still get on my nerves, but this gameplay was still a slight bit better.  I do really enjoy all of the nostalgic things they did like when you click the woodworker peons in the Valley of Trails and they say "Work work.  Me no that type of orc.  Leave me alone...". 

I so love that stuff because it reminds me of the old Warcraft 1 and Warcraft 2 days.  I also really do like the voices they used for the orcs/trolls.  They also remind me of the old WC1 & WC2 days.  The jamaican sounding troll is awesome to listen to with the variety of different things he says like when he's out of range for his throwing dagger (there's only so many, but fun the first few times around).

I am forcing myself to look past the nostalgia things about it and only look at it as a MMO.  So far as a MMO I am getting kinda bored because the first few quests were easy and not too tough at all to find.  Now that I moved on to the 2nd village just outside the Valley of Trails its getting a little more annoying.  Now granted I don't have ThotBot or whatever those other things are, but I feel that it shouldn't be tough to find the stuff right out of the box.

I have to hunt down some tigers for hides and these other creatures that drop some stuff I need (no names were given) that it doesn't even give me any hints where either of them are (at least the other quests it gave me hints.. NW NE somewhere).  I literally ran all the way to another town with no sight of these tigers.  I'm going to try swimming to these little islands across from the village, but I have no idea what tigers would be doing on those little islands, but you never know.

Hunting down the attack plans (another quest) was fun to do as it was high for my level, but I was able to do it being sneaky and tactical.  That was fun.  I still don't have this feeling that there is a constant war going on though.  I'm just moeping about.

Maybe its unfair to judge it based on a few hours and levels of play, but I'm thinking that they should make MMO's as accessible in lower levels as in higher levels.  Kinda like how they love to push all the best scenes in movie previews.  Or at least throw you some tastes of what is to come (which I haven't seen yet either).  At least in WAR I can see what there is to come and what there will be.