IGN reviews KOTR2

[Malderi]

I just left Peragus (first planet). My take, without spoilers:

Good game, although KOTOR1 was better,  mostly because of initial story. The Peragus story seems to start weak. Also, there are MANY more bugs. Nothing game-breaking, but things like there seems to be no pathfinding algorithm whatsoever (characters will sometimes just walk straight into things and keep walking forward and not moving), and just other minor things. Also, Peragus seems to have more puzzles. Note to Obsidian: Star Wars is NOT a puzzle environment. There's only two or three, that adventure-gamers wouldn't even consider puzzles, but it took me a little while to switch off the action part of the brain and turn on the thinking part of the brain.

All in all: If you like RPGs, Star Wars, or KOTOR, definitely pick it up. If you don't really care, it's not a game that will get you into the universe of genre, but it's still a good one overall.

[Arnold]

Does it force you to go into shoot-em-up mode once in a while when you're on the Ebon Hawk like it did in the first version?  I really, really hated that. I'm old and I suck at shooters. :)

That part was easy, ya just had to fire a little ahead of the enemy ships/

[Reg]

Does it force you to go into shoot-em-up mode once in a while when you're on the Ebon Hawk like it did in the first version?  I really, really hated that. I'm old and I suck at shooters. :)

That part was easy, ya just had to fire a little ahead of the enemy ships/

Yea, yea I know it was ridiculously simple for anyone with any experience at all with shooters but I don't play them and I haven't got the hand-eye coordination to even want to learn to do it. In the original Kotor it always took me two or three tries to get past those and it really pissed me off.

[Jacob0883]

A little tip to get past the shooting part of KOTOR really fast is to just start hitting the shoot button and moving the trigger left and right a very little bit.  I think my fastest time was like 4 seconds to shoot down all the ships.  I agree it was fun at first, but after a while I wanted to rip my hair out.

[MrHat]

So back to KOTOR2,

I'm wondering if I should make this a holiday present request.  I enjoyed KOTOR quite a bit (the week that I played it), and was looking forward to this game.  Should I rent it? (I'm a binge gamer).

[Riggswolfe]

Probably because bunch of retards went and shelled out big buck for a dated PC in a small black box with a green cross on top and now it is more profitable to design and sell games that would run on that POS rather than on normal computer.

You do know that every single console system is nothing but an outdated PC put into a box?

[Riggswolfe]

For a list of the changes I've seen so far:

More feats: I particularly like the ones to make cross-class skills class skills so they only cost one skill point to raise instead of two.

Prestige classes: Jedi Weapon Master is the one I'm aiming for

More "Crafting": In the first game you could upgrade items. Now you can actually create items from medpacs all the way to blaster rifles.

Interesting NPC "powers": By this I mean that the NPCs give you bonuses while in your party. The old Jedi woman gives a bonus to some skills while in your party. The Carth-like character cannot be knocked out unless he is the only party member standing. I am hoping all characters will do this, as choosing characters will then become even more strategic.

Influence over NPCs: Probably the most hyped aspect of the sequel. For instance, the Carth clone seems to like it when I calm him down and give us plans for how to deal with our current situation.

I haven't gotten far enough to see if there is anything else new but this is what I noticed in the opening parts of the game.

[HaemishM]

Probably because bunch of retards went and shelled out big buck for a dated PC in a small black box with a green cross on top and now it is more profitable to design and sell games that would run on that POS rather than on normal computer.

You do know that every single console system is nothing but an outdated PC put into a box?

And that many people buy them because they are much easier to use, play a game and then put it up than a PC is?

[Rodent]

Let's not forget the pricetags when it comes to consoles vs PC. I paid more for my latest graphics card then my Xbox, PS2 and GC combined.

[stray]

Carth-like

You think? I kinda like this guy (Atten..or Atton, I forget), he's a smartass scoundrel. Carth was just a whiny bitch.

So back to KOTOR2,

I'm wondering if I should make this a holiday present request. I enjoyed KOTOR quite a bit (the week that I played it), and was looking forward to this game. Should I rent it? (I'm a binge gamer).

You could beat it in a couple rentals I think. Maybe one (if you really are binge). You'll get at least two games out of it though (Dark or Light), so it may be better to wait for a price drop and just buy it.

But anyways, if you're asking if it's fun, then yeah, it's KoToR. But like KoToR1, it'll eventually end. I haven't played Bloodlines yet (maybe you have?), but if what everyone says is true, it looks like it'll be a better purchase right now as far as story-driven games go.

[Lakov_Sanite]

But anyways, if you're asking if it's fun, then yeah, it's KoToR. But like KoToR1, it'll eventually end. I haven't played Bloodlines yet (maybe you have?), but if what everyone says is true, it looks like it'll be a better purchase right now as far as story-driven games go.

No.  Bloodlines starts strong story but ends very very weak.  i think kotor will be the opposite, slow out of the gate then it'll pick up but that part of course is just speculation.

Bloodlines? not worth 49.99, game crashing bugs, story driven plot turns into non-stop fight sequence for the last 1/4 of the game and really bad graphic/audio glitches throughout that break immersion non-stop.

[sinij]

Probably because bunch of retards went and shelled out big buck for a dated PC in a small black box with a green cross on top and now it is more profitable to design and sell games that would run on that POS rather than on normal computer.

You do know that every single console system is nothing but an outdated PC put into a box?

And that many people buy them because they are much easier to use, play a game and then put it up than a PC is?

This is 2004 and PCs are as easy to use out of the box as consoles. I personally don't think there are more than very few computer-illiterate console users. Computers and consoles are both power up and use, that is unless you are complicating things by fiddling with hardware or software on ether of them. I’d go as far as claiming that majority of console users own or have ready access to a computer that is equal or better machine than consoles they use.

When compared to consoles computers have more functionality, better hardware, better controllers and HDTV output as a standard.

Every time potentially good title like DeusEx2 gets tanked or good title like KoTOR falls short of greatness due to being designed with console limitations in mind I want to kill every single console user by sodomizing them with their ass-backwards controllers. Great games could only be made for PCs.

[Evander]

Probably because bunch of retards went and shelled out big buck for a dated PC in a small black box with a green cross on top and now it is more profitable to design and sell games that would run on that POS rather than on normal computer.

You do know that every single console system is nothing but an outdated PC put into a box?

And that many people buy them because they are much easier to use, play a game and then put it up than a PC is?

Not to mention I don't have to worry if my video card is up to date every time I buy a new X-Box game.  I neevr find myself haviong to turn off textures to make things run smoother, either.

I have a PC I game on as well, sinij, and yeah, it's easy to use a PC as a game machine.  It also means that you'll be spending money on upgrades all the time as the newer PC games come out with higher requirements, that is, unless you want to run at lower resolutions, or with less textures, or what have you, and at that point, you might as well be running on a current generation console.  Now, with a top of the line computer, todays more demanding games look LIGHTYEARS ahead of anything my Xbox could ever do.  As they should, for the price you're paying to keep that hardware up to date.

Both Consoles and PCs have their merits for gaming, and personally, I can't imaine ever having to choose only one, but consoles definitely win out fo rthe "Ease Of Use" award.

[sinij]

It boils down to following - if you can design simpler games for standardized hardware instead of trying to innovate for broad range of hardware configurations a PC can have and still sell your games at a full price why bother innovate?

Consoles kill innovation and you are supporting it by paying full price for not up to state-of-the-art games.

[Margalis]

It boils down to following - if you can design simpler games for standardized hardware instead of trying to innovate for broad range of hardware configurations a PC can have and still sell your games at a full price why bother innovate?

Consoles kill innovation and you are supporting it by paying full price for not up to state-of-the-art games.

Wrong.

It comes down to this:

Consoles price v. performance is an order of magnitude higher.

Console hardware uniformity allows devs to spend more time on the fun aspects of games vs. testing and configuration tweaking.

Console hardware uniformity allows for a much lower number of bugs.

Consoles often come with 4 controller ports.

Consoles are designed to played on a couch instead of a TV.

Consoles don't get viruses, need hard drive defragging, take 2 minutes to boot, have video card, sound card and driver problems, etc.

Innovation in PC games? Really, where? PC games have been stuck in a rut for 10 years or so. Innovation does not mean testing games on a bunch of hardware configs.

If I want to make a stupid blanket statement like you have, I would make the following:

PC games kill quality, and you are supporting that by paying full price for buggy, unfinished games.

[sinij]

>> Consoles price v. performance is an order of magnitude higher.

Economy computers cost less then price of a console, TV and adequate set of controllers. ‘Order of magnitude higher’ only happens when you compare top-of-the-line PC to console and forget to include cost of TV and good controllers. You also forget to include cost of all additional functionality PC has over console.

>> Console hardware uniformity allows devs to spend more time on the fun aspects of games vs. testing and configuration tweaking.

Testing and development are two different things, if your developers doing testing of your codes you are horribly mismanaging your project.

>> Console hardware uniformity allows for a much lower number of bugs.

Following software engineering practices, realistic deadlines and sufficient testing man-hours allow for a much lower number of bugs, hardware has very little to do with it.

>> Consoles often come with 4 controller ports.

My PC has adequate controllers out of the box, for consoles you need to buy yours and they cost a lot more than top of the line PC stuff.

>> Consoles don't get viruses, need hard drive defragging, take 2 minutes to boot, have video card, sound card and driver problems, etc.

As long as you only play games on your computer they also don’t get any of the problems you list. It is other, non-gaming uses of a PC that cause these problems.

[Riggswolfe]

>> Consoles price v. performance is an order of magnitude higher.

Economy computers cost less then price of a console, TV and adequate set of controllers. ‘Order of magnitude higher’ only happens when you compare top-of-the-line PC to console and forget to include cost of TV and good controllers. You also forget to include cost of all additional functionality PC has over console.

Well first off, you don't buy a TV expressly to play Console games. You buy a TV for watching it, watching DvDs, and also to play consoles on. Secondly, you get one controller, the second usually costs $50. If it is a brand new console you're probably looking at $350-400 dollars total. This is not taking into account console price drops over time. The cheapest store-bought PC I've ever seen is $500.

Following software engineering practices, realistic deadlines and sufficient testing man-hours allow for a much lower number of bugs, hardware has very little to do with it.

Hardware has alot to do with it. Raise your hand if you've never played a PC game and had to tweak something in your hardware to get it to work right? I see no hands. Hardware issues is about the only thing I don't hold devs totally accountable for simply because of the 999999999999 variations possible.

>> Consoles don't get viruses, need hard drive defragging, take 2 minutes to boot, have video card, sound card and driver problems, etc.

As long as you only play games on your computer they also don’t get any of the problems you list. It is other, non-gaming uses of a PC that cause these problems.

The only one this doesn't apply to is viruses. With games you still have to defrag, have potentail hardware problems etc.  And if you're only using your PC for games, it undoes alot of your other arguments about utility.

Don't get me wrong, I love PCs. I just find your anti-console slant to be misinformed and a little irrational.

[stray]

Carth-like

You think? I kinda like this guy (Atten..or Atton, I forget), he's a smartass scoundrel. Carth was just a whiny bitch.

Heh, been playing some more today, and I'm going to have to say this again. Atten just cracks me up. Lol, what an asshole. Not exactly HK quality material (and HK is in this game too), but he's funny in his own right.

As for this console vs PC thing goin' on here: Hey, I'm having fun. That's all that matters.

[Margalis]

Yes, it is kind of retarded dick waving to argue about consoles vs. PC. The one that killed me was innovation though - ten years ago I might have agreed that PC games are innovative. Nowadays, how many WW2-themed FPS games do you need to get the hint that innovation is lacking? 20? 50?

PC games span a MUCH MUCH narrower range of genres than they did 5 or 10 years ago. I don't see how anyone can argue otherwise.

[Moroni]

So better than the first? Worse? After PoP2, I demand excellence.

[Lum]

It's as good as the first; the NPC interaction is better. There's no outright loser NPCs although some are awfully similar. And most you can upgrade into VERY useful versions (saying more would be spoilerish).

It's tuned to a higher level - after 3 planets my characters were all in the level 16-18 range and plowing through enemies like candy. Does give a very heroic Star Warsy feel.

The light and dark sides are almost different games. Well, you follow the same main quest, but for different reasons, actions, and with some different party members.

[HaemishM]

It boils down to following - if you can design simpler games for standardized hardware instead of trying to innovate for broad range of hardware configurations a PC can have and still sell your games at a full price why bother innovate?

Consoles kill innovation and you are supporting it by paying full price for not up to state-of-the-art games.

Grand Theft Auto 3, sports games like ESPN NFL 2k5 and Zelda Wind Walker are over here telling me how wrong you are. Consoles don't kill innovation; profiteering publishers who want to make more money off the same basic game kill innovation.

[Evander]

It boils down to following - if you can design simpler games for standardized hardware instead of trying to innovate for broad range of hardware configurations a PC can have and still sell your games at a full price why bother innovate?

Consoles kill innovation and you are supporting it by paying full price for not up to state-of-the-art games.

Grand Theft Auto 3, sports games like ESPN NFL 2k5 and Zelda Wind Walker are over here telling me how wrong you are. Consoles don't kill innovation; profiteering publishers who want to make more money off the same basic game kill innovation.

Not to mention unintelligent consumers who are afraid of trying anything new, and only want companies to make for them more of the same product over and over.  You have those on consoles and PC alike, though.

Same as the profiteering publishers.

But this is the reason why Madden had thousands more pre-orders than Katamari Damacy.

[Roac]

Well first off, you don't buy a TV expressly to play Console games.

Well, second off, I don't buy a PC expressly to play PC games.

[Evander]

Well first off, you don't buy a TV expressly to play Console games.

Well, second off, I don't buy a PC expressly to play PC games.

But then you run the risk of getting viruses, and have to defrag!

OH WAIT!  We're going in circles now, aren't we.

Maybe Haemish was responding to a guy who was advocating ONLY buying a PC for gaming purposes?

[Murgos]

My PC makes me 1000's of dollars a month AND plays games.

[Shavnir]

Can a console do this?

Although I think its saying more for the console that it can't.[/url]

[HaemishM]

You can use that accessory on a console, but you'll get banned from X-Box Live if you do.

/rimshot

I am someone who owns both consoles and a PC, and play games on both. Neither is better than the other. PC's are, however, losing ground to consoles in the game department for a lot of reasons, most of which involve consoles making more money per unit than PC games ever will, as well as development being easier on a console because of the standardized hardware.

PC gaming is a niche.

[Merusk]

PC gaming is a niche.

Careful, Haemish. You're going to make Sinij's head explode.

Haven't we alraedy had this argument about a dozen times over the last few years?  I thought that by this point everyone understood this to be true.

 Just because it's niche doesn't mean it's bad.  It just means you're going to see fewer and fewer games released initialy to the PC.  Or at least fewer that don't follow the online/ subscription model which is getting to be an ever-increasing number compared to stand-alones.  Yes, I count HL2 & Guildwars under that banner, since both are useless coasters without an internet connection.

[geldonyetich]

I am someone who owns both consoles and a PC, and play games on both. Neither is better than the other. PC's are, however, losing ground to consoles in the game department for a lot of reasons, most of which involve consoles making more money per unit than PC games ever will, as well as development being easier on a console because of the standardized hardware.

One thing I've noticed about console games is that, perhaps due to the reduced development cost, there seems to be considerably more creativity on them.   About 95% of PC games are Just_Another_FPS, Just_Another_RTS, or Just_Another_Remake of some other kind.   Not to say that the console games are totally immune to cloning, just that it's far more common for me to come across a new and interesting game concept on a console game than a PC game.

[stray]

Hey, I'm not one to police threads, epecially those not my own, but how about we talk about KoToR? Y'know, the topic of the thread?

Anyways, anyone have any luck influencing Kreia? I'll be damned if I can get her to agree with anything I say (well, maybe a couple times). Playing Light side right now, but it seems like even the smallest act of kindness has her bitching and lecturing me about it. I wonder if she's as much trouble if you play the Dark side. Is she supposed to represent balance, or do I have to accept everything she says, even when I believe her to be wrong, since this is more of a Master/Apprentice relationship?

[Rasix]

Remember, don't get to spoiley without warning (I'm getting it for xmas I think).  And yes, get this fucker back on target.  Enough with the the console v. pc crap.  It does not need to be brought up in every topic that lends itself to the debate.

[stray]

Remember, don't get to spoiley without warning (I'm getting it for xmas I think).

I won't try to spoil too much. Actually, about all I have left to say is that I haven't really pulled myself away from it since Friday night. Same thing happened when I played the first, but I think I'm getting into this one even more. Yeah, it starts off a little slow, but starts kicking in soon enough. Definitely worth buying in case you had doubts.

[CmdrSlack]

Hey, I'm not one to police threads, epecially those not my own, but how about we talk about KoToR? Y'know, the topic of the thread?

Anyways, anyone have any luck influencing Kreia? I'll be damned if I can get her to agree with anything I say (well, maybe a couple times). Playing Light side right now, but it seems like even the smallest act of kindness has her bitching and lecturing me about it. I wonder if she's as much trouble if you play the Dark side. Is she supposed to represent balance, or do I have to accept everything she says, even when I believe her to be wrong, since this is more of a Master/Apprentice relationship?

To answer your question would spoil the later parts of the game for you.

[Lum]

In general kowtowing to Kreia will give you small influence adjustments. She also is True Neutral in D&D terms so will get pissed off if you do good or evil (the evil chastisement in particular cracked me up - "Must your every impulse be psychotic?" when you whack an innocent) but you can usually stem the influence loss by kissing up to her in the ensuing conversation.

Any more would be spoilers, but trust me, you will find out her story eventually no matter what. My light side guy didn't put up with any crap from her when she yelled at me for righting the universe's wrongs, and I was still able to get enough influence by being respectful about it to get the occasional backstory from her. There's a cut scene that's pretty easy to get that should let you know enough of her past to answer most questions. ("So are you Sith or Jedi?" is the conversation starter, I think.)

BTW, I had to restart because the game erases all your save games when you start a new game. Without telling you. RAGE.