IGN reviews KOTR2

[Riggswolfe]

For those of you who care:

Read it here

I plan to pick up the game on Tuesday. May be the only thing that can make me take a break from WoW for awhile.

[stray]

May be the only thing that can make me take a break from WoW for awhile.

Yeah same here. But if it's as good as the last, then I'll be playing a week straight. Playing a good single player game is the one situation where I'm probably better off playing an MMO instead.

[Lanei]

Some game titles make me wish I had an XBox.  Guess I'll be waiting for the PC version of this.

[Arnold]

Did anyone else find combat in KOTOR boring?  Maybe it was just me because I powered up stasis field, heal, and destroy robot and used them all the time.  I didn't really see the effect that various bonuses and whatnot had on my characters.  This is especially true when I became a jedi and used an all jedi party whenever possible.

I understand they used the D20 system.  Is that anything like D&D, and if so, which version?

[stray]

Did anyone else find combat in KOTOR boring?  Maybe it was just me because I powered up stasis field, heal, and destroy robot and used them all the time.  I didn't really see the effect that various bonuses and whatnot had on my characters.  This is especially true when I became a jedi and used an all jedi party whenever possible.

I understand they used the D20 system.  Is that anything like D&D, and if so, which version?

I don't remember a whole lot about the combat system actually. I remember it could get a little easy times, when I toggled on turn-based, but thing that kept me playing wasn't the gameplay (though it was fun enough) but the story. I enjoyed the Adventure aspect of it more than I did the RPG.

As for D20, from my understanding, it is D&D. Originally based off of the 2nd edition, but now given to the public as open source. Atm, it corresponds with the 3rd edition (or is it 3.5?).

It can also be adapted to other games, or you can use it to create your own. I'm not sure if it's entirely open source though. I think Wizards of the Coast holds some control over it still. I guess it's their way of trying to bring some kind of standard for RPG combat systems as well as removing the competition in the process.

[Azaroth]

but thing that kept me playing wasn't the gameplay (though it was fun enough) but the story

Yeah, precisely. And the thing is, it was a better movie than any of the god damn star wars movies that have come out recently. And it wasn't a movie.

Rock on KOTOR, even if you were short and had a horribly silly ending.

[Zane0]

I'm looking forward to playing KOTOR2 (in a few months) based on what I'm hearing from that review.  It seems that KOTOR2 has a heavier emphasis on your NPC buddies and the atmosphere, while the combat system is a little lax.  This if perfect, since I feel that the former two are where the strength of the Star Wars theme can really shine; SW combat is inherently unbalanced and therefore inherently boring after you get over the "Oo!  Jedi!" thing.

I am also a *cough* fan of debates on Jedi philosophy which is also apparantly another strong point in the sequel.  The idea of influencing your buddies, turning evil NPCs to good or vice versa is also very appealing, and very Star Wars too.

They have some PS:T devs in the mix at Obsidian, so I'm hoping for a pale reflection of that beautiful game here!

[eldaec]

Did anyone else find combat in KOTOR boring?  Maybe it was just me because I powered up stasis field, heal, and destroy robot and used them all the time.  I didn't really see the effect that various bonuses and whatnot had on my characters.  This is especially true when I became a jedi and used an all jedi party whenever possible.

I understand they used the D20 system.  Is that anything like D&D, and if so, which version?

Kotor combat was boring because it was easy once you become a mid level jedi not because of the mechanics.

D20 is largely D&D stripped down and made easily customisable for other genre settings. At least that's how I look at it. I'm sure there is a longer version.

[Azaroth]

I am also a *cough* fan of debates on Jedi philosophy which is also

If I could I'd charlie horse you through the computer screen right now.

While I admit the Jedi stuff was all quite fun while playing KOTOR and all that stuff, in reality it's all quite flawed and rather ridiculous at times.

Yes, someone put some thought into it. No, they were not a genius.

Christ, I think I have to give myself a charlie horse now.

[Lanei]

The D&D 3rd edition Players Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide are also the two main core rulebooks of the D20 system.  It has since been updated to D&D (and D20) 3.5 Edition, with a few blanace tweaks and a fair bit of streamlining.  

The D20 system itself is an Open Game License product, which means basically that you can make your own setting/classes/world/etc and use the D20 mechanics in our game FOR FREE, provided you tell the people buying your book its a D20 game, and most of the core rules are in the D&D 3.5 PHB and DMG.

Thats kinda neat, IMO.

The flaws of KOTOR, balance-wise, are likely more due to video game deisgn decisions, like not making the random encounters challenging enough for certain templates, rather than mechanical flaws in the system.  If you want a harder challenge, try playing without whipping out the uberlicious 'I win' skill combo.

[Tebonas]

Its really easy. Kotor had to be solvable by the most craptastic character template people could think of.

Therefore it had to be too easy for all of us min-maxers who tend to ejaculate over excel spreadsheets before even starting their games. Beats having to restart once you realize your template sucks too much to finish the game. I think that happened to me once (in Arcanum) because trying to balance magic and mechanic skills left me to get owned by every high end monster. It ain't funny, people don't pay for that.

[sinij]

When does it come out on PC?

Combat in KOTOR was damn easy on hardest settings but only because I took time to build my character well. I think I will have to intentionally gimp my character in KOTR2 to have some challange.

Solution to easy combat? Make character power based a bit more on items that everyone can get. Make easy<->hard bar affect game in more ways - so if you make great character you still will be challanged on hard settings.

[Lanei]

When does it come out on PC?

The salesmonkey at the local EBGames said February when I asked yesterday.  He also knew exactly which stack of boxes you couldn't see from the floor contained my DVD copy of Pirates! so I'm inclined to think he keeps fairly good track of stuff.

[Arnold]

When does it come out on PC?

Combat in KOTOR was damn easy on hardest settings but only because I took time to build my character well. I think I will have to intentionally gimp my character in KOTR2 to have some challange.

Solution to easy combat? Make character power based a bit more on items that everyone can get. Make easy<->hard bar affect game in more ways - so if you make great character you still will be challanged on hard settings.

Someone should come up with a game that evaluates your character and sets the hardness meter for you based on what you rolled up.

[Merusk]

When does it come out on PC?

The salesmonkey at the local EBGames said February when I asked yesterday.  He also knew exactly which stack of boxes you couldn't see from the floor contained my DVD copy of Pirates! so I'm inclined to think he keeps fairly good track of stuff.

Anyone know  why it was changed?  The initial stuff I'd read almost a year ago had impllied a simultanious PC/ X-box  release.

[sinij]

When does it come out on PC?

The salesmonkey at the local EBGames said February when I asked yesterday.  He also knew exactly which stack of boxes you couldn't see from the floor contained my DVD copy of Pirates! so I'm inclined to think he keeps fairly good track of stuff.

Anyone know  why it was changed?  The initial stuff I'd read almost a year ago had impllied a simultanious PC/ X-box  release.

Probably because bunch of retards went and shelled out big buck for a dated PC in a small black box with a green cross on top and now it is more profitable to design and sell games that would run on that POS rather than on normal computer.

[Zane0]

From what I remember reading, both games seem to use the extra few months for getting the interface ready for the PC, and ironing out any cross-platform bugs.  Video cards, sound cards, and processor differentiation has to be accounted for, and blah blah etc.  With KOTOR 1 there was that space station that didn't initially show up on the X-Box copy too, so we might see something like that as well.

[Murgos]

As much as I liked playing KOTOR on the X-Box last time, this time I think I'm going to wait for the PC version.

[Sky]

Definitely holding out for the pc version. Thinking about selling my xbox while I can still make some money on it.

[Rasix]

Definitely holding out for the pc version. Thinking about selling my xbox while I can still make some money on it.

Please do, never having to hear about how much you hate your consoles again would make me a happy man.

[Big Gulp]

From what I remember reading, both games seem to use the extra few months for getting the interface ready for the PC, and ironing out any cross-platform bugs.  Video cards, sound cards, and processor differentiation has to be accounted for, and blah blah etc.  With KOTOR 1 there was that space station that didn't initially show up on the X-Box copy too, so we might see something like that as well.

I just wish that for once Lucasarts wasn't so hesitant about mods.  Look at how good Morrowind is once you apply a few hundred megs worth of fan made mods to it.  Now imagine doing that with a game which is actually good in the first place, like I don't believe Morrowind was.

[Bunk]

Despite the lack of support, there is still a fairly strong mod community for KotoR.  Check out this forum:

http://www.lucasforums.com/forumdisplay.php?s=37813526da7c215063e42009a1a7595f&forumid=324

[Big Gulp]

Despite the lack of support, there is still a fairly strong mod community for KotoR.

I didn't see anything earth shattering there.  Reskinning is not "modding" as far as I'm concerned.  When there's a good sized community creating new content and slotting it in then I'll call it decently moddable.  Lucasarts won't give an inch on this, though, because they're so protective of the canon even if Lucas himself has already take a horse-sized shit all over it.

[stray]

Well...I just picked it up. Goodbye to the World of Warcraft. I'll be back in a week or two....Hopelessly comparing you to this game. Then I'll get over it. After that, I'll buy Bloodlines, and see your flaws once again. Then it's on to Pirates, Half Life, Metal Gear, Jade Empires, more GTA...and so on.

Maybe in between all this downtime from all of the other great games out there, I'll finally have accomplished something in WoW. Like a character or something. I still like it, but WoW is more like the perfect game for a rainy day. Nothing more (That's more than I can say about any other MMOG though).

As for KoToR. So far it feels the same (good? bad? you decide). I'm going to play a couple more days before I say anything else. Didn't realize this was developed by "Obsidian" though. Not Bioware.

[Train Wreck]

I understand they used the D20 system.  Is that anything like D&D, and if so, which version?

It's a lot like the 3rd edition D&D, at least from what I was able to gather by playing Neverwinter Nights.  But KOTOR is really based on the Star Wars D20 PnP game.  They changed less than 10% of the rules, and what they did change was to adapt to real-time mechanics.

[eldaec]

When does it come out on PC?

Combat in KOTOR was damn easy on hardest settings but only because I took time to build my character well. I think I will have to intentionally gimp my character in KOTR2 to have some challange.

Solution to easy combat? Make character power based a bit more on items that everyone can get. Make easy<->hard bar affect game in more ways - so if you make great character you still will be challanged on hard settings.

Someone should come up with a game that evaluates your character and sets the hardness meter for you based on what you rolled up.

Games have attempted this with mixed success.

MP2 had dynamic difficulty I seem to remember.

It couldn't be too hard in kotor I guess, if I kill 400 dark jedi without ever dropping below 98% health, that is usually a sign that the difficulty needs to jump up a notch, and should be easy enoiugh for the game to detect.

[Reg]

Does it force you to go into shoot-em-up mode once in a while when you're on the Ebon Hawk like it did in the first version?  I really, really hated that. I'm old and I suck at shooters. :)

[stray]

Does it force you to go into shoot-em-up mode once in a while when you're on the Ebon Hawk like it did in the first version?  I really, really hated that. I'm old and I suck at shooters. :)

Haven't gotten to that yet, but I'd be surprised if it doesn't. The Ebon Hawk is in this game too.

KoToR2 plays almost exactly like the first, down to the same engine, mechanics, character building, etc.. I'm sure there are tweaks and improvements here and there, but I don't remember enough about the first one to offer any real details. Noticable differences are the story (obviously) and the added depth to good and evil choice making. It's a little more open ended than the first one.

Now if it was any other game, I'd probably wouldn't be too thrilled about it being so similar to it's predecessor. But this is KoToR (YMMV).

[schild]

Gamespot gave it an 8.5. Grain of salt, etc.

[stray]

I'd say that was accurate. It's not 9 material due to it being so much like the first, but it's still just as good. KoToR fans will be happy at least.

[Ironwood]

 KoToR2 plays almost exactly like the first, down to the same engine, mechanics, character building, etc..

Hmmm, I'd heard that Character building at least had a few new twists - more skills, feats and subclasses ?

Yes ?  No ?

[stray]

Hmm..I haven't noticed anything different really. Nothing major at least. Though the manual does mention one thing that comes later on down the line: "Jedi Forms"...What they are exactly I don't know yet (stances I presume). Some are only good for sabers, some for force powers.

There's kind of a "crafting" feel to workbenches as well. You can break items down, or build items up from different components.
 
One other thing worth mentioning is that you start out as a Jedi (either Guardian, Consular, or Sentinel). No need to gimp yourself with non-Saber related or Force skills this time around.

[Rodent]

Hmmm, I'd heard that Character building at least had a few new twists - more skills, feats and subclasses ?

Yes ?  No ?

Same skills as last time, there are more feats, more force powers ( some that can only be gained through achieving quests or becomming respected enough by your followers, it also adds  11 lightsaber "forms" ( fighting styles ) though you supposedly can only learn 7 of them.

The Subclasses are prestige classes, Sith Assasin, Jedi Weaponmaster etc.

Enjoying the game alot so far, being a fan of the first Kotor I'm glad Obsidian decided to only do minor tweaks to the gameplay.

[Big Gulp]

One other thing worth mentioning is that you start out as a Jedi (either Guardian, Consular, or Sentinel). No need to gimp yourself with non-Saber related or Force skills this time around.

Thank Christ.  Why more Star Wars games don't do this is beyond me.  It's like the Jedi Knight games; if I wanted to play some guy with a gun I'd play any other shooter out there, thanks.  Gimme the goddamned light saber already.

[Rodent]

Thank Christ.  Why more Star Wars games don't do this is beyond me.  It's like the Jedi Knight games; if I wanted to play some guy with a gun I'd play any other shooter out there, thanks.  Gimme the goddamned light saber already.

Heh, took me about 10 hours of gameplay before I got my lightsaber. Still, modified blasters and vibroswords will go a long way when you have force powers to back them up.