Giambi is a liar

[Shockeye]

I'm not sure that's quite the way I'd like it to be, because it just feels wrong to KNOWINGLY print something that is supposed to be sealed by the court of law. But at the same time, I'm also not sure I'd want some form of prohibition on the press that punished them for printing things that government officials want kept quiet, such as say Nixon's stupidity.

I can't really get upset over the paper printing it because they are newspapers. My problem is with the person who leaked it to the paper. Find them and flay them.

[HaemishM]

My biggest problem with the paper printing it is that it seems they have no problem with aiding and abetting a crime if it sells more papers. Not to mention it makes people distrust the whole "Your grand jury testimony is confidential" thing, making people more hesitant to testify truthfully before a grand jury.

[Dark Vengeance]

Once confidentiality is broken, it's broken. At that point it doesn't matter if you try to supress the information, or make sure every citizen has it ingrained permanently in their brain Clockwork Orange-style.

Not that they aren't complicit, just that their actions merely speed up the inevitable process of everyone who wants to know finding out.

The leak is the problem, the papers just amplify it.

Bring the noise.
Cheers..............

[Shannow]

Let's be honest a second.  Does anyone really think that steroids and their cousins are not utterly rampant in the NFL?  If I'm a sports league, the NFL is the place I take my business lessons from.

No because, tada, the NFL actually has a drug testing policy that isn't as flimsy as Tara Reid's morals (hello MLB).

[Margalis]

You honestly think people in the NFL aren't on steroids? C'mon, a lot of *high school* football players are on steroids even. Steroids are ahead of the testing curve, there are plenty of steroids that typical tests don't detect.

I would expect football to have the highest rate of steroid use, by far.

[Shannow]

and you also thought Barry BOnds is innocent. Wanna buy a bridge?

[Margalis]

Um, I *thought* Barry Bonds did steroids, I just wouldn't ban him without actual evidence. See the difference?

If I had to bet money, I would have bet Bonds and Giambi did steroids. That doesn't make them guilty.

It was pretty obvious that Giambi was on steroids. His body began breaking down, he had a tumor in his pituitary gland (common with steroid use), he suddenly got thinner, etc etc. If I had 100 bucks I'd wager he did 'roids. But, as commissioner of baseball I wouldn't ban him for that without evidence first.

Are you going to ban Griffey Jr? He has a lot of obvious steroid abuse symptoms as well. Sosa? If you ban 10 guys without evidence and were right on 9 of them you've made a huge mistake.

Banning people requires a higher standard of evidence. That is all I am saying.

[Paelos]

Are you going to ban Griffey Jr? He has a lot of obvious steroid abuse symptoms as well. Sosa? If you ban 10 guys without evidence and were right on 9 of them you've made a huge mistake.

Banning people requires a higher standard of evidence. That is all I am saying.

See this is where I disagree with you. Finding conclusive evidence of steroid use, as you put it, is very difficult with the fact that many of the roids are beyond conventional drug testing. I'd be willing to take a more circumstantial approach to really putting these 10 fictional guys through the ringer. I'm not saying just arbitrarily ban them, but run them through the battery of investigations. After that, I'd be happy with getting 9 out of 10 of them.

[personman]

BALCO was experimenting with variations that didn't show under current tests.  It's to be expected Bonds tested clean under what are arguably the loosest tests/policy in commercial sports.

Every business has people who go to any measures to "win".  Bonds is no different than any other backstabbing pill-popping executive willing to throw friends under the bus.

[El Gallo]

The NFL's performance enhancing drug testing policy is a joke unless you are a complete moron.  Bonds is an amazing natural athelete, works out religiously, and took steroids.  There are hundreds of people in the NFL who are bigger and faster than Bonds.  There are hundreds of people who are bigger and faster than Bonds who would lick a NFL general manager's boots clean for a roster slot as a kick coverage guy.  

If you think the NFL is clean, you shouldn't be making bridge-buying cracks about anyone.

[Dark Vengeance]

The problem, as it stands is that the notion of "better to let 10 guilty men go free than to convict 1 innocent" is that letting 10 guilty men goes free means you will continue to have cheaters in the game. Moreover, it sends the all-too-common message that 'it's only wrong if you get caught'.

Nobody wants the game tainted by cheaters, yet nobody wants the accused to suffer what they deem as injustice, complete with due process & presumed innocence.

At some point, something's got to give. Either the default is that some measure of cheating will be knowingly allowed to exist, or it is that you'll run the risk of banning some innocent players in your efforts to protect the integrity of the game.

There's an interesting parallel to MMOGs in this one.

Bring the noise.
Cheers..............

[kaid]

Given the current system for major league baseball and how it was at the time of the offense there really is not much that they can do to bonds or the others. Even if they choose to take it to the next step they will lose because at the time of the offenses there was no stipulated penalty phase for failing a test.

Basically all they could say is oooo you used steriods you are a bad bad boy and slap him on the wrist.


kaid

[HaemishM]

Baseball STILL has no policy in place banning the use of HGH or Human Growth Hormone. At the time of the offenses, the shit Bonds and Giambi were doing wasn't illegal.

Mark Schlereth (sic - otherwise known as Stink) on ESPN and ESPN Radio described what the NFL was doing when he was playing a few years ago. At the beginning of training camp, they'd have to take a drug/steroids test. Randomly during the season, you'd get a note in your locker informing you today was your day to test again. During the OFFSEASON, you'd get a random call saying that some guys were coming over the next day at 10 am to get your sample. And to give your sample, you had to have a doctor IN THE ROOM when you produced it, watching you. So he actually had to look at your junk when you gave it.

Sure, NFL players are on steroids. But according to him, it's going to be hard as hell to get away with it.

[Paelos]

So he actually had to look at your junk when you gave it.

If it was me, I'd hope they had the afternoon off, cause that sounds like a wicked condition for stage fright.