kindle2 - some thoughts on ebook reading

[Salamok]

I find the e-ink devices massively easier on the eyes than LCD or OLED devices. 

Right there with you, I just wish there was a color kindle based on e-ink.  I am fine with pretty much all of the other limitations other than lack of color.

[Morat20]

I find the e-ink devices massively easier on the eyes than LCD or OLED devices. 

Right there with you, I just wish there was a color kindle based on e-ink.  I am fine with pretty much all of the other limitations other than lack of color.

They've been trying. Apparently there's some serious roadblocks -- they can do it, but not for a price you want to pay.

Given battery life and all, I suspect it's certainly their end-goal for the e-ink displays. Not everyone wants a tablet for reading.

[WayAbvPar]

They need a book form factor- 1 side is E-ink, the other is a color screen. Of course, that would be prohibitively expensive, but damn it would be cool, especially for ADD types 

[Quinton]

I find the e-ink devices massively easier on the eyes than LCD or OLED devices. 

Right there with you, I just wish there was a color kindle based on e-ink.  I am fine with pretty much all of the other limitations other than lack of color.

They've been trying. Apparently there's some serious roadblocks -- they can do it, but not for a price you want to pay.

Given battery life and all, I suspect it's certainly their end-goal for the e-ink displays. Not everyone wants a tablet for reading.

I saw a demo of a color e-ink display a year or two ago, but it was basically the same e-ink core technology with a sort of filter grille over the display to make a checkerboard of rgb "pixels".  Reminded me a bit of the pentile arrangement some OLED panels use.  It was not amazing, and the effective resolution drop from the checkerboard effect was pretty annoying.  I imagine they're working on something better...

[Sky]

With my library the book just goes "poof" on its due date.

Yep, no fines for ebooks thanks to DRM *winks at tgr*

[Numtini]

Yeah, simple fact is if most users are on Kindle then I think it's far more likely Library/library service providers are going to cut a deal to get Kindle versions of books to stary relevant themselves rather than Amazon desperately wanting to push a much more open format on their existing customers.

According to our librarian, at the moment, whatever costs are not being passed onto the libraries. They buy a license (or rent it or whatever) for a particular title and patrons have access to it in epub, kindle, and/or pdf. But right now, they contract with a provider for a license for Book X, not what format it's in.

[Sky]

Yeah, depends on the provider making the edition available. There are plenty that work with Kindle, but if you have something that can do epub, you can get pretty much everything they offer.

[Tmon]

Yeah, depends on the provider making the edition available. There are plenty that work with Kindle, but if you have something that can do epub, you can get pretty much everything they offer.

I have one of the first generation nooks, but I only use it when I want to read outside, otherwise I use my tablet running nook software and the Overdrive Media Console software that the library uses. between my local library and the big city library nearby that lets anybody in the state get a library card I have access to more books than I can easily read.  The waiting lists for ebooks are considerably shorter than the ones for the hard copies.  For instance I was number 120+ for Ghost Story when I requested it, when I requested the ebook I was only 10 or so in line.  One of the other advantages with ebooks is that when I get a notice that I have a book available I can download it from wherever I happen to be.  This has been fairly handy this year since I've spent a lot of time on the road. 

The good thing for me and bad thing for publishers is that since I got the nook and started checking out ebooks I have cut my book buying back to almost 0.  I think the last year before 2010 that I bought less than 100 books was 1991 and that was due to spending close to 6 months in the Arabian desert with no access to a book  store.

[Sky]

We're also using Overdrive.

[Tmon]

I don't think I've seen any other company used.  Are there other ones or does Overdrive have a nice little monopoly on serving up ebooks to libraries?

[Yegolev]

The annoying thing about the keyboard Kindle is that an image such as a comic book isn't zoomable, and since the picture doesn't actually take up the entire screen it is a bit tough to read.  I'm very interested to see if the Fire has better support for this, not really for color but maybe the lettering will be easier to see.

[naum]

The annoying thing about the keyboard Kindle is that an image such as a comic book isn't zoomable, and since the picture doesn't actually take up the entire screen it is a bit tough to read.  I'm very interested to see if the Fire has better support for this, not really for color but maybe the lettering will be easier to see.

I do not have any XP with Kindle App for Android (which I presume Amazon is going to ship with the Fire), but Kindle on iOS (iPad), you can magnify images -- it's hokey and nowhere near as neat and pliable as ePub format, but usable. Unlike the Kindle eInk, where comic images (and many charts and tables in general) are simply unreadable, even after tapping the "magnify" button.

[Sky]

I don't think I've seen any other company used.  Are there other ones or does Overdrive have a nice little monopoly on serving up ebooks to libraries?

Dunno, our library system handles that contract. I have almost nothing at all to do with it, and that's fine by me, I like books. I don't have to find a steam-powered differential machine for the beautiful 19th century Shakespeare collection I found.

[Tmon]

I don't think I've seen any other company used.  Are there other ones or does Overdrive have a nice little monopoly on serving up ebooks to libraries?

Dunno, our library system handles that contract. I have almost nothing at all to do with it, and that's fine by me, I like books. I don't have to find a steam-powered differential machine for the beautiful 19th century Shakespeare collection I found.

Sure enough, which is why I don't think print books will entirely die out.  Although I imagine that in a decade or so publishers will be very selective about what is printed and bound, hopefully as the numbers go down printed books will again become durable things of beauty instead of cheaply produced widgets meant to be disposed of after 1 or 2 reads.

[Numtini]

ebooks are a replacement for mass market paperbacks. They're not a replacement for books.

[naum]

ebooks are a replacement for mass market paperbacks. They're not a replacement for books.

No, not if you peruse the Kindle bestseller lists -- it not just "mass market paperbacks", but hardcover non-fiction, and I'd say about 80-90% of the new releases that you would see on the "new releases" table of a chain bookstore sell just as strong on Kindle. Even technical and programming books sell fairly well, which befuddles the snot out of me. The only exception is image heavy books / graphic novels, etc.… But some of these still sell as ebooks…

And the ePub format can handle image stuff -- it's the old school Kindle format that's crippled here.

[HaemishM]

eBooks will eventually replace most books sold. Hardbacks really should be a thing of the past, both for being too expensive and too wasteful. However, I do foresee that B&M bookstores (whichever ones survive) will have to become print-on-demand shops with the only "stock" they have being the most promoted hardcover new releases. Mass market paperbacks should be POD's produced in-house with like a 10-minute waiting period, with recycling bins available in the store that give you credit on your next purchase for turning them in and being shredded and sent back to create new books.

[Sky]

Good luck with that 

[HaemishM]

I'm taking the long view. 

[naum]

eBooks will eventually replace most books sold. Hardbacks really should be a thing of the past, both for being too expensive and too wasteful. However, I do foresee that B&M bookstores (whichever ones survive) will have to become print-on-demand shops with the only "stock" they have being the most promoted hardcover new releases. Mass market paperbacks should be POD's produced in-house with like a 10-minute waiting period, with recycling bins available in the store that give you credit on your next purchase for turning them in and being shredded and sent back to create new books.

It's happening, slowly at first, but as eReaders become cheaper and more ubiquitous, especially as aging boomers and next gen-X flock to the convenience and features.



I believe Bezos stated Amazon sells 105 Kindle books for every 100 print books (where there is a Kindle version). That figure will only grow more in proportion.

Problem is, though, that eBook generation is still an afterthought -- print book is published, and then eBook is produced from that, often leading to a sloppy product -- mis-hyphenations, smashed words, broken links, missing indices/table of contents. I hope this process is transformed, and that the ePub (or whatever format) is used to feed the print process instead of vice-versa.

[HaemishM]

The conversion to eBook stuff is still kind of a weird black box. Many of the publishers aren't doing the conversion in-house, they are farming it out, so they charge the same prices for eBooks as they do hardcovers/paperbacks (or at least that's their justification - the real one being they don't want to cannibalize their main business model). For an indie like me, even if I wanted to dig into the guts of the HTML myself, I still have to provide a Microsoft Word file for Smashwords conversion process (which generates everything from text files to ePubs to .mobi files) - but at least it doesn't cost me anything. Kindle Direct Publishing is the same way AND requires I save a .DOC instead of .DOCX (the latest Word file format) or .RTF. Conversion to eBook is iffy at best. As we move into color eBook readers and more tablet based eReaders, I'm hoping that we can import straight from Indesign files (for layout dependent stuff) and TXT/HTML files for plain old text eBooks.

The greatest part about that crazy chart is that the Kindle, according to reports, only has about a 3-4 million user install base, but in 3 years has eclipsed physical book sales. Give it five years time when kids in school aren't being given textbooks anymore, they are given a tablet reader with their books already installed, and those sales could treble.

[Numtini]

it not just "mass market paperbacks", but hardcover non-fiction, and I'd say about 80-90% of the new releases that you would see on the "new releases" table of a chain bookstore sell just as strong on Kindle

I was thinking more in terms of "if it won't translate well to a mass market, it probably won't translate that well to an ebook."

There will always be people who want a hardcover, but for the most part mainstream hardcovers are sold largely because readers are given a choice of either buying it now in a more expensive hardcover or waiting an indefinite amount of time for a trade paperback and finally a mass market paperback. You don't get a lot of hardcovers sold of books that have already come out in mass market unless they've achieved some kind of "classic" status.

Regardless of whether or not a format can handle graphics better than kindle, I'm dubious about graphically intensive ebooks if for no other reason than I suspect most people will opt for smaller more portable readers rather than dragging around a large tablet.

[naum]

The conversion to eBook stuff is still kind of a weird black box. Many of the publishers aren't doing the conversion in-house, they are farming it out, so they charge the same prices for eBooks as they do hardcovers/paperbacks (or at least that's their justification - the real one being they don't want to cannibalize their main business model). For an indie like me, even if I wanted to dig into the guts of the HTML myself, I still have to provide a Microsoft Word file for Smashwords conversion process (which generates everything from text files to ePubs to .mobi files) - but at least it doesn't cost me anything. Kindle Direct Publishing is the same way AND requires I save a .DOC instead of .DOCX (the latest Word file format) or .RTF. Conversion to eBook is iffy at best. As we move into color eBook readers and more tablet based eReaders, I'm hoping that we can import straight from Indesign files (for layout dependent stuff) and TXT/HTML files for plain old text eBooks.

The greatest part about that crazy chart is that the Kindle, according to reports, only has about a 3-4 million user install base, but in 3 years has eclipsed physical book sales. Give it five years time when kids in school aren't being given textbooks anymore, they are given a tablet reader with their books already installed, and those sales could treble.

With a $79 dollar version (and predictions are, that they might actually be "free" soon), Amazon is indeed embarking upon a "Kindle the People"™ campaign that makes ereaders ubiquitous, and a flourishing market across all demographics, not just nerds and aging boomers who inaugurate a reading renaissance with easy "increase font size" tap.

Some of the tools do this rather well -- on the Mac, Scrivner (a great authoring word processor that features a "corkboard" (think old school index card organization)) makes it drop dead simple to export your book to ePub, Kindle, etc.…

[Reg]

Anyone have any thoughts on the new Kobo Vox? Based on its specs it looks to me like something I'd prefer over the new Kindle tablet (which I can't have anyway being in Canada).  It handles the EPUB book format and can take up a 32 gig SD card for storage expansion. Aside from that it looks to be basically the same as the Kindle Fire even down to the 200 dollar price tag.  It's coming out at the end of October.

I'm tempted to pick one up on opening day so if someone knows something terrible about it let me know!

[Tmon]

I think I've been reading too many e-books.  Last night while I was reading a hard copy book, I tried to turn the page by tapping it.

[Zaljerem]

Anyone have any thoughts on the new Kobo Vox? Based on its specs it looks to me like something I'd prefer over the new Kindle tablet (which I can't have anyway being in Canada).  It handles the EPUB book format and can take up a 32 gig SD card for storage expansion. Aside from that it looks to be basically the same as the Kindle Fire even down to the 200 dollar price tag.  It's coming out at the end of October.

I'm tempted to pick one up on opening day so if someone knows something terrible about it let me know!

I can't speak on that particular model of Kobo, but my Kobo wifi has been a solid ePub reader. It does PDF (cumbersome) and CBR (no color, so meh).

The Vox, with color, more memory, more feartures will probably be a natural upgrade for me.
Between my Kobo and Calibre I'm generally a pretty *happy camper*.

[Ginaz]

I'm looking to buy my parents an eBook reader for Christmas this year and would like some advice on which one would be best for them.  I was thinking of just giving them the Asus Transformer I got awhile ago but I want to keep things as simple as possible since both of them aren't good with technology (my mother can barely use a mouse) and just have it used for reading books.  I didn't realize both the Kindle and Nook had to be purchased from their sites so neither one would get here in time before I leave to go home.  I'd like to set everything up for them before I give it to them, too.  So that leaves basically whats available at Best Buy/Future Shop.  It looks like its either going to be a Kobo or Sony product.  Both of my parents wear glasses so the screen would have to be clear and easy to read with large print.  Ease of use is another big factor because once I go home I don't want to keep getting phone calls from them when they can't figure out how it works like I do with the laptop and computer I bought them the last few years.  Finally, there would have to be a large enough number of eBooks available, esp. fiction because thats what they primarily read.  Advice, suggestions?  Thanks.

[Evildrider]

I'm looking to buy my parents an eBook reader for Christmas this year and would like some advice on which one would be best for them.  I was thinking of just giving them the Asus Transformer I got awhile ago but I want to keep things as simple as possible since both of them aren't good with technology (my mother can barely use a mouse) and just have it used for reading books.  I didn't realize both the Kindle and Nook had to be purchased from their sites so neither one would get here in time before I leave to go home.  I'd like to set everything up for them before I give it to them, too.  So that leaves basically whats available at Best Buy/Future Shop.  It looks like its either going to be a Kobo or Sony product.  Both of my parents wear glasses so the screen would have to be clear and easy to read with large print.  Ease of use is another big factor because once I go home I don't want to keep getting phone calls from them when they can't figure out how it works like I do with the laptop and computer I bought them the last few years.  Finally, there would have to be a large enough number of eBooks available, esp. fiction because thats what they primarily read.  Advice, suggestions?  Thanks.

If you have a Barnes and Nobles nearby, they sell Nooks in stores.  I think Best Buy even sells Nooks.

[Trippy]

Kindle is sold in some stores.

[Reg]

I'd go for the Kobo.  It's readily available in Canada at Bestbuy and Indigo/Chapters.  The Kobo Touch is probably the model to get. It's just black and white and is a pure e-reader (though it does have a built in browser so you can use it for email).  The advantage it has over the more tablet like Kobo Vox is that its batteries last about a month and it's significantly lighter which makes a real difference when you're using it like a book.

I wanted to get a Kobo Vox for myself but once I researched it I decided its CPU was underpowered for the job. I'll  think about a Vox once the next model comes out.

[TripleDES]

Maybe it's just me, but why is everyone so hot for LCD type e-readers these days? E-ink ones are easier to the eyes. Personally, I've an old school e-ink nook and am pretty happy with it.

[Evildrider]

Maybe it's just me, but why is everyone so hot for LCD type e-readers these days? E-ink ones are easier to the eyes. Personally, I've an old school e-ink nook and am pretty happy with it.

I'm old school, give me print baby!

[ghost]

Looks like Barnes and Noble is circling the drain due to heavy losses imparted by the Nook. 

I find it sad that the eBook readers are going to lead to the downfall of two big box retailers which represent the end of the local bookstore as we know it.  Amazon is beginning to be a real corporate beast, but even they hemorrhage money.  Ebooks are cool, but I have to wonder if all this advancement is going to really be good for the consumer in the end.  I'm sure Haemish, as an author, could tell us about the trials and tribulations of trying to make money as an author today.  I'm going to miss old fashioned books and bookstores. 

[HaemishM]

Old fashioned bookstores are REALLY going to have to change. There's no reason they should go away but they have to change. I've written on the subject before. There's very little reason within the next five years that stores should be getting shipments of physical books other than the publishers and distributors like Ingram want to maintain their stranglehold over the business. Every B&M bookstore should be a Print-on-demand library. Walk in, browse the kiosk for the book you want (or ask the clerk to help you do so), put your order in, come back in 30 minutes to have a professionally bound paper back hot off the digital presses. You might still have hardcover for the 1% of the market that still insists on paying $30 for a hardcover, but frankly the whole market is wildly inefficient. eBooks are just pointing that out in spectacular fashion. I barely sell any paperbacks, but eBooks? With no mainstream marketing and little Internet marketing and having spent almost no money on the whole project, I'm selling 200-400 books a month spread out among 5 SKU's (6 as of 3 days ago).

The music industry is in the same boat, BTW. They just happen to want to blame piracy for their problems.

[ghost]

I know some musicians that make their entire living off of playing in a band.  A big issue is how these guys get reimbursed for the actual music.  They get almost nothing from the sales of albums and iTunes (they have their own label) and have to make all their money off of playing gigs.  I don't think authors get reimbursed at anywhere close to the rates that they used to for hard books.  My thought is that it's tough to make a living when you don't get paid.  I guess  you'll see a lot more semi pro authors and musicians in the future.