kindle2 - some thoughts on ebook reading

[Trippy]

Not available in Europe?

[sidereal]

Safari subscription

http://my.safaribooksonline.com/

[Stewie]

I just found out something interesting in regards to ebooks.
I was reading the Globe and Mail and saw an article saying that the Vancouver Public Library is starting to buy ebooks for people to 'check out'

I love this part The library's licensing agreement means the files don't have an expiry date, and so won't disappear after a set amount of time as other electronic resources are sometimes programmed to do. "We can't encourage people to download entire books and keep them forever, but there isn't a technical limitation,"

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090320.BCLIBRARY20/TPStory/TPNational/BritishColumbia/
 

[Jherad]

Apologies for the necro -

I occasionally splurge on Amazon, and as I was filling my basket with books, it occurred to me that much of what I wanted (I'm on a philosophy binge at the mo) was freely available at Project Gutenberg - a book reader would be nice.

I know much of this discussion has been about the Kindle, but has anyone had any experience with this puppy?

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665562069
(Sony PRS-700)

Apparently has a touch screen, built in front lights, native pdf(with reflow and zoom)/rtf/txt/BBeB/ePub support (with Word docs transferable via software), plays mp3s and displays photos in black and white.

I'm really liking the idea of a touch screen with it - but they've yet to be released here in the UK, so the international delivery and possible customs charges have tempered my enthusiasm for now. If anyone has one, or has seen one, I'd appreciate a view on how they hold up.

[Zar]

The Sony eReaders are sold at the Borders where I work part-time.  They're definitely snazzy looking, and the ability to turn pages just by swiping your finger feels much more "natural" than pushing a button.  Plus it comes with a built in backlight.

That said, my understanding from others who have used both the eReader and the Kindle (I don't have the money for either) is that the additional layers on the eReader's screen which allow the touchscreen capability also detract from the reading experience; there's reflections, and it's more like reading from your computer screen than a book.  Also, there's less than half the amount of titles available for the eReader as compared to the Kindle.

Again, that's mostly hearsay.  It's certainly a more snazzy looking product than the Kindle, though.

[schild]

I have the eReader prior to the touch screen ones. I looked at the touchscreen ones, yes, they do take away some of the readability. The one prior is nicer in that regard, also, pushing a button wasn't too bad.

[Jherad]

Thanks chaps. The touch screen option is attractive because it appears more natural, as Zar says. Also the 700 model comes with text search apparently, which the previous model lacks. Theres still a delay between turning pages on ereaders from what I can see, so the ability to search for text to cut down scanning for a bit you are looking for is nice.

On the other hand, the whole point of buying one is to be able to read on it. Aargh. I'll hopefully be over in the states soon, so I'll see if I can compare.

Cheers.

[Viin]

The new Kindle DX has been announced:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/06/live-from-amazons-kindle-event-in-nyc/
http://www.amazon.com/kindle-store-ebooks-newspapers-blogs/b?node=133141011

Slim:  Just over 1/3 of an inch, as thin as most magazines

Carry Your Library: Holds up to 3,500 books, periodicals, and documents

Beautiful Large Display: 9.7" diagonal e-ink screen reads like real paper; boasts 16 shades of gray for clear text and sharp images

Auto-Rotating Screen: Display auto-rotates from portrait to landscape as you turn the device so you can view full-width maps, graphs, tables, and Web pages

Built-In PDF Reader: Native PDF support allows you to carry and read all of your personal and professional documents on the go

Wireless: 3G wireless lets you download books right from your Kindle DX, anytime, anywhere; no monthly fees, no annual contracts, and no hunting for Wi-Fi hotspots

Books In Under 60 Seconds: You get free wireless delivery of books in less than 60 seconds; no PC required

Long Battery Life: Read for days without recharging

Read-to-Me: With the text-to-speech feature, Kindle DX can read newspapers, magazines, blogs, and books out loud to you, unless the book's rights holder made the feature unavailable

Big Selection, Low Prices: Over 275,000 books; New York Times Best Sellers and New Releases are only $9.99, unless marked otherwise

More Than Books: U.S. and international newspapers including the New York Times and Wall Street Journal, magazines including The New Yorker and Time, plus popular blogs, all auto-delivered wirelessly

Also, rumors of an Apple touch screen ebook machine/tablet are in the air ...

[MahrinSkel]

I'm starting to become a believer in the Kindle, if not necessarily in eBooks.  As a go-anywhere web appliance, the Kindle seems to be pretty damned good, especially the newest version from that announcement.  Not so expensive and delicate as to make me cringe at the thought of dropping it, but a big enough display to be useful.  All it lacks is code execution and geo-location services, and I can live without those (especially as it seems to have basic web scripting functions).

--Dave

[schild]

I don't understand the allure of the giant kindle.

[Engels]

I just got a kindle2. I'm not convinced its any better than the first one.

[schild]

Can I have your kindle 1?

[Engels]

actually, its the gfs. she guards it jealously. won't even consider swapping to read each other's books.

[schild]

Worth a try.

[Righ]

I don't understand the allure of the giant kindle.

Textbooks. The DX is big enough to present detail, small enough to go in a satchel, briefcase or bag. It beats a rucksack full of textbooks.

[Mosesandstick]

I've wondered about the academic uses of e-readers. Carrying around stacks of textbooks + papers is annoying, and it's useful when you can go and follow up on other references as opposed to hunting them all day.

[Jeff Kelly]

I've wondered about the academic uses of e-readers. Carrying around stacks of textbooks + papers is annoying, and it's useful when you can go and follow up on other references as opposed to hunting them all day.

Without the capability for annotattions and highlighting I don't think its too useful.

[Jherad]

Without the capability for annotattions and highlighting I don't think its too useful.

The latest Sony one handles both (not sure about Kindle).

[Baldrake]

None of these devices have the necessary input resolution to allow annotations. And text entry (using mini-keyboard or handwriting recognition) is far too slow for jotting notes on the fly. This is a stopper for me with the current generation.

Having said that, though, the Kindle DX is pretty awesome for pdf's. I'd much rather carry one of those around than someone's 2" thick PhD thesis. Great for reading while flying.

[Brogarn]

In the future, one of these devices will have the words "Don't Panic" imprinted on its face somewhere.

[schild]

In the future, one of these devices will have the words "Don't Panic" imprinted on its face somewhere.

I should get that laser engraved on the back of my eReader or on the leather folio.

[shiznitz]

I have spoken to a few publishing executives (parents of my kids' friends) and all of them insist that Amazon actually loses money on most of the Kindle books since they are charging less than the royalty.  Color me skeptical.  Some might be loss-making, but it would be insane for Amazon to price like that.  Doesn't mean Amazon isn't insane in the short-term to lock in market share.

I also find it amusing that these same executives pooh-pooh e-books since "it is only 1%" of the market. This is the same attitude that got newspapers in trouble.  When I point this out, they just say the businesses are not the same - which is true, but avoids the issue. When your marginal, affluent customer makes a significant change in a core habit, you better take notice.

[Murgos]

One word: TEXTBOOKS.

There is no reason why a student shouldn't get a Kindle, or something similar, when they get to a school with every book they need on it.

Yes, it will kill the textbook publishing industry.  But frankly, publishing industries in general (Music, Movies, Games and Books) need to die.

[naum]

None of these devices have the necessary input resolution to allow annotations. And text entry (using mini-keyboard or handwriting recognition) is far too slow for jotting notes on the fly. This is a stopper for me with the current generation.

Having said that, though, the Kindle DX is pretty awesome for pdf's. I'd much rather carry one of those around than someone's 2" thick PhD thesis. Great for reading while flying.

If I was still traveling all over the country like I was a few years ago, I'd prize owning one of these… …not having to lug books (and more importantly all the PDF documents that I would be studying on the plane ride) lightens the luggage load plus free internet…

Yeah, I wish the input was better but that will improve. Funny, first time I touched one I tried using it like iPhone with finger gestures — it was sort of disconcerting, and a strong signal how intuitive touch UI truly is…

[shiznitz]

One word: TEXTBOOKS.

There is no reason why a student shouldn't get a Kindle, or something similar, when they get to a school with every book they need on it.

Yes, it will kill the textbook publishing industry.  But frankly, publishing industries in general (Music, Movies, Games and Books) need to die.

The textbook industry won't care if they have to create actual books or not. As long as they get paid a fair royalty for the content, it shouldn't matter. The actual printing costs are a small part of total costs. Of course, the printing cost per unit goes up as the number of units goes down since there are large fixed costs, but most publishers outsource the actual printing and binding these days to one of a half dozen global printers.

[Viin]

But the campus bookstore won't be able to resell used ones for 90% of the original price while buying them back at 10% the original price!

[Merusk]

Hey, Hey, Hey.  They SWEAR that's a legal issue thing and they CAN'T sell them for less.  It's even written on a sign and everything. 

[Quinton]

I can see the appeal of native pdf support, but honestly I'd want a *smaller* kindle not a bigger one.  I could stand to lose the keyboard and generally shrink the device (but not the display) a bit and then, presto, something about the size of a trade paperback page but thinner. 

Other features I'd like (but are not in DX) include "higher resolution display" and most importantly "display that can update faster when you're flipping through pages".  The slow refresh is fine for reading speed, but if you want to flip back or forward more rapidly, it suuuucks.

Since buying the kindle2, I have been reading even more than usual (and I tend to read a lot) because it's just too damn easy to pick up books.  The free preview where you can get the first ~2 chapters or so is massively evil.  I've grabbed the preview of a bunch of books mentioned in the book thread or by other friends in passing and ended up buying and reading the full books.

The book pricing honestly feels a little high to me, but considering that I already tend to order books from amazon, and I don't pay shipping for the electronic ones, and it's basically instant...

Probably going to stick with the k2 until they come out with something that actually advances the state of the art of the e-ink display technology.  If the DX had much faster refresh it might be tempting for databooks and tech manuals (which, for the SoCs I work with tend towards the 2000-3000 page range -- I kill trees a chapter at a time for readable hardcopy that I can scribble on as I discover all the lies about how the hardware works...), but I really really need to be able to flip around rapidly for them to be usable, and ideally write on 'em and mark stuff up.

[Jeff Kelly]

My dream eBook reader:

basically a thing that allows me to read everything that get's thrown at me at work.

- Reasonable screen update rate
- high contrast and dpi (that's one of the advantages of e-Paper really)
- color e-Paper
- Ability to display PDF documents
- fast switching between documents (great for editing)
- ability to highlight and annotate documents easily, especially great would be the ability to use handwritten annotations.
- size of kindle2 is sufficient
- sturdy design
- wireless internet access for document down- and upload
- with touch screen and interface keyboard is not really necessary.

[Murgos]

The textbook industry won't care if they have to create actual books or not. As long as they get paid a fair royalty for the content, it shouldn't matter.

If the publisher is doing the work of selling the book to the schools they should get a cut but why should they get a royalty fee?  Regardless, their slice of the pie is going to shrink along with their clout if distribution goes from being the critical point for a successful work to trivial.

[schild]

My dream eBook reader:

basically a thing that allows me to read everything that get's thrown at me at work.

- Reasonable screen update rate
- high contrast and dpi (that's one of the advantages of e-Paper really)
- color e-Paper
- Ability to display PDF documents
- fast switching between documents (great for editing)
- ability to highlight and annotate documents easily, especially great would be the ability to use handwritten annotations.
- size of kindle2 is sufficient
- sturdy design
- wireless internet access for document down- and upload
- with touch screen and interface keyboard is not really necessary.

So, the Kindle 5 or 6 or 7. Ok. Just be patient.

[sidereal]

I'm still probably waiting on a txtr and/or a boox, but these stealth readers just got announced and are releasing in a couple of weeks

No wifi or wireless plan so the transfers are all done over usb, and no keyboard.  But it's kind of a cool entry-level reader at $250

Cool-er Classic - Dimensions (Excluding Case)
Height (mm) 183.00
Width (mm) 117.74
Depth (mm) 10.89
Volume (litres) 0.23
Weight (g) 178.00
Screen Size 6"
DPI 170 pixels per inch
Levels of Greyscale 8
Type E Ink® Vizplex
Touchscreen No
Manufacturer PVI
Operating System Linux
Storage 1GB
Memory 128

[bhodi]

Bump! I read this DRM nightmare article this morning. He upgraded his iphone to 3.0, got a touch and all of a sudden he couldn't download his ebooks to it.

The tl;dr of it is that he was told they restrict the number of times you can download a book, period, and that includes when you upgrade from a kindle1 to a kindle2 and when you upgrade iphone or ipod touch versions. It goes through several levels of customer service and they all tell him the same thing, then he gets to a different level they tell them that they mean devices, it can only be installed on X devices and that's determined by the publisher and they don't always know how many that is. And when you reach that number you'll just have to buy the book again.

Uuugllyy.

[Numtini]

I read this last week and found another article iwth more information about it. The actual limit is the total number of devices that an item can be downloaded to, but once you reinitialize a device, it may count as a new device. They can reset it by deauthorizing a retired device, but its apparently per book and it's not a consumer option--you have to call in to do it. Which all sounds like a nightmare.

Contrasting this, I have a similar DRM thing for subscription rhapsody. I can only run it on so many computers at once, but it's by account, not by track. And if I run out of authorized devices, when I go to set it up on a new PC, it asks me which other one I want to deauthorize.

I suspect they never really anticipated it because they were thinking of kindle as an object that would rarely be replaced, not a service that would be used by multiple devices, some of which might be reinstalled.

I have major technolust for a kindle, but I'm just not sure it's all there yet. I'll probably give in eventually.

[Numtini]

Short version of this post is the price on the Kindle 2 has been dropped to $299.

I would never buy anything with DRM, particularly books, unless the price was trivial. Yesterday I picked up a copy of Ringworld and read a few chapters. That book was purchased almost 30 years ago and I am extremely dubious that anything I bought with a kindle would be available to me 3 years from now without a call to customer support and a lot of arguing, nevermind 30 years from now

Mea Culpa. I'm a very happy Kindle 2 owner. My guild's raid leader was talking hers up and then I saw someone reading one on the train while on vacation and was just amazed by the screen clarity. I held out a month and kept looking at the thing and finally ordered it. What pushed me over the edge was not being able to find a copy of a book I know that I have among the thousands in our basement. Even arguing with CSR about a DRM'd book has to be easier than this. Good thing I waited as I qualified for Amazon's unspoken 30 day price guarantee.

Having had it a week, I'm sold on the kindle. My views would be almost word for word Quinton's. I started reading the book rather than reading the kindle wow tech in about ten minutes. It feels very natural. I keep thinking it would be nicer without that extra keyboard. Maybe they need a "lite" sample that is USB only with no keyboard. Also the ability to download a sample, generally the first chapter, is an excellent feature. I'm not sure if it will cost me more because I'll try things and get hooked or save money because I have a stack of books that sounded good, but I didn't get past page ten on or that I ordered because I was putting in an amazon order and might as well pick up this and that since shipping was free and got lost somewhere in our stacks and stacks of books.

I don't view it as a replacement for books in total, but I view it as a replacement for most of my purchases which are mass market paper--usually mysteries or sf/fantasy. Oddly, what I can't imagine reading on it is a textbook or a manual. Too many graphics, too much formatting with sidebars and such too much paging through looking for something. I'd have killed for this when I was dragging my Riverside Shakespeare and Riverside Chaucer around though.

Since getting it I've also become aware of the availability of ebooks that aren't available on the kindle. (Search for 13130 and torrent.) I have recreated probably 90% of my entire library going back to stuff I bought when I was in elementary school. I find it ironic that some of the files have a notice that you should only use them to "back up" books you already own, which is exactly what I'm doing.

Converting PDFs is very easy, just load them into Mobi creator and export them as a mobi prc file and move that to the kindle. I use Calibre for managing my library and if you're not picky about formatting it will mass convert pdfs. On pdf conversions, mobi converts the pdf to an html file, then assembles the html file into a prc book file. I usually clean up the html a bit and if it doesn't have one I grab the book cover. I have it down to a science: replace all the paragraph and line breaks with p/ tags, dedupe the p/ tags, remove all paragraph returns, put new ones in after ever p/ tag. I'm picky.