Mass Effect 2 *spoilers around pg 29/30*

[Velorath]

Reviews were poor apparently, but hey its an iPhone game.

The gameplay was crap, but it was fairly easy to get through at least.  It's version of the dialog choices isn't bad though.  Honestly, the story doesn't really give any insight into Cerberus.  It's just about Jacob uncovering a Batarian plot with the help of Miranda who remains fairly mysterious throughout the story.  I liked that it gave more insight into the Batarians, who prior to ME2 had only been seen in Bring Down the Sky, but all in all it's pretty skipable.

The lack of continuity between what we see of Cerberus in ME1 and what we see in ME2 is one of the few things that really bothered me.  I would have at least liked to have seen an option for Shepard to confront them about the Admiral Kahoku stuff from the first game.  I guess they at least referenced the Corporal Toombs even if it was just an email echoing my thoughts of "hey Shepard, what the fuck are you doing working with these guys?".

[TripleDES]

Some shit regarding Legion, reposting from the SA forums...

Grain of salt and all that...

I seem to remember that there was originally a full fledged mission in between the SR1 biting the dust and Shepard reawakening, in case anyone has wondered where the extra voice acting comes from. I'm not spoilering anything here since none of it made it into the game and it doesn't actually delve into any late game plot.

You started off as Legion, unfolding from a cargo box that you had sneaked into aboard the Shadowthrone, the Shadow Broker courier frigate with your body on board. After a few minutes of sneaking, you start hearing gunshots and reports of an intruder over the intercom. Eventually you met Liara, who was on her own mission to steal the corpse. After a heated mexican stand, Liara and Legion teamed up to steal the corpse on agreement that she got to take it where she wanted(Cerberus). Over the course of the mission, you played as Legion and inquired about Shepard's decisions based on your investigations. In this manner, it was originally set up to allow you to customize an ME1 game's choices through your dialogs with Liara.

After a few short gunfights, they were to finally get to Liara's small infiltration ship, but not before having to take of Shepard's armor off order to get him/her into Liara's containment field to keep the body from falling apart. On his way into the ship, Legion was to be shot and disabled as well as given his iconic wound. It was then to shift into first person and you see Liara close the door and launch her small ship from the airlock. A -NO FEED- was to come up on the screen in red and then fade from view, followed by Shepard fading in and out and seeing Miranda. The game then continued as normal until you got to the first missions.

On your way to Omega for the first recruitment, you picked up a distress signal from the Shadowthrone. Miranda was to recognize it as the ship that your corpse had been stolen off of. It's beacon suggested that it had been adrift for nearly two years. Knowing that agent that had bought you from had left the ship functional and suspecting that it had something to do with the disappearances, she suggests boarding the ship to investigate. Once on board, you discover that Legion had reactivated and repaired himself with the armor that had been pulled off of you. He had then hunted down and killed the entire crew but had accidentally caused irreparable damage to its drives. To save energy in the powerless ship, he went into a hibernation mode. You find the hibernating Legion in the engine room and remove him, leaving you with the choice of whether or not to activate him.

In the end it was scrapped because it was seen as too confusing for players new to the series. It was also redundant to have Legion tell his unique story to Liara in the beginning and then to Shepard again less than two gameplay hours later. Additionally, it was seen as too different from ME1 to have the player's first shooting battles be as a Geth against humans. The comics were given an OK instead to fill the gap and some friend for Liara was created to take the place of Legion.

A lot of assets, like Legion's Shepard Armor repair or much of the unused dialog, were left in game with little or no explanation. In the case of the former, it went from causing a long conversation about how he stalked the crew of the Shadowthrone to "No Data Found." Much of the lost dialog, like his lines before he can be acquired, were just left since he would never be there to trigger them. Other dialogs, for instance he had a long dialog with Liara if you brought him to Illium, never even made it off the paper. Most of the assets were retooled though, like the SR2 Cargo bay that was originally Legion's starting point in the mission. The Crashing Ship mission is almost a direct usage of most of the Shadowthrone's assets, complete with the engine room where you were supposed to find him in up where you now turn the engines on.

Additionally, Veetor was a relatively late addition to the game. Originally you met Tali on Freedom's progress and she joined you from there, but that was scrapped for reasons I don't know. Similarly though, many of her lost dialogs were just left in since she would never be there to trigger them without hacking the game.

[Koyasha]

There were a lot of little things that didn't make much sense in ME2, but the main story had far less massively stupid moments than ME1, in my opinion.  Mass Effect had the whole 'no proof of Saren's involvement' thing in the beginning (what, we don't have security cameras in the future?  Or forensics evidence, etc?  It's not like he took care to leave no evidence, since he was expecting to blow up the entire colony and wipe out evidence that way) as the biggest example of ME1's big 'durr' moment.

ME2's moments tended to come primarily in sidequests, or in the attitude of specific characters, primarily Kaidan/Ashley.  The beacon thing was indeed one of the stupider moments, because that would have been some measure of proof to bring to the Council.  Not to mention that it doesn't quite jive with the story of Vigil and all - how the hell would Vigil and the survivors even have known about that?  Everything Vigil said was an asston of speculation, and it made sense from their point of view.  Retconning a Collector into one of the beacons makes very little sense at all, breaking the logic from which they knew only what it was reasonable for them to know from their point in the story.

The lack of being able to follow up on Cerberus stuff some more was also a little gripe.  But Ashley/Kaidan's reaction with their going ballistic when they learn I'm with Cerberus (Gee, y'know, YOU didn't bring me back to life) and their 'I'm loyal to the Alliance, always, no matter what' (except that time I mutinied with you and stole the Normandy) thing.

Another thing I may have missed but I don't think I did so it feels like it was just missing, is a more detailed explanation of what the hell happened between Cerberus and the Migrant Fleet.  You'd think someone would have wanted to give me the full story, whether it was Miranda supporting Cerberus' actions or Tali explaining exactly what they did, but it's all very vague.


The story overall was quite good to me, the major weak points were in some of the characters and how little interaction we get with them.  Liara and how little we interact with her (especially if she's a carryover romance from ME1, it's astonishingly little interaction) which goes double for Kaidan/Ashley.  Even Garrus and Tali, at least if you don't romance them, seem to have far too little interaction.  I mean, shit, I felt more connected with Doctor Chakwas because of that one scene with the brandy than I did with Garrus or Tali, really.

Now, the Normandy overall felt awesome.  The interaction with various crew members - and then the random conversations they have when you're passing by - made it feel alive, and not like the first Normandy, which could just as easily have been only the first deck and not lost anything particularly significant.  And as a final note, I really liked Kelly and wish there had been more interaction with her.  It would have been nice to get to know her better, with or without the flirting/romantic aspects, and it would also have been nice if the flirting had led to a real relationship.

[Venkman]

Interesting hearing people's experiences. I was totally Cerberus' boy in this game, so much so I didn't like the three options I had at the end of the final conversation with Illusive Man (which were all variants on flipping him the bird). Probably in part because I didn't ever experience whatever atrocities they committed in ME1. So when I finish that, I'll probably be all pissed off at the decisions I made in 2. In any case, Legion went right to Illusive Man as soon as I brought him to Normandy, I went the neutron option route, and in general had a cordial relationship with the guy even when dealing with the rest of the crew. Which btw, you'd have thought Miranda of all people woulda been supportive of what turned out to be a wholly reviled decision...

So I never had a chance to play Legion nor get to know his story. Which feels big enough I should go back and play it again

[tmp]

There were a lot of little things that didn't make much sense in ME2, but the main story had far less massively stupid moments than ME1, in my opinion.  Mass Effect had the whole 'no proof of Saren's involvement' thing in the beginning (what, we don't have security cameras in the future?  Or forensics evidence, etc?  It's not like he took care to leave no evidence, since he was expecting to blow up the entire colony and wipe out evidence that way) as the biggest example of ME1's big 'durr' moment.

Hmm but if that's the big moment of stupid in ME1, then doesn't ME2 repeat it and take it even further? I mean, the whole "people disappear without a trace so we can do nothing" thing they make big fuss about, even though you actually run into some evidence on your first plot-related mission (because it turns out there are security cameras in the future after all) not to mention the gigantic spaceship parking right nearby... something that's generally not possible in ME verse since like their Codex says, the larger ships don't have the power plant powerful enough to allow stuff bigger than frigate to touch down in such manner.

On Cerberus & Migrant Fleet, i believe it's described in detail in one of the novels (the latter one, i think?) so that's probably why they don't elaborate on it; similar how Jacob's past isn't delved into because the details are in another game.

[Koyasha]

Hmm but if that's the big moment of stupid in ME1, then doesn't ME2 repeat it and take it even further? I mean, the whole "people disappear without a trace so we can do nothing" thing they make big fuss about, even though you actually run into some evidence on your first plot-related mission (because it turns out there are security cameras in the future after all) not to mention the gigantic spaceship parking right nearby... something that's generally not possible in ME verse since like their Codex says, the larger ships don't have the power plant powerful enough to allow stuff bigger than frigate to touch down in such manner.

On Cerberus & Migrant Fleet, i believe it's described in detail in one of the novels (the latter one, i think?) so that's probably why they don't elaborate on it; similar how Jacob's past isn't delved into because the details are in another game.

That's a good point to some degree, but we can assume that the Collectors specifically intend to leave no evidence, and they use their advanced technology to clean up after the fact.  This does leave some plot holes with Veetor, but it's a lot less of a leap than Saren who was counting on destroying the colony as his means of cleaning up and then there mysteriously being no evidence even though the colony wasn't destroyed.

As for Cerberus and the Migrant Fleet, yeah, I haven't read the other novel (didn't even know about it until after the game released, cause I hadn't been paying close attention to ME news in order to avoid spoilers) so if that's in the book then I get it.  Although I will say that when questioned in ME1, Captain Anderson gives more details about the events of the first novel than Tali or Miranda give about the Migrant Fleet stuff.  A Captain Anderson-like recap would have filled that gap perfectly, for me.

I also did not like the responses available to the Illusive Man at the end, whatever your choices at the end.  Especially the ones where Shepard implies that he's not committed to defeating the Reapers, since so far he hasn't really shown the kind of disbelief of anything you tell them - even after you have reasonably good first-hand information - that the Council and the Ambassador had in the first one.  On the other hand, I have no doubt that he's going to jackass me in ME3 in some way or another, just like the Council and the Alliance jackass me in ME2.  And yeah, Miranda's response to that didn't make much sense either.

[tmp]

I also did not like the responses available to the Illusive Man at the end, whatever your choices at the end.  Especially the ones where Shepard implies that he's not committed to defeating the Reapers, since so far he hasn't really shown the kind of disbelief of anything you tell them - even after you have reasonably good first-hand information - that the Council and the Ambassador had in the first one.

[NowhereMan]

I would have like more Kelly in this game. She really was favourite female character with Dr. Chalkwad a close second. Frankly she seemed likeable and generally sane without being clingy or neurotic or a bitch. Or maybe I just really, really like redheads.

[Venkman]

She had a nice open-minded curiosity about everything without being niave and provincial about the outcomes. In my playthrough, I was sadder to see her go than Jack.

[Stormwaltz]

Some shit regarding Legion, reposting from the SA forums...

It's complete fabrication. Nothing like that was planned when I left last August (and that's far too much for them to have considered adding after I left).

The reason Legion has dialogue in every mission is because originally, its acquisition could come much earlier in the game. The late game critical path point of acquiring the Reaper IFF was going to be a separate mission. That additional work that seemed unnecessary when the IFF could be neatly folded into what already existed for Legion's acquisition with a few dialogue changes. The drawback is that you're now forced to choose between hearing half of Legion's dialogue (its latter two Normandy conversations) and saving Normandy's crew by heading through Omega-4 immediately after they get captured.

[Engels]

So I'm on my second play-through, and I saved both Zaeed's loyalty mission and Jack's Loyalty mission till my Paragon rating was high enough to get them both loyal while staying true to an altruistic character (in Zaeed's case).

Unfortunately, even though I'm on my very last bubble of Paragon before maxing out, I do not get the Blue dialog option in either  Did they really want you to have Paragon absolutely completely maxed out to get these two blue options?

[Phildo]

It probably depends on when in the game you do it.  I had no problem with either of those situations, but did with the argument between Tali and Legion because it was practically the last thing I did but hadn't quite maxed out Renegade at the time.

[Engels]

Well, if by when, you mean I may have done it too soon, I don't think so, because they are the very last two loyalty missions left for me before the IFF. Its a little frustrating, to say the least.

[Phildo]

No, I mean that the later in the game you do it, the harder it is to persuade people.

[tmp]

So I'm on my second play-through, and I saved both Zaeed's loyalty mission and Jack's Loyalty mission till my Paragon rating was high enough to get them both loyal while staying true to an altruistic character (in Zaeed's case).

Unfortunately, even though I'm on my very last bubble of Paragon before maxing out, I do not get the Blue dialog option in either  Did they really want you to have Paragon absolutely completely maxed out to get these two blue options?

People report having this sort of issue if they play a game based off character from the first playthrough (rather than brand new one or imported from ME1)  It seems that the alignment checks can be much more strict than it'd be the case in a 'normal' game.

There's also this theory about the checks scaling up if the missions are done late in the game, like mentioned.

[Ratman_tf]

On my third playthrough  I pegged the Paragon needle about 3/4 of the way to the IFF mission. Got everyone's loyalty, etc. It does suck that you can't save everyone without worrying about your morality-o-meter. But then, what good is the system if they don't put some concequences for it? I think

[Engels]

Sure, there should be consequences, but not hidden mechanics that have no bearing on how you play your character. Replaying your first character or doing a specific quest at a specific time without any clues that it will harm your character's ability to influence an outcome is just flat out cheating on the designer's behalf. Too clever by half, really.

[Ratman_tf]

Sure, there should be consequences, but not hidden mechanics that have no bearing on how you play your character. Replaying your first character or doing a specific quest at a specific time without any clues that it will harm your character's ability to influence an outcome is just flat out cheating on the designer's behalf. Too clever by half, really.

On my first playthough I let the eclipse sister go. And later found out she was a murderer.  Sometimes you have to make a decision with no info or misleading info. I am entertained by that approach.
You can win ME2 without getting 100%. You can even get close to 100% without doing the spoiler wiki thing, pegging Paragon or Renegade, etc. I suppose if I were a completionist looking to score 100% on my first playthrough, I might be upset. I imagine a lot of ME2 players aren't even going to notice.

[Engels]

Nah, this is my second play through. And sure, I'm all about making human mistakes; that's good story writing.

[Riggswolfe]

Reviews were poor apparently, but hey its an iPhone game.

I love Mass Effect, but Galaxy was a piece of shit. It's barely worth playing through except for maybe one or two lines of dialogue it unlocks in ME2.

[Venkman]

I agree. This is not the kind of game they should have made for the iPhone. Would have been better as a choose your own adventure with the outcome of combat driven purely by stats.

Or Flight Control set at the Citadel 

[Tarami]

Nah, this is my second play through. And sure, I'm all about making human mistakes; that's good story writing.

Death mask (+10% to both Paragon and Renegade)? It's off when you're onboard. I think it's even bugged, so if one of the bars is capped with Death Mask on, you won't gain any new points.

[Engels]

Aha! Thanks Tarami! That must be it.

[ffc]

Just beat ME2.  I couldn't get into ME1 but this is the best game I've played on the Xbox 360. 

I was playing as a renegade but there were certain parts I just couldn't bring myself to choose the renegade option.  Molyneux could learn a thing or two here.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Just beat ME2.  I couldn't get into ME1 but this is the best game I've played on the Xbox 360. 

I was playing as a renegade but there were certain parts I just couldn't bring myself to choose the renegade option.  Molyneux could learn a thing or two here.

[Lantyssa]

Just beat ME2.  I couldn't get into ME1 but this is the best game I've played on the Xbox 360. 

I was playing as a renegade but there were certain parts I just couldn't bring myself to choose the renegade option.  Molyneux could learn a thing or two here.

[tmp]

[Merusk]

I've decided Tali's dying in my Renegade play.  She's too naive and sweet for badass Shepard and she'll cramp his style.

[Khaldun]

Good writing should make players surrender min/max thinking. I pretty much was at that point in ME, DA, and especially ME2. I don't care really what's going to keep me the most powerful people I most need with the best gear or whatever. What's the story I want to tell? And then what?

[Lantyssa]

[Venkman]

Good writing should make players surrender min/max thinking. I pretty much was at that point in ME, DA, and especially ME2. I don't care really what's going to keep me the most powerful people I most need with the best gear or whatever. What's the story I want to tell? And then what?

Most people who min/max these games seem to be on their second or third playthrough.

Already 8 hours into ME1, which I think is 6 hours more than I gave it the first time around. Awesome game. But I think I'm forgiving its issues because I loved the sequel. The Mako doesn't bother me, particularly coming off of Red Faction: Guerilla where the vehicles perform similarly (PC side anyway). It's the elevators... gods, the elevators! Who thought that was a good idea. Fine to hide loading screens, but these don't even do that! Citadel is big, we get it! I loved getting to Feros and having an instant load level change. Equipment drops are sort of a pita but not as bad as I thought.

Ultimately though, yea, ME2 is definitely them learning stuff.

tl;dr johnny comes lately again with a review three years out of date.

[Koyasha]

[Riggswolfe]

[tmp]

I disagree that this felt like an 'i win' magic talk button.  Unlike in DA:O, Shepard's voicing and the fact that she actually makes an impassioned speech makes it completely believable.  It's not some jedi mind trick sort of thing where you just say what you want and handwave, and poof, they agree.  Paragon/renegade conversation options in Mass Effect work for me, because there's actually an argument associated with each of them.

Well, maybe Shepard's voice doesn't ensnare me as much but while in some situations it's plausible, in some others what you try to achieve can be so completely against person's supposed alignment, viewpoint or even self-interest i just can't buy it actually works. (looking strictly from in-game point of view)

[NowhereMan]

Yay spoilers! How long till we can start discussing plot points without a whole page of tags?