Blizzards New MMO

[Venkman]

I'd say we haven't yet seen it for us. Plenty of f2p games attract and retain others, just not at the revenue range WoW operates at, which makes them feel less relevant. But then, nobody else operates in the realm of WoW either, so we'd have to think every other game including Eve was less relevant too.

[Nebu]

But the argument that solo players in an MMO should have access to equal gear because they're paying customers is just silly, and you both know it.  You don't want to play an MMO.  You want to play Diablo 2 on Battle.net.

I've said it a million times already, I guess I'll say it again.  There are reasons why soloers enjoy playing MMO's as solo games.  I'm sure that you can figure these out.  MMOs offer gaming dynamics that can't be found in single player games.  An economy is just one of them.  

As for your other point, why (other than e-peen) do you even care what gear I have in a pve game?  Why does it even matter beyond the economy?  Is it because I bypassed some painful cockblock that was added to the system to help create a class structure among the playerbase?  

What Darniaq said makes a lot of sense.  It explains my gaming habits in recent history.  I play until I have exhausted the solo content in these games and then leave.  I guess when a company decides that they want to have more of my money, they'll stop treating me like a second class gamer.  

[gryeyes]

But you are a second class gamer. You play MMO's solo you are an irrelevant aspect of the playerbase.

As for your other point, why (other than e-peen) do you even care what gear I have in a pve game?

You want gear to be defaulted to you merely for purchasing the game? While the rest of the playerbase actually has to fucking play the game to achieve similar things. The entire playerbase already has equal access to the content. Your inability to achieve whatever goal you want in game is due to choices you have made.

[Nebu]

Irrelevent?  I'd like to think that the goal of any business is to make money.  There are a lot of gamers out there that would spend their money were there more options for spending it.  The question that we should really be asking is: how much does offering a solo play path affect the bottom line of a group focused game?

You want gear to be defaulted to you merely for purchasing the game? While the rest of the playerbase actually has to fucking play the game to achieve similar things. The entire playerbase already has equal access to the content. Your inability to achieve whatever goal you want in game is due to choices you have made.

Do you see something wrong with alternate routes to the same end?  I believe that grouping should enhance efficiency.  Groups doing group content should have access to rewards faster.  I have no problem with solo play requiring a longer and more difficult path to an end result.  I'd just enjoy the opportunity to face a different type of challenge beyond cat herding. 

Offering a wider array of playstyle options seems to make good business sense.  What am I missing in this assumption?

[Sjofn]

Out of curiousity, would you want the same level of gear as the people who group/raid? Or do you just want your own loot progression so you have shit to do?

I ask because the highest level of stuff I do in WoW is 10 man raids for the most part (I do sometimes join 25 PUGs, but it's rare). It has its own loot progression. My gear isn't as good as the 25 people, but I don't actually care because I'm not doing 25s, and it's good enough for the stuff I DO do. If there was a heroic dungeon progression, I'd probably do that on some of my characters and be happy with that.

I'm a big soloer in MMO's while leveling up, by the way. One of my biggest gripes about LotRO is that I cannot do the epic story solo. Even if I've outleveled it by a good chunk, their elites may still kick my ass. I wouldn't cry if MMO's stopped hiding their most interesting story bits behind group content, but I know THAT is a pipe dream.

[Ghambit]

Ummm... what's to stop the Raider from dipping into Solo content as well?  Regardless, the group player will ALWAYS be more "content-complete" no matter how resolved the devs are to catering to soloers.  That's just a fact.  So therefore, there's no point in trying to wave a magic wand and make solo play as rewarding as group.  It's impossible.

[Sjofn]

Ummm... what's to stop the Raider from dipping into Solo content as well?  Regardless, the group player will ALWAYS be more "content-complete" no matter how resolved the devs are to catering to soloers.  That's just a fact.  So therefore, there's no point in trying to wave a magic wand and make solo play as rewarding as group.  It's impossible.

The main complaint here seems to have been gear, which I suspect is just "I ran outta crap to do and they don't add anything for meeeeee." Which I totally understand, that's the place I was at in Vanilla WoW. One could only run Stratholme so many times. 

[Ghambit]

The only MMO elements truly built for soloers are crafting, trading, economy, building, etc.  Beyond that, one can never expect much of anything from an MMO... or ANY game for that matter.  Even a game like Fable or Oblivion will eventually run out of solo content (most times way sooner than an MMO even).  At least with an MMO you're given the chance to grow with the game, whereas most single-player RPG you're just stuck with the purchase.

A smart soloer would just unsub. as soon as they've been through all the content and just wait for a content update.  Or learn to be a skilled pvper, crafter, etc.  Become a gold farmer and corner a few markets or something.  Respec or pop a new toon, whatever.

[Nebu]

It's impossible.

Impossible, no.  Unlikely to happen, yes.

The only reason why solo content doesn't have the same rewards as raid content is that noone would ever raid if they could get the same gear solo.  Perhaps this is a signal to game designers that few players want or enjoy raid content.  Given alternative paths to the same end, most players would avoid raids.  Doesn't this tell you something about current MMO implementation?  My take is that it's all stuck in the 90's.  In a pve game group play should be significantly more efficient.  I don't see what's wrong with this. It rewards teamwork without mandating it.  

Having multiple paths toward the same goal would offer a wider variety of gameplay options and styles.  Forcing players to play the game only one way seems a bit archaic to me.  Mythic got my money for almost 5 years (I quit during ToA's early days).  As a solo player I could experience the endgame in a wide variety of ways that all lead to the same rewards (RR's and ultimately token gear).  Granted, the endgame was pvp focused. 

[Tarami]

I believe Nebu means that he should be eligible for the same loot eventhough he's playing alone, even if that means he has to juggle a herd of rhinocheros wearing a blindfold to match the "difficulty." As is, he can't under any circumstances obtain rewards of the same quality as those inclined to group.

Diku-MMOs aren't really group efforts as such, you don't play with a group to improve the group, you play with a group to get a personal (even inseparable) reward. It's more akin building a toolshed in your backyard. You can build it yourself, taking longer, or pay off a friend with beer to have him or her help you. Some prefer doing it themselves, some prefer having a friend over. The result would be roughly the same in the end.

[Malakili]

Ummm... what's to stop the Raider from dipping into Solo content as well?  Regardless, the group player will ALWAYS be more "content-complete" no matter how resolved the devs are to catering to soloers.  That's just a fact.  So therefore, there's no point in trying to wave a magic wand and make solo play as rewarding as group.  It's impossible.

The main complaint here seems to have been gear, which I suspect is just "I ran outta crap to do and they don't add anything for meeeeee." Which I totally understand, that's the place I was at in Vanilla WoW. One could only run Stratholme so many times. 

Hell, raiders run out of content too.  If you look at the top end raiders, they complete the content in DAYS at this point and then grind the same places over and over for months (or eventually stop) until the next raid gets released.   If anyone, raider or solo player, decides they've run out of things to do, they can cancel their subscription until something new for them comes out.  If people want an endless stream of content and progression, you will never ever find any game that does that.

I guess my point is, I'm not sure what you are REALLY asking for here.  The new raid instances have generally been released with a some solo and small group content.

Do solo players really view the raids as some endless stream of new and exciting content?

[Venkman]

You play MMO's solo you are an irrelevant aspect of the playerbase.

Way wrong. MMOs are as much an amalgamation of features and systems as they are to Achievers who come from a wide swath of lifestyles.

The only reason why solo content doesn't have the same rewards as raid content is that noone would ever raid if they could get the same gear solo.  Perhaps this is a signal to game designers that few players want or enjoy raid content. 

Actually, it's more because these systems all have completely different reward systems in modern MMOs, and mostly because the stats are as different between them as the players who are motivated to partake.

• If you can solo to the end of the levels, it's because the game provided the right kind of drops in the right kind of progression for you to get there. There is a clear end here.
• Meanwhile, raid drops are all about you continuing the raid to the end, and then going to the next tier of raiding.

If a raider takes their raid gear out to the solo space, it makes winning solo PvE fights easier, but it's not a requirement. Besides, a raider in solo space is either there to kill time or to grind something that'll ultimately make it easier to raid.

Other separate systems are Arena-like PvP and BG/RvR large-scale PvP. What needs to happen in these environments are as different from the needs of a solo environment and a raid environment. So it follows that the type and pace of rewards would all be different too.

[gryeyes]

Irrelevent?  I'd like to think that the goal of any business is to make money.  There are a lot of gamers out there that would spend their money were there more options for spending it.  The question that we should really be asking is: how much does offering a solo play path affect the bottom line of a group focused game?

Yes, you are playing a game focused and based on group interaction yet don't want to play with others. You are 100% irrelevant. And in theory i would have no problem what so ever with a solo path that entailed the same amount of investment and effort and offered similar rewards. The only problem is cant see how such a path is possible just making it soloable automatically decreases the "difficulty". How can you tune a solo encounter to being possible for every class yet difficult enough to equate to raiding progression?  No amount of "grinding" is equivalent to raiding. Yet you would be forced to make it the center piece of your "alternative" path. You are not guaranteed gear by raiding. If you fail to kill anything you get no reward. It is not just merely a factor of "trying". And even if you could magically make this happen it still would not be a good idea. It would undermine all of WoW's raiding content. Who the fuck would do the far more tedious and difficult task of working with a group of retards if they can accomplish the same thing by themselves?

You are asking for something impossible while being representative of a negligible amount of people. WoW has tons of content for the "solo" player.

[Malakili]

[

Other separate systems are Arena-like PvP and BG/RvR large-scale PvP. What needs to happen in these environments are as different from the needs of a solo environment and a raid environment. So it follows that the type and pace of rewards would all be different too.

What mechanic would work for separating gear from raids and solo content the same way resiliance works for PvP or do we just slap some sort of  "This item requires you to be near someone else wearing an item of this kind to work" and "This item does not work when near other magic items" or some stupid mechanic.

[Nebu]

You are asking for something impossible while being representative of a negligible amount of people. WoW has tons of content for the "solo" player.

1) I believe that you're assuming both parts of this with no real data to back yourself up.  How negligible is the solo player?  Is there any real way to know this in a world of MMO's that derive their gameplay from an archaic construct of the past?  I contend that the solo market represents a real market, particularly as the EQ and UO crowds age.  Games that entertain this market will have an audience.  There are many people that enjoy group content that would also enjoy having alternate gameplay choices.  I believe both can coexist without negatively impacting the other.  I happen to think that this is very possible to create.  

2) I'm not here clammoring for a change to WoW.  That's a waste of time.  Rather I'm asking why there don't exist more gameplay options than what we've come to accept from the MMO market.  

[Nebu]

What mechanic would work for separating gear from raids and solo content the same way resiliance works for PvP or do we just slap some sort of  "This item requires you to be near someone else wearing an item of this kind to work" and "This item does not work when near other magic items" or some stupid mechanic.

You could simply create a trait like resiliance that acts as boss resistance in raid encounters.  It would make raiders more impervious to raid boss mechanics without giving them an advantage in solo or pvp situations.  Ward gear in WAR contains aspects of this... it's just poorly implemented.  You can also add titles, character appearance items, and trophies.  Crafting drop rate increases would also be a great added bonus to raiding (that is if crafting in MMO's were made to be meaningful). 

[Musashi]

Red Herrings hate America.

[Sjofn]

It's impossible.

Impossible, no.  Unlikely to happen, yes.

The only reason why solo content doesn't have the same rewards as raid content is that noone would ever raid if they could get the same gear solo.  Perhaps this is a signal to game designers that few players want or enjoy raid content.  Given alternative paths to the same end, most players would avoid raids.  Doesn't this tell you something about current MMO implementation?  My take is that it's all stuck in the 90's.  In a pve game group play should be significantly more efficient.  I don't see what's wrong with this. It rewards teamwork without mandating it.  

Having multiple paths toward the same goal would offer a wider variety of gameplay options and styles.  Forcing players to play the game only one way seems a bit archaic to me.  Mythic got my money for almost 5 years (I quit during ToA's early days).  As a solo player I could experience the endgame in a wide variety of ways that all lead to the same rewards (RR's and ultimately token gear).  Granted, the endgame was pvp focused. 

What I don't get here is why, in a PvE game, YOU care how your gear compares to the raiders. Like I said, if you just want your own little progression path, I am totally with you, because running out of shit to do sucks. If you want the same exact gear, I'm not sure I understand why, since half the reason behind the raid gear is to gear up for the next raid, which you would not be doing, because you don't raid. I don't actually care what your gear level is, as in a PvE game it doesn't really matter to ME, I just don't understand why you want the same exact gear progression and NO COMPROMISE RAAR. 'Cause that "it doesn't really matter" goes both ways. Why do you care if I have shit that helps me raid easier?

Also, as other people have pointed out, it's less "raiding sucks" and more "organising a raid sucks." I like to solo, do groups, AND raid. I would do all three, although I wouldn't raid as often if I could get the same stuff solo. It's not because RAAR RAIDING IS ASS, it's because getting together people I like in one place at the same time just doesn't work out all the time, especially as my guild gets older (age-wise).

And to whomever it was that wanted to know if soloers really think raiders get an endless stream of content ... they do as compared to soloers and single-groupers. Releasing a new 5 man dungeon is, in fact, rare in WoW, to an infuriating degree. Besides which, raiders can do ALL the content released by Blizzard, solo, group and raid, so by default they get more content anyway. But who gets the big new dungeon every content release? The raiders. Everyone else MIGHT get a new slew of dailies. If they're feeling really super extra sassy like they were with Sunwell, they'll release a new 5 man dungeon, but most of the time, it's either jack shit or a new daily rep to grind. I can TOTALLY understand why non-raiders think that is bullshit. Because it is.

[Hindenburg]

If you want the same exact gear, I'm not sure I understand why

To play barbie. Raiding sets look cool.

[Nebu]

What I don't get here is why, in a PvE game, YOU care how your gear compares to the raiders. Like I said, if you just want your own little progression path, I am totally with you, because running out of shit to do sucks. If you want the same exact gear, I'm not sure I understand why, since half the reason behind the raid gear is to gear up for the next raid, which you would not be doing, because you don't raid. I don't actually care what your gear level is, as in a PvE game it doesn't really matter to ME, I just don't understand why you want the same exact gear progression and NO COMPROMISE RAAR. 'Cause that "it doesn't really matter" goes both ways. Why do you care if I have shit that helps me raid easier?

That's an excellent point.  Mostly, I want to be able to enjoy similar content without the need for organizing massive amounts of people.  I think you're right in calling me on the whole gear issue as I may not have realized how much I want equality among vastly different things.  If the gear only enables further raid content, then there's no need for a soloer to have it.  I'd just like to have access to a path that allows me to solo more difficult content with time beyond the standard level progression.  I guess I'm just asking for there to exist a solo endgame that has a duration and interest level similar to that of the raid endgame.  It seems simple to create solo versions of raid content that would reward players with gear that would allow them to progress on a solo raid type path.  Perhaps I want too much. 

My typical progression in an MMO is to level to cap and then either reroll or quit.  If they gave me more to do at the endgame beyond reroll, I may be happy to give them more money.  I'm betting that I'm not alone in this as even raiders might also enjoy the challenge of a solo progression path as well. 

[tmp]

What I don't get here is why, in a PvE game, YOU care how your gear compares to the raiders.

The urge to compare dicks is just too deeply rooted part of the human psyche. It doesn't matter how many times you say 'i don't get it' or 'it makes no sense', it's just the way things are.

[SnakeCharmer]

While the rest of the playerbase actually has to fucking play the game to achieve similar things. The entire playerbase already has equal access to the content. Your inability to achieve whatever goal you want in game is due to choices you have made.

There's no real achievement in a game or MMO.  All it comes down to is time spent and how much bullshit players are willing to put up to see the rest of it.

But anyway, while I know Nebu and his gaming habits to make the following assumption (and I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong), he plays until he runs out things to do.  And he's not alone in that regard.  Studios would do well to note that there are more players like him than there are of you.

You are asking for something impossible while being representative of a negligible amount of people. WoW has tons of content for the "solo" player.

These two statements contradict one another.  Can you figure out how?

[Hindenburg]

I can!   

[Nebu]

What I don't get here is why, in a PvE game, YOU care how your gear compares to the raiders.

The urge to compare dicks is just too deeply rooted part of the human psyche. It doesn't matter how many times you say 'i don't get it' or 'it makes no sense', it's just the way things are.

He was right about me though and I owned up to it.  Giving it thought, I'm fine with not being equal to raiders.  They put up with an excessive amount of crap to have their shiny.  I just want a game that gives me something interesting to do solo once I hit the level cap.  The ability to do solo instances with a small, yet beneficial gear advancement path would be sufficient.  I think that having soloable dungeon crawls at cap would attract more than just the solo players as well.  Seems like a nice feature for all gamers.  Soloers have something to do with their newly leveled toon and raiders have something to do when their groups aren't available to do group/raid dungeons.   

[DLRiley]

The problem is the only repeatable end game content in WoW is the raids. I even have the sneaking suspicion that the popularity of pvp servers in WoW has much to do with how little end game content there is for solo'ers. Of course this isn't such a problem WoW is bleeding subs at any significant rate. There just a general level of dissatisfaction when it comes to Wow end game that no one has put their finger on because no one is really asked to think that hard. Again the problem with WoW ultimately competing with itself, since no mmo developer seems to understand the gaping hole in Wow armor, Blizzard can take its time patching the issue with figs leaves.

[tmp]

He was right about me though and I owned up to it.

Yah i was talking in general; but i think that's what --again, in general-- it ultimately boils down to. We can tell ourselves as many times as we want that it's just virtual pixels and how it's not needed etc, but the id isn't sophisticated enough to recognize such difference, and it throws a tantrum at the sensation of being stuck with lesser equpiment. Especially when 'everyone pays the same'.

[Sjofn]

What I don't get here is why, in a PvE game, YOU care how your gear compares to the raiders.

The urge to compare dicks is just too deeply rooted part of the human psyche. It doesn't matter how many times you say 'i don't get it' or 'it makes no sense', it's just the way things are.

He was right about me though and I owned up to it.  Giving it thought, I'm fine with not being equal to raiders.  They put up with an excessive amount of crap to have their shiny.  I just want a game that gives me something interesting to do solo once I hit the level cap.  The ability to do solo instances with a small, yet beneficial gear advancement path would be sufficient.  I think that having soloable dungeon crawls at cap would attract more than just the solo players as well.  Seems like a nice feature for all gamers.  Soloers have something to do with their newly leveled toon and raiders have something to do when their groups aren't available to do group/raid dungeons.   

I absolutely would love for this to happen, and I don't actually think it is Impossible like some others here. It's less impossible and more that there's no will among devs to take a chance on the time involved in making some. But, as you said, it's not just soloers that would use that content, and I hope that realisation helps ease nervousness about that. I've already seen people on this board say the only thing they log in to do right now is Ulduar and nothing else, because there's nothing else for them to really *do*, because I'm apparently one of the only people in the world who doesn't totally hate the Argent Tournament (although I don't think it's really that good, either).

[Merusk]

The people saying there's nothing else to do also aren't achievement whores.  Those little dings fucking tickle my achiever complex in a very pleasing way.

The pisser for the soloer is the solo content in WoW that's added later in the game life (like Argent Tournament) is going to take you a shit ton longer to complete than it ever will the raider.  Even with the same /played hours I will cream you in completion simply because I raid.  I cream over-world mobs in 2-3 hits right now. Folks in solo-obtainable gear will kill one mob in the time I've killed 5+.

There's no reason to not have multiple achievement paths.  None. It's a video game, folks.

I also disagree that NOBODY would raid if equal gear were obtainable solo.  I like seeing the bosses, the environments and learning the encounters.  It also gives me something to do with friends as a group.  It's running the same thing 50-60 times that gets old.

[gryeyes]

1) I believe both can coexist without negatively impacting the other.  I happen to think that this is very possible to create[

.  

I happen to believe in unicorns. What you have failed to do is explain how its possible. Ive explained why it does not work and that there is no "equal but different" comparing activities that require 100's of communal hours like raiding to anything a single person can accomplish. Maybe elaborate beyond "i think its possible".

2) I'm not here clammoring for a change to WoW.  That's a waste of time.  Rather I'm asking why there don't exist more gameplay options than what we've come to accept from the MMO market.  

WoW is one probably the single most accessible mainstream MMO on the market. It has content for a wide variety of "play styles" including people who like to play by themselves.  Expecting the same achievements of others without investing the time and effort is not a "playstyle".

[Musashi]

I don't think anyone has any problem whatsoever with solo content.  If they do they're dumb.  I'd be fine if the rewards from solo content were passable but not equal to current tier raiding gear.  Sort of a way to ensure that anyone who wants to go on a raid has sufficient gear to do so.

See, I have a heart.

[Malakili]

  I guess I'm just asking for there to exist a solo endgame that has a duration and interest level similar to that of the raid endgame.

A huge part of the duration of raid content is gearing up other people.  If it was just gearing up yourself, it wouldn't last nearly as long.  People continue to go for months and months to get a single piece for their main, while some peopel start bringing alts, other people gear up their mains, etc etc.  

You really can't have all that interesting fights solo, also.  There is only so much you can do with a fight that is going to be done by someone who can not heal themselves,  wears cloth armor, or has a very  "squishy" spec (like arcane, as compared to frost, for a mage).  Some classes are objectively superior at solo content than others, and to balance this content so that it can be competeably by any class would be almost impossible.  I guess the next idea is that you have different solo content for each class, but not you are talking about multiple full length "raid like" dungeons for each class.  Lets say their are 2 dungeons for each class (for "progression").  Thats 10 classes x 2 dungeons = 20 dungeons for them to create, which is clearly unfeasible.  

I mean, there is plenty to do content wise now.  Northrend is absolutely CRAWLING with repeatable daily quests that you can solo.  This can earn you money, gear, vanity items, mounts, and pets.  That IS the solo end-game content, and we are talking about ONLY solo content, not even the very easy to Pug instances that are technically group content but still logistically easy to form up and fairly easy to complete at this stage of the game.

Think about all the changes that WoW has made over the years since its release.  Most of these have been done to make things more accessible, way more viable crafting professions which produce quality, epic gear even without having to farm for rare recipes, summoning stones that actually summon people to instances, removing attunements for the majority of their instances, adding tons more vanity pets/mounts which add uniqueness to your character.   Viable specs almost across the board.  Fast instances which can be competed in less than an hour almost universally.

Remember vanilla WoW?  Having epics outside of a raider was unheard of.  Even the small group content like Stratholme and Scholmance and BRS was in some cases very HARD, and not puggable realistically, and some times took hours even with a good group.  Crafting recipes were relatively rare and the good ones needed to be excessively farmed for or came exclusively from raids.  Repeatable/daily quests didn't exist at all.  Even then it was accessible compared to the other games that were out, and it has gotten progressively easier/more accesible and generally all around more playable for their "casual" playerbase.

That, is a GOOD thing.  This game, an MMO, is way more playable solo than almost any other game of this genre, and that is a GOOD thing.  I'm not arguing for a crazy raid centered only game, but I'm saying what they have already contains a good deal of content for almost every style of player, and that if most of the people who are complaining about lack of content might just be looking at the wrong genre.

[Nebu]

There's no reason to not have multiple achievement paths.  None. It's a video game, folks.

Merusk said everything right here.  It's a game.  If you care about anything beyond your own enjoyment, you're doing it wrong.  Sjofn did a good job of helping me remember this.

Gryeyes: I've already offered up some suggestions in my posts above as well as many over the years in other threads.  If I thought you weren't just waiting to nitpick anything I was likely to post, I might rehash some of that here.  Considering the tone of your posts toward me, it just doesn't seem worth the effort. 

[Azuredream]

I'm not arguing for a crazy raid centered only game, but I'm saying what they have already contains a good deal of content for almost every style of player, and that if most of the people who are complaining about lack of content might just be looking at the wrong genre.

This is where I disagree. An MMO is more like a solo game with the option to group with other people than the other way around.

[Lantyssa]

Merusk said everything right here.  It's a game.  If you care about anything beyond your own enjoyment, you're doing it wrong.  Sjofn did a good job of helping me remember this.

Mostly this.  As I said when I kind of launched this rehashing by saying we all pay the same $15 is that there are other reasons.  Lots.

I can say this though, since I'm going through WoW again on a new server.  I'm slow to level.  Most everyone I know there is at or near the cap.  The people who started around the time I did leveled twice as fast.  My options are to solo while chatting with people I know, or to play with strangers and completely ignore the people I'm there for.  That means I'm just doing quests.  Instances?  Ha!  Either I outlevel them by enough they aren't a challenge or someone is just blitzing me through.  Getting some gear upgrades is nice, but just doing something with a little more scripting and that is self-contained is nice to break up the monotony.

Y'all understand I had been asking for a month to be run through Zul'Farrak?  Just run through, not even doing it for real.  Had there been a way to solo it, then I wouldn't have needed to wait for someone to take pity on me.  (Get to do it again with Sunken Temple soon.  Whee!)  Yet some of you think that's good game design?  In a DIKU it's a damn waste once your playerbase has moved past that level of participation.

Maybe if I reach the cap I can join in on the current fun.  Get in on that grouping I'm "supposed" to.  Y'know, after somehow gearing up on my own after being forced to not enter instances no one else is doing.  Maybe I can drag nine other people on pity runs instead of just one person so I can reach a point where I contribute.  Hope it doesn't take nine months to gather that group.  That's if I can make it that long.

So let me ask in all earnestness:  Why the fuck is excluding me from content because of my forced and/or desired solo play a good thing, especially if it blocks me from joining groups when I might actually want to?

[Malakili]

Maybe if I reach the cap I can join in on the current fun.  Get in on that grouping I'm "supposed" to.  Y'know, after somehow gearing up on my own after being forced to not enter instances no one else is doing.  Maybe I can drag nine other people on pity runs instead of just one person so I can reach a point where I contribute.  Hope it doesn't take nine months to gather that group.  That's if I can make it that long.

So let me ask in all earnestness:  Why the fuck is excluding me from content because of my forced and/or desired solo play a good thing, especially if it blocks me from joining groups when I might actually want to?

What are you talking about?  You can level 1-80 by yourself no problem.  If you are really complaining about not seeing 4+ year old mediocre instanced group content while you are leveling, then I don't know what to tell you.  Asking to get run through ZF for a month?  Hell you can level 1-80 in a month without making a big deal of it.  Once you hit 80, if you want to find groups for heroics, there are people doing them all the time, and you'll be able to pretty much gear yourself up enough leveling to 80 that you will be ready for them without having to "farm instances" no one is doing.

What content are you being excluded from?  I really have no idea where you are going with this post.