CAT5 question

[shiznitz]

My new house have CAT5 outlets in every room. Each CAT5 panel also has a phone jack.  Does this mean that my house is ethernet ready too or do I have to thread ethernet as well?  I am trying to avoid wifi.

[Engels]

man I wish my cats had a phone jack too. That'd rule.

oh wait, CAT 5. Gocha. Uhm, it would be monumentally silly of the builders to put in ethernet jacks in the walls and not have them actually wired. The question is, where do the wires terminate? At a hidden switch that connects them all, or what? If that's the case, sure, you can probably hook up an ethernet cable to your DSL/Cable modem and plug it into a wall and get the modem's router portion to spew out DHCP Ip addresses and voila, internets throughout the house.

[schild]

My new house have CAT5 outlets in every room. Each CAT5 panel also has a phone jack.  Does this mean that my house is ethernet ready too or do I have to thread ethernet as well?  I am trying to avoid wifi.

Plug 2 computers in and find out.

[Strazos]

Yeah, is there a router room somewhere?

[MahrinSkel]

Umm....  Cat5 is a class of cable, the *connection* is an RJ45 jack.  I'd certainly hope that there are cables connected to those jacks, otherwise they're kind of pointless.  There should be a room (possibly in the basement, or a closet off the laundry or garage, maybe in the attic) where those cables come together, in a patch panel if you're lucky, a big switch if you're *really* lucky.  If the guys doing it really cared (and it wasn't just a low-bid sub-sub contractor to hit a brochure bullet point) they'll be labeled, otherwise you're going to have fun hooking them up one room at a time to find which goes where.

--Dave

[Miguel]

Didn't people use to run multiple phone lines through CAT5 cable? 

Those cables could be terminated in a phone junction box, to provide modem, fax, etc.

[MahrinSkel]

Didn't people use to run multiple phone lines through CAT5 cable? 

That was its original use, actually.  15 years ago or so, the most common physical cabling for networks was co-axial with bayonet-snap jacks (same stuff we used for RF signals).  But businesses were already set up for multi-line phones (which used CAT5 and RJ45), and as every small business started to network their systems, they found they could use this existing stuff for their networking (it's also much cheaper, for unshielded short runs), if they switched their phone systems to using a compatible PBX.  This is why you can stick a standard phone plug into an Ethernet port, and it will stay, RJ45 setups would sometimes put a clear outside line onto the pair of wires you'd connect to that way.

Only issue I've seen recurrently with CAT5 residential installations is that they use really cheap unshielded cable, and aren't very concerned about how efficiently it's laid out.  So you might get some rooms too far away to support full network speeds (getting 10mb when your equipment is 100, or 100 when it's 1 gigabit).  And you have to be even more careful than usual about drilling holes in your walls, as CAT5 often won't show up on a wiring detector.

--Dave

[Salamok]

Only issue I've seen recurrently with CAT5 residential installations is that they use really cheap unshielded cable, and aren't very concerned about how efficiently it's laid out. 
--Dave

cat5 is unshielded the twist+unused pairs are the shielding, the grade of the shielding has more to do with how many twists per foot it has. 

[Trippy]

Some are shielded.

[Salamok]

Some are shielded.

beyond the odd patch cable how often you running accross that in the field, never...  cat5 that is labelled cat5 will perform to the cat5 spec, shielding wouldn't even be a factor when deciding if your cat5 is cheapo crap.  Cat6 will outperform shielded cat5 and extra shielding isn't in its spec other than more twists/foot and bonded pairs to ensure what is twisted stays twisted.

I would say crappy cat5 is stuff that is prone to kinks (dastardly plenum aside) and broken wires.

[shiznitz]

Umm....  Cat5 is a class of cable, the *connection* is an RJ45 jack.  I'd certainly hope that there are cables connected to those jacks, otherwise they're kind of pointless.  There should be a room (possibly in the basement, or a closet off the laundry or garage, maybe in the attic) where those cables come together, in a patch panel if you're lucky, a big switch if you're *really* lucky.  If the guys doing it really cared (and it wasn't just a low-bid sub-sub contractor to hit a brochure bullet point) they'll be labeled, otherwise you're going to have fun hooking them up one room at a time to find which goes where.

--Dave

Two cable lines come into the house and then get split several ways each and head up the various terminus points with RJ45 jacks. Optimally, I would like to have the cable modem and a router or two in the basement and then thread ethernet cable to all the RJ45 jacks.  It looks like the house is wired to have a TV in every room, not an internet connection.

[apocrypha]

Two cable lines come into the house

Man that sounds like the start of a really bad geeky joke. But I'm too dim to finish it 

[MahrinSkel]

Two cable lines come into the house and then get split several ways each and head up the various terminus points with RJ45 jacks. Optimally, I would like to have the cable modem and a router or two in the basement and then thread ethernet cable to all the RJ45 jacks.  It looks like the house is wired to have a TV in every room, not an internet connection.

This could be really bad, or not so bad....  Are all the splits in the same area, or are they scattered around (or worse, inside the walls at unknown locations)?  If you have a separate cable going from where the lines come into the house to each RJ45 jack, then the worst you've got to deal with is putting RJ45 connections on the end where they are currently split (and maybe extending them a bit), or just wiring them into a patch panel.  If you've got splits scattered around inside the walls, you're going to have to try and use the existing cable as a fishtape to pull new cables through, which will be a huge PITA (and may not work without cutting some holes).

Of course, the downside is that you won't have TV feeds to those rooms anymore (unless you want to fiddle around with using one pair for ethernet and another for TV, but I suspect they wouldn't play nice together without some careful tweaking with filters), and you'll have to have the cable/satellite guys run coax around the outside of the house to the rooms you want TV in.

Best case scenario, the cables all come out in one place, you wire those into a patch panel, then run short patch cables from the ones you want active to your router.  Maybe you need a 8 or 16 port network hub if you're going to feed more than 4 rooms, and you'll need some small hubs in rooms with more than one networked device.

--Dave

[shiznitz]

All the splitting is done where the cables enter the house. This is right where the phone box is. I am wondering if I can convert some of the phone lines to ethernet since who needs a phone jack everywhere these days?

Sounds like there is too much going on for me to rig ethernet easily myself. I am going to have to get some help.

[Trippy]

All the splitting is done where the cables enter the house. This is right where the phone box is. I am wondering if I can convert some of the phone lines to ethernet since who needs a phone jack everywhere these days?

Sounds like there is too much going on for me to rig ethernet easily myself. I am going to have to get some help.

Home phone wiring is also typically unshield twisted pair (UTP) cabiling however it's usually much lower grade wiring than Ethernet. I.e. phone wiring is usually "Cat 1" (not a real standard) while Ethernet these days is Cat 5e/Cat 6. It's possible your phone wiring uses the same wiring as your Ethernet since they were installed at the same time but you would have to check.

[Sky]

you'll have to have the cable/satellite guys run coax around the outside of the house to the rooms you want TV in.

I take issue with this advice. You'd have to be completely inept to have a cable installer work on your house. I don't like cable run outside, but I also don't mind knocking a hole in the wall to fish cables through. But I'd never ask a cable guy to do it! 

[SnakeCharmer]

I'm with Sky.  It's really not all that hard, especially if you have the equipment.  A fish tape is all of about 20 bucks or so, and can be utilized running speaker wire, phone lines, and any other wiring needs.

[Yegolev]

I chose to drill holes in my house rather than let some assbag do it.  It helps with later troubleshooting when you know where shit goes, too.

[Merusk]

you'll have to have the cable/satellite guys run coax around the outside of the house to the rooms you want TV in.

I take issue with this advice. You'd have to be completely inept to have a cable installer work on your house. I don't like cable run outside, but I also don't mind knocking a hole in the wall to fish cables through. But I'd never ask a cable guy to do it! 

The cable guys won't do it inside anywho.  Like Mahrin said, they'll staple/ clip the cables along the walls outside (In the most unattractive manner possible) then drill through the wall and epoxy around the hole after they fished the cable through.  So you get the inconvenience of having to put your TV on an outside wall (so you're usually looking at a window while wathcing TV) combined with the unattractiveness of cable line running all over the exterior.   Yay!

[Miguel]

How exactly does one pull new CAT5e cable through an existing wall down to a box?  I can get into my attic, and I can see the top of the wall's header plate up in the attic.  I do not have insulation in these walls...

However I thought it was code to have a fire break cross member between each set of 2x4's in the wall....so there seems to be no way to pull a cable from the attic down through the wall without taking a hammer to the drywall, which is a major bummer.

I also have a chance to go underneath the house in the crawlspace and put the wire up from the bottom.  I don't think I would run into fire break issues but running cable under the house is a PITA.

[SnakeCharmer]

The cable guys won't do it inside anywho.

Depends on your cable company.  As part of the Comcast service and maintanence agreement you pay for every month, they are required to come to your house and rewire (er...re-cable?) your house once a year if you request it - at no charge other than what you're already paying.  It's not exactly something that is advertised by Comcast, you have to specifically ask for it. 

Hassle them enough and they'll put boosters in your house/area as well.

[Merusk]

That's probably highly dependant on local laws.  I'll have to read over my company's agreement and see if there's anything similar, but I know Time Warner in Cinci flatly refused to do it any other way on my sister's place.

How exactly does one pull new CAT5e cable through an existing wall down to a box?  I can get into my attic, and I can see the top of the wall's header plate up in the attic.  I do not have insulation in these walls...

However I thought it was code to have a fire break cross member between each set of 2x4's in the wall....so there seems to be no way to pull a cable from the attic down through the wall without taking a hammer to the drywall, which is a major bummer.

I also have a chance to go underneath the house in the crawlspace and put the wire up from the bottom.  I don't think I would run into fire break issues but running cable under the house is a PITA.

It is, but You drill through the top plate and then caulk it up with fire retardant caulk just like when you install in a new house.

Or don't caulk if you're so inclined and don't want to pay for the tube of caulk.  Fire code, electrial code and building code says a lot of shit that people blatantly ignore once they own the place.  There's no way to catch people breaking code inside their property anyway, so no reason for inspectors to even try to hunt it down.  You're small potatoes and unlikely to pay your fines anyway, unlike companies who can't afford a "no work" order.

The only time building code officials will catch you is if you're doing something to the exterior or the place falls down.  Well, or you're being blatantly obvious about it and there's an inspector living in your neighborhood.

  You're really not even supposed to be pulling cables or cutting holes in your wall without a permit and/ or licence anyway (most places I've been) if you want to be technical about it.  Dirty filthy lawbreakers. 

[Lantyssa]

It's exhilarating living on the edge.  We can't help ourselves.

[Sky]

The main reason you're not supposed to pull low-voltage wire, despite the safety of doing such vs pulling high voltage wire, has already been covered earlier in Merusk's post. I would try to follow your local codes as closely as possible, for the most part they are there to protect your family and investment.

I'd go with fire retardant foam, or drop by the codes department and see what they recommend. Making friends with the guys at codes is a good idea if you're a DIY-minded person. They can really help you out (that's their job!) and prevent you from making some bad mistakes, and when it comes down to getting approvals or dealing with complaints, it's always better if they know you already...doubly so if you've already shown a will to follow codes on your own.

[Righ]

That's probably highly dependant on local laws.

Its actually more dependent on the contractor in most cases. If they are directly contracted to Comcast, Verizon or whoever then they can usually carry out interior work. If they are a subcontractor, they cannot because the company permits don't cover them and the liability insurance doesn't cover anything they fuck up. At least that's how it was explained to me by the guy that Verizon sent over when we got the FiOS hooked up.

[Miguel]

It is, but You drill through the top plate and then caulk it up with fire retardant caulk just like when you install in a new house.

The fire break is in the middle of the wall (middle when viewed from top to bottom), in between the top plate and the bottom plate.  Hence it's buried in the middle.  If you drill through the top plate, then you try and fish wires down from the top, you'll hit the fire break in the middle somewhere and be stuck....unless you don't need fire breaks on interior walls (no idea).

Is this something others have run into?  Or do you a) run the cabling underneath, or b) rip out drywall.

I'm hoping it's like this:


You can see on the interior walls, there's no cross members in between the top and the bottom plates, so it should be a straight shot down from the top to the hole where the box would be.

[Merusk]

I'm not sure why they'd have a fire break in the middle of a wall like that, as there's no need.  The wall studs, top plate sill plate and gypsum board form enough of a series of partitions to meet code.  The most common exception is in finished basements, where your wall studs are usually pulled away from the foundation so you don't have non-pressure-treated wood up against concrete.  In those cases my company sisters a P.T.  2x2 to the studs at the max partition distance and runs a bigger top plate to fire block the joist space as well.  So you'd still have a nice vertical shot to where your box is going to be. 

Balloon-frame walls will be different as well, and do require some fire blocking, but you shouldn't have any of those on your interior anyway. If you were trying to run the cable down a wall from the attic through a balloon frame wall, I'd have to ask why you weren't coming up from the bottom.

Your walls *should* look like those below on the interior.  The only time you'll have more wood between the studs is when you need to provide blocking for sinks, tub framing, cabinets, mirrors and the like.  From what I can see those diagonal bits are just temporary lateral bracing from the way they're attached. 

[Salamok]

You running a home server or media box?  Wireless has pretty much caught up to most peoples needs, it has certainly cured me of my cable fetish.

[Miguel]

Not sure about the original poster:  but I hate wireless with a passion expect for my notebooks.  I have all of my desktops and my MythTV setups running 100BT directly to the switch cause it always just works.

I have two AppleTV boxes converted to Myth front ends, I have a media server that hosts my MP3 and video collection, and my print server, and two MacBooks running 802.11g.  Everything is wired except for the MacBooks (for obvious reasons).  Even if I have to crawl through the mud or through fiberglass insulation to pull wires I'll do it. 

[apocrypha]

Yeah I agree with that, wireless has always been a massive pile of shit for me. Brick houses, with internal brick walls, lots of houses close together with many people running wireless networks, terrible wifi drivers and fucked up lies about speeds to begin with all combine to make it just totally useless mostly.

[Sky]

Ah, I thought he just meant the top plate. When I re-ran the cable in my new house there wasn't any blocking in the middle. I had a vent near the top of the wall, so no need to open the drywall there (I removed the vent, pulled the cable from the attic, replaced the vent), and then I just fished from the outlet hole. My house is concrete block.

[Salamok]

Not sure about the original poster:  but I hate wireless with a passion expect for my notebooks.  I have all of my desktops and my MythTV setups running 100BT directly to the switch cause it always just works.

I have two AppleTV boxes converted to Myth front ends, I have a media server that hosts my MP3 and video collection, and my print server, and two MacBooks running 802.11g.  Everything is wired except for the MacBooks (for obvious reasons).  Even if I have to crawl through the mud or through fiberglass insulation to pull wires I'll do it. 

If I was networking all of that i'd go for hardwire too.  Over the last few years i've gone from home server and 3 or 4 machines to a single machine and no server.  Moving from desktop oriented stuff to web oriented stuff and dual monitors + xampp + external webhost + VPN pretty much eliminated a need for all the extra machines.  Now my net connection is simply for web access so no need for 100BT much less 1000. 

I suppose some day i'll get with it on the htpc stuff and be back to preferring wires. 

All that aside I'd say if you are comfortable patching drywall and have the patience to match your texture and paint after patching then you can pretty much cable anything in your home.  If you aren't comfy with that then don't try it. edit - and use cat6!