Anarchy Online!

[Numtini]

How's that overused in Conan?

That not being able to be in the same zone with other players is not an unusual happening, but is constant and intrusive. If you have to constantly shuffle instances to get together with people in what is effectively a public zone, it's IMHO overused.

Name some mmos that meet your criteria.

I can't think of a one. Even in Eve aren't the "dungeons" instanced? That would be about as close as I can think of for a game that isn't underpopulated. But generating new systems in Eve would appear to me to be quite easy--you could probably computer generate new ones.

[Yoru]

I can't think of a one. Even in Eve aren't the "dungeons" instanced? That would be about as close as I can think of for a game that isn't underpopulated. But generating new systems in Eve would appear to me to be quite easy--you could probably computer generate new ones.

The dungeons in EVE are pseudo-instanced. They take place in either random or a wide range of pre-selected spots in space (not sure which), but the content at that location is only spawned while you're on a mission. If you're talking about exploration dungeons, then those are similar; they spawn in some spot and only last until their content is exhausted.

You're still in the same "space" as other people - other people can find (and gank) you using in-game tools - but the content in that space is spawned.

[K9]

The downside is that EVE missions are invariably bland and uninteresting. EVE shines on it's PvP front, not it's group PvE front, and there I would agree that instancing is probably more of a detriment when applied to PvP than PvE.

[CharlieMopps]

um... no... an MMO should have enough content to support the servers population. If it doesn't, it already sucks and instancing is just a way to spread out what is already thin. Instancing is counter to the very basis of what MMOs are about, plain and simple. If you want to play "missions" with just your "Friends" then get baulders gate, invite them over... and get out of my mmo.

Name some mmos that meet your criteria.

All of them prior to instancing? EQ1 up until they introduced it... UO... etc...
Eve is another good example... while you might say they have instancing, it isn't really instanced... because you still feel like you are in-system and other players can do long-range scans, find you, and warp in. The first time you get capped in a mission by another player is quite the surprise. I really still don't like it, but at least they don't make it feel like you just walked into a closet and closed a door behind you like AO does.

Instancing solves certain problems in MMOs, yes... But its a crappy, uncreative way to solve them. Take, for example, Warhammer. They have the 2 factions, Then they create a PQ... in some PQs the 2 factions have different goals inside the same PQ. They have effectively doubled the content in that area through a very simply mechanic that doesn't even involve PVP unless the participants want it. You can play the same content from 2 different angles and have a totally different experience each time. The fact that all PQs in Warhammer don't have goals for both factions is a real missed opportunity.

[Yegolev]

um... no... an MMO should have enough content to support the servers population. If it doesn't, it already sucks and instancing is just a way to spread out what is already thin. Instancing is counter to the very basis of what MMOs are about, plain and simple. If you want to play "missions" with just your "Friends" then get baulders gate, invite them over... and get out of my mmo.

Dude.

[K9]

I really still don't like it, but at least they don't make it feel like you just walked into a closet and closed a door behind you like AO does.

This isn't so much a consequence of instancing but a consequence of procedurally generated content, AO was also pretty pioneering in this regard (as best I am aware) and I'd agree the generated missions were far from perfect in many regards. Good automatically generated content is going to be very hard to do in a way which isn't simplistic or bland though, and so we come back full circle to heavily designed and scripted encounters which are best done as instances.

[Ratman_tf]

And Listen, if you're going to make a game that involves SHOOTING and I don't have a crosshair in the middle of my screen when I log in... FAIL.

 

[Numtini]

All of them prior to instancing? EQ1 up until they introduced it... UO... etc...

Though art smoking the pipe of crack.

Is having enough content sitting in High Keep in EQ for 3 hours on a waiting list to get into a group because even with that three hours AFK it was going to be the best XP?

Is having enough content sitting in Guk with every single square inch camped to hell and anything that dared spawn dying within 15 seconds because someone was waiting... is that "enough content?"

Is a server rotation on Morrel Thule among 10 or 15 guilds except for that one Korean Guild that ganked raid mobs somehow "enough content?"

Are you high? Shit, I've had 3 Manhattans, can I have some?

[Trippy]

And Listen, if you're going to make a game that involves SHOOTING and I don't have a crosshair in the middle of my screen when I log in... FAIL.

 

Hey that's me!

There is actually a reticle there, it's just hard to see in that pic.

[CharlieMopps]

All of them prior to instancing? EQ1 up until they introduced it... UO... etc...

Though art smoking the pipe of crack.

Is having enough content sitting in High Keep in EQ for 3 hours on a waiting list to get into a group because even with that three hours AFK it was going to be the best XP?

Is having enough content sitting in Guk with every single square inch camped to hell and anything that dared spawn dying within 15 seconds because someone was waiting... is that "enough content?"

Is a server rotation on Morrel Thule among 10 or 15 guilds except for that one Korean Guild that ganked raid mobs somehow "enough content?"

Are you high? Shit, I've had 3 Manhattans, can I have some?

Should have came to Rallos-Zek with me. When people were camping what we wanted, we killed them.
Like I said before, instancing solves certain problems. There are better solutions, use them.

[CharlieMopps]

And Listen, if you're going to make a game that involves SHOOTING and I don't have a crosshair in the middle of my screen when I log in... FAIL.

 

Hey that's me!

There is actually a reticle there, it's just hard to see in that pic.

Seriously though... I played TR for a whole 2 days before I hated it. But if it had been FPS ala quake/unreal/doom... I think it might have been really cool. I dunno how hard that would have been to keep out aimbots and what-not though.

[Mrbloodworth]

They didn't listen to me in beta. So it failed.













 

[Lantyssa]

Should have came to Rallos-Zek with me. When people were camping what we wanted, we killed them.
Like I said before, instancing solves certain problems. There are better solutions, use them.

And if you don't like PvP?

[Ard]

Should have came to Rallos-Zek with me. When people were camping what we wanted, we killed them.
Like I said before, instancing solves certain problems. There are better solutions, use them.

And if you don't like PvP?

Wait, I know this one!  You sit nearby, making glaring rp style emotes at them, waiting for them to leave, until they get annoyed at the spam and just kill you and your party!  Er, wait, this was about anarchy online, not darkfall...

 I miss the Anarchy Online as it was, around the time the Temple of Three Winds opened, but it was too overly complicated with little to no documentation on anything.  They were going in the right direction (for me) for a while, then they shifted back to the same old crap that never worked for that game.  Go team.

[Ratman_tf]

And Listen, if you're going to make a game that involves SHOOTING and I don't have a crosshair in the middle of my screen when I log in... FAIL.

 

Hey that's me!

There is actually a reticle there, it's just hard to see in that pic.

Seriously though... I played TR for a whole 2 days before I hated it. But if it had been FPS ala quake/unreal/doom... I think it might have been really cool. I dunno how hard that would have been to keep out aimbots and what-not though.

I really don't think true FPS combat would have made TR any better. Maybe if a bunch of other stuff had been different, but then we're just re-writing the game to be Planetside with bots.

[CharlieMopps]

Should have came to Rallos-Zek with me. When people were camping what we wanted, we killed them.
Like I said before, instancing solves certain problems. There are better solutions, use them.

And if you don't like PvP?

You like instancing, you don't like PVP... Why are you playing an MMO again?

[Lantyssa]

I think instancing has its place, not that it is a godsend.  I also think PvP doesn't work well in an environment with Classes, Levels, and a huge dependence upon Equipment.

But then you seem to like games which make applying power tools to your nether regions preferable, so we're probably not going to agree on 'fun' regardless.

[Nebu]

You like instancing, you don't like PVP... Why are you playing an MMO again?

Do I need to explain the answer to this again or can you come to your own answer? 

MMO's provide more than just a venue to kill other players of argue over spawns in a dungeon.  Think about the other metagames and competition that wouldn't exist without other players being in the same world. 

[Ratman_tf]

Do I need to explain the answer to this again or can you come to your own answer? 

MMO's provide more than just a venue to kill other players of argue over spawns in a dungeon.  Think about the other metagames and competition that wouldn't exist without other players being in the same world. 

Sly and me had a convo along the "solo" lines. I used to be a big proponent of the solo gamestyle. I aknowledge "Big world, lone wolf" and the concept of character interaction beyond group up and go run an instance lawlz. But after raiding in WoW, I don't think I could go back to that. I mean, I solo Anarchy Online because all the other players suck ass. If there was a single player version, I'd be playing that instead.
MMORPGs are anemic in gameplay outside the DIKU box. So if I'm not in a DIKU mood, fuck 'em.

[Lantyssa]

If nothing else, I appreciate MMOs giving me the ability to chat while I do my own thing.  That's at a bare minimum without any other interactions considered.

[tmp]

You like instancing, you don't like PVP... Why are you playing an MMO again?

Always a good question to ask in WoW forum.

I'll go with what Lantyssa said -- being able to chat, or even just listen to other people chat and see them doing their own thing while i do mine, that's extra entertainment i get from these games without having to have extra application open or whatever. I don't need 24/7 interaction on level that involves them rubbing their thing specifically against me, in order to consider these games social 'enough'.

[Nebu]

If nothing else, I appreciate MMOs giving me the ability to chat while I do my own thing.  That's at a bare minimum without any other interactions considered.

Don't forget about having an economy to play with and the opportunity to buy things rather than obtain them.  So many reasons why I enjoy being solo in a large world.  You have people aroudn when you want them around and you can solo or play the crafting/econ metagame when you want to be a loner.

[Lantyssa]

That would be one of those other interactions not considered.

There are many reasons similar to that which are why I like MMOs.

[Slayerik]

If nothing else, I appreciate MMOs giving me the ability to chat while I do my own thing.  That's at a bare minimum without any other interactions considered.

IM?

I love EvE and Anarchy Online for stuffing everyone on the same server (IIRC for AO).

[Ard]

If nothing else, I appreciate MMOs giving me the ability to chat while I do my own thing.  That's at a bare minimum without any other interactions considered.

IM?

I love EvE and Anarchy Online for stuffing everyone on the same server (IIRC for AO).

AO had 3 servers, but most of them played on one.

[Lantyssa]

IM?

Games that crash when alt-tabbing?

Being able to talk with someone playing the same game for hints, strategy, lulz?

Being able to make a selective list of the people playing the same game right now instead of a five hundred person chat list all wanting to talk right now and thus not being able to play the game.

[TripleDES]

So yeah, apparently there are plans to move the game onto the AoC engine?

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/showthread.php?t=553916

[Nonentity]

Huh. I don't know how I feel about that.

Half  / Half  , 100% 

If they redid the assets, they could feasibly relaunch the game. But why not just make a new game at that point?

[Kageru]

I enjoyed Tabula Rasa more than Champions... Though in both cases you can't do highly interactive combat (like FPS or even Conan's positionals) under laggy servers and high latency. Maybe one day, but it's never worked so far.

WoW's use of instancing is pretty much perfect. Stories that are designed to tell a story for a set number of people, and where that story has a start and an end, are instanced. Everything else is shared world. PvP can be either. And EQ1's model of contested content is now more or less untenable and remembered fondly only by those who were high up on the food chain.

And sadly those screenshots are a bit too painful to tempt me, even with a moderate interest in MMO history.

[Falconeer]

I loved AO in 2001 and I am very happy about this. Only, am I reading it wrong or that is 4 months old news? I wonder if it's still going on.

[schild]

If they redid the assets, they could feasibly relaunch the game. But why not just make a new game at that point?

There seems to be a communication "problem" between the entities "work" and effort" with the folks who make decisions at Funcom.

[Yegolev]

I just now, not kidding, found a printout from where I bought AO from the EBGames web site for $49.95 and it made me kinda sad.  I am going to smuggle it home and hang it on the wall, maybe.

[Mrbloodworth]

They dont need to redo assets to receive benefits from a new engine. Export, sure, re do completely, that's a good deal of work. but no, starting over would not be easier.

I do no get the instance hate, I think instances have been a great tool in this space, and have allowed a great many things.

[TripleDES]

Redoing avatar and NPC art would already be enough.

[Numtini]

I'm very skeptical that this will ever happen. They worked on doing the same thing with another engine for how long and just abandoned it because it wasn't going well? And now for a second time they're going to put that amount of work into a game that is how old and has how many people in it?