A Discussion on Roguelikes

[schild]

Meh, I can't see EO and related JRPGish games as roguelikes. EO is a (hard) Wizardy-like.

Sigh.

Also, I didn't say Etrian Odyssey was a roguelike. I'm saying it's the type of game a neckbeardy rogue developer would play and would in turn be influenced by. Heh. Sorry for the confusion.

Roguelikes include:
Pokemon Mystery Dungeon
Baroque
Shiren (Fushigi no Dungeon)
Chocobo's Dungeon.

Baroque is made by Sting. The other 3 are made by Chunsoft - who pretty much makes every major graphical roguelike.

[raydeen]

My fav was Dungeon Hack from SSI. Roguelike using the Eye of the Beholder engine.

[UnSub]

I used to play Moria, a Roguelike on the Amiga.

But yeah, I do think Roguelikes are always going to be niche thanks to permadeath. Some players love that kind of risk, but it certainly isn't for everyone.

[Ard]

I used to play Moria, a Roguelike on the Amiga.

Moria was multiplatform.  I played it on DOS in high school.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moria_(computer_game)

[Tebonas]

Moria is the predecessor of Angband. The Rogue to Nethack.

I had a time I tried to play Adom with save games (batch files that copied the quitsaves away and restored them). The game lost most of its appeal that way and I soon retuned to playing it the proper way. Permadeath is a balancing factor in these games. Without it they are just too easy!

[rattran]

I wasted many, many hours in college working on the vax-vms port of nethack, and then a C++ roguelike (named kludge, written almost entirely in heavily obfuscated code) that never quite got off the ground. Good times, but a millstone for grades.

[UnSub]

Moria is the predecessor of Angband. The Rogue to Nethack.

I had a time I tried to play Adom with save games (batch files that copied the quitsaves away and restored them). The game lost most of its appeal that way and I soon retuned to playing it the proper way. Permadeath is a balancing factor in these games. Without it they are just too easy!

Moria wasn't.

... save game kept corrupting. 

[Ard]

Moria wasn't.

... save game kept corrupting. 

Funny, I never lived long enough in Moria to justify saving...

Sadly, the first one of these I ever made any real progress in, other than nethack, was ADOM, which I've beaten a handful of times.

edit: removed extraneous details about how I play ADOM that no one really cares about.

[UnSub]

I'd usually make it up to town once to restock on food and then head back down, only to die, curse the game and go off to play, oh, I don't know, Rick Dangerous.

[Ingmar]

Humility is watching the Angband bot program play it far better than you ever could.

[sidereal]

Humility is watching the Angband bot program play it far better than you ever could.

Well, the bot does it by achieving levels of grind that no non-goldfarming human could aspire to.  Like it's still on dungeon level 1 at character level 10. 

It's fun to watch, though.  It's been my screensaver for many years.

[UnSub]

Humility is watching the Angband bot program play it far better than you ever could.

Well, the bot does it by achieving levels of grind that no non-goldfarming human could aspire to.  Like it's still on dungeon level 1 at character level 10. 

It's fun to watch, though.  It's been my screensaver for many years.

This was my experience of Angband too - watching a bot play.

[Samwise]

Humility is watching the Angband bot program play it far better than you ever could.

Well, the bot does it by achieving levels of grind that no non-goldfarming human could aspire to.  Like it's still on dungeon level 1 at character level 10. 

It's fun to watch, though.  It's been my screensaver for many years.

Just googled "Angband screensaver" and found what you're talking about.  OMG.  I've been looking for a screensaver like this for forever.    

[schild]

I can not get angband to run in vista64. Do want screensaver.

[Ratman_tf]

I put this on my computer, but I can't get the 32x32 tile graphics to work. Any insights?

I've got angband 3.0.6

[sidereal]

I got 309b running on Vista64 with no problems, but the screensaver is incredibly finicky to get going.

You have to put angband in the default location (c:\games\angband301\ or something like that) because the screensaver doesn't honor the angband.ini file in c:\windows (probably a vista security feature for not being able to read files from the windows directory).  You also have to prime the pump by starting up the game yourself, setting the cheat_live option (press '=', then 5, then turn on the cheat death option), and creating a character with the name of Saver.  Otherwise the bot gets stuck at character creation.

Once I got that all setup, it's running fine though.

[Nonentity]

Been farting around with some graphical Roguelikes at work.

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup - This is an open-source continuation of the Dungeon Crawl roguelike. There is an ascii, as well as a graphical 'tiles' version available. The tiles version is quite good, you can use the mouse for a lot of the interface (left click on items to loot them, left click to move to a square, right-click to inspect an item, etc.) - there's still some functions innately bound to the keyboard, but it's fun nonetheless. I suck terribly at roguelikes, and this is actually quite difficult.

Gearhead 2 - I downloaded this one, but haven't actually played it yet. Supposedly, from the screenshots, it's a mecha Roguelike. Can't go wrong there, right?

[rattran]

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup - This is an open-source continuation of the Dungeon Crawl roguelike. There is an ascii, as well as a graphical 'tiles' version available. The tiles version is quite good, you can use the mouse for a lot of the interface (left click on items to loot them, left click to move to a square, right-click to inspect an item, etc.) - there's still some functions innately bound to the keyboard, but it's fun nonetheless. I suck terribly at roguelikes, and this is actually quite difficult.

I played this a bit last night, it's quite fun. Seems a bit easier in some ways than the last version of Nethack (3.4.3) but much easier to almost instantly die. ie, drop down a level, surrounded by mobs, boom dead. Or one-hit crit from a mob. And some interesting race/class/skill interplay.  Definitely worth a look for any roguelike fan.

[rask]

I used to play Angband all the time in that fuzzy junior high-high school period before I got into muds. Definitely going to grab it for a screensaver (don't even remember an option for an bot mode).

[Nonentity]

Been playing the crud out of Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup, even schild was on the bandwagon with it earlier.

My last character, a Demigod Venom Mage (Venom Mages are surprisingly durable, in that you just cast a venom on them from afar, and then kite them away as they die from the DoT) was killed by the ghost of a previous character. Since I'm lazy and I've been naming all my characters Non, I don't know which one it was that killed me. He kicked my ass pretty hard, though.

[schild]

Anyone up for a stonesoupathon?

Maybe I make a subforum and we post diaries of our crappy daily exploits?

[Nonentity]

Stoooone Souuuuup

EDIT: I was playing an older version of it at work. The one I've been linking everyone else to is a much more up to date version.

[schild]

Awesome.

[Xerapis]

I'm personally quite amused by...

Nothing quivered.

obligatory "that's what she said"

[Nonentity]

I've found different floors that have totally partitioned spaces, that don't even connect. If you take one stairway down, you'll be in one area, and another stairway to another.

[Moaner]

Stone Soup is all I've played for almost a week now.  I can't fucking stop!!

Troll Beserker is all love.  I love ripping things to pieces with my bare hands and then eating their guts.  Mmmm!  That meat tastes delicious!

[Yegolev]

Troll Beserker is all love.  I love ripping things to pieces with my bare hands and then eating their guts.  Mmmm!  That meat tastes delicious!

I missed this in the original review.  I should download.

[Moaner]

Anyone up for a stonesoupathon?

Maybe I make a subforum and we post diaries of our crappy daily exploits?

Please!  That would be wonderful.  I'll be playing this shit for a LONG time.  That fucking Orb of Zot will be mine motherfuckers!

[Nonentity]

Terrifying!

[Yegolev]

I loaded up the tiles version of Stone Soup and immediately decided that this is where roguelikes should be going.  Meaning, there's no reason a bat should look like a letter b anymore... as far as I know and "pixel art is hard" aside.  Matt was saying something about that but I think he was going on about 3D.

[Nonentity]

I like the 'morgue' file for all of your character. This is my best run yet I just had, I died in the Orcish Mines to a horde of orcs and sheep (?).

Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.4.5 (crawl-ref) character file.

5684 Non the Cleaver (level 10, -3/132 HPs)
             Began as a Hill Orc Berserker on Jan 21, 2009.
             Was a High Priest of Trog.
             Slain by an orc warrior
             ... wielding an orcish hand axe (11 damage)
             ... on Level 3 of the Orcish Mines.
             The game lasted 02:51:18 (14237 turns).

Non the Cleaver (Hill Orc Berserker)            Turns: 14237, Time: 02:51:18

HP  -3/132       AC  5     Str 32      Exp: 10/6332 (328), need: 1428
MP   6/6         EV 15     Int  6      God: Trog *****
Gold 1252        SH  0     Dex  8 (10) Spells:  0 memorised,  9 levels left

Res.Fire  : . . .   See Invis. : .   g - +0,+4 orc hand axe
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : .   i - +1 robe of Perpetual Drought
Life Prot.: + . .   Conserve   : .   (no shield)
Res.Poison: .       Res.Corr.  : .   J - +0 spiked helmet
Res.Elec. : .       Clarity    : .   L - +0 cloak
                                     (no gloves)
Sust.Abil.: .       Rnd.Telep. : .   (no boots)
Res.Mut.  : +       Ctrl.Telep.: .   e - amulet "Chainiem"
Res.Slow  : .       Levitation : .   C - +4 ring of strength
Saprovore : + . .   Ctrl.Flight: .   b - ring of sustenance

@: mighty, berserking, very quick, hasted, somewhat resistant to magic,
extremely unstealthy
A: saprovore 1
a: Burn Books, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Renounce Religion


You were on level 3 of the Orcish Mines.
You worshipped Trog.
Trog was exalted by your worship.
You were not hungry.

You visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and saw 15 of its levels.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 d - a -1,+1 orcish war axe
 g - a +0,+4 orcish hand axe (weapon)
 w - a +0,+0 orcish war axe
 H - a +0,+1 orcish hand axe (quivered)
 K - a +0,+1 orcish hand axe
 N - a +0,+1 orcish hand axe
 O - a +0,+1 orcish hand axe
 Q - a +0,+3 orcish hand axe
 S - a +0,+1 orcish hand axe
 U - a cursed -1,-2 dwarven hand axe
Armour
 i - the +1 robe of Perpetual Drought (worn)
   (You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon)   
   It affects your evasion (+3).
 J - a +0 spiked helmet (worn)
 L - a +0 cloak (worn)
Magical devices
 h - a wand of disintegration (7)
 n - a wand of confusion (9)
 q - a wand of frost (5)
Comestibles
 c - 7 meat rations
 t - 8 grapes
 v - 4 rotting chunks of orc flesh
 y - a chunk of orc flesh
 F - a royal jelly
 G - 2 chunks of orc flesh
 I - 5 bread rations
 P - 2 pears
 T - 4 chunks of orc flesh
Scrolls
 a - a scroll of recharging
 f - 2 scrolls of enchant weapon I
 l - 6 scrolls of detect curse
 o - a scroll of fog
 s - a scroll of enchant armour
 x - a scroll of magic mapping
 E - a scroll of random uselessness
 R - 3 scrolls of blinking
Jewellery
 b - a ring of sustenance (left hand)
 e - the amulet "Chainiem" (around neck)
   (You acquired it on level 9 of the Dungeon)   
   [amulet of resist mutation]
   It protects you from negative energy.
 k - an uncursed ring of levitation
 m - an uncursed ring of life protection
 u - a +2 ring of intelligence
 B - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 C - a +4 ring of strength (right hand)
 D - an uncursed ring of levitation
 M - an uncursed amulet of conservation
Potions
 j - a potion of resistance
 p - 3 potions of heal wounds
 r - a potion of confusion
 z - 2 potions of restore abilities
 A - a potion of might
 Y - a potion of cure mutation


 You had 328 experience left.

   Skills:
 + Level 6 Fighting
 + Level 11 Axes
 + Level 6 Throwing
 + Level 2 Armour
 + Level 6 Dodging
 + Level 3 Stealth
 + Level 1 Traps & Doors


You had 9 spell levels left.
You didn't know any spells.

Overview of the Dungeon

Branches:
Temple: D:5       Orc   : D:10      Elf   : Orc:3     Lair  : D:10   

Altars:
Makhleb: D:9
Beogh: Orc:2

Shops:
D:4: [  D:8: =


                    Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You can tolerate rotten meat.


Message History

The orc warrior misses you.
The orc wizard misses you.
The orc wizard hits you with an orcish dagger.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
You climb upwards.
You feel yourself speed up.
The orc warrior hits you with an orcish hand axe!

#.###.## 
...#...# 
#..#...# 
#......# 
...#...## 
#.......# 
#......## 
....#.## 
o@.....### 
.o.......##
..........#
.........##
#.....#### 
.......# 
#......### 
.......).##
#.##....).#


You could see an orc warrior, and an orc wizard.

Vanquished Creatures
  A cyclops (Orc:4)
  2 trolls (D:9)
  A necrophage (D:2)
  7 ogres
  A big kobold (D:9)
  A phantom (D:6)
  A gila monster (D:9)
  3 centaurs
  Sigmund (D:2)
  7 giant frogs
  7 orc warriors
  A brown snake (D:10)
  A warg (Orc:2)
  A steam dragon (D:8)
  3 killer bees (D:9)
  An ugly thing zombie (D:9)
  3 orc priests
  6 imps
  2 wights (D:10)
  2 giant beetles
  6 hounds
  8 orc wizards
  A quasit (D:8)
  4 giant ants
  2 scorpions
  3 sheep (Orc:4)
  2 giant iguanas
  A jelly (D:8)
  4 gnolls (D:5)
  9 snakes
  A big kobold zombie (D:9)
  A giant mite (D:7)
  5 worms
  2 giant ant zombies
  16 giant bats
  8 giant cockroaches
  8 giant geckos
  11 goblins
  21 hobgoblins
  107 orcs
  A quokka (D:5)
  4 small snakes
  A giant centipede zombie (D:8)
  6 giant newts
  6 jackals
  21 kobolds
  A kobold zombie (D:6)
  9 rats
  A snake zombie (D:8)
322 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A jackal (D:5)
  An orc (Orc:3)
2 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 324 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place   | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1     | Non, the Hill Orc Berserker, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1     | Reached XP level 1. HP: 16/16 MP: 0/0
   111 | D:1     | Reached skill 4 in Axes
   299 | D:1     | Reached XP level 2. HP: 22/24 MP: 1/1
  1086 | D:2     | Noticed Sigmund
  1096 | D:2     | Defeated Sigmund
  1096 | D:2     | Reached XP level 3. HP: 20/31 MP: 1/1
  1096 | D:2     | Reached XP level 4. HP: 26/39 MP: 2/2
  1303 | D:2     | Reached XP level 5. HP: 41/47 MP: 3/3
  1311 | D:2     | Acquired Trog's second power
  1475 | D:2     | Noticed a necrophage
  1488 | D:2     | Reached skill 5 in Axes
  1488 | D:2     | Defeated a necrophage
  1488 | D:2     | Reached XP level 6. HP: 29/54 MP: 3/3
  1909 | D:2     | Reached skill 1 in Throwing
  2555 | D:3     | Reached skill 6 in Axes
  3026 | D:3     | Reached skill 1 in Stealth
  3450 | D:4     | HP: 2/52 [orc/orcish war axe (10)]
  3734 | D:4     | Reached XP level 7. HP: 26/59 MP: 4/4
  4184 | D:5     | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  4272 | Temple  | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  4630 | D:5     | Got a shimmering robe
  4636 | D:5     | Identified the +1 robe of Perpetual Drought (You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon)
  5149 | D:5     | Reached skill 7 in Axes
  5290 | D:5     | Reached skill 5 in Fighting
  5814 | D:6     | Reached XP level 8. HP: 42/71 MP: 5/5
  6237 | D:6     | HP: 1/71 [orc warrior/orcish war axe (17)]
  6787 | D:7     | Reached skill 1 in Traps & Doors
  6791 | D:7     | Reached skill 8 in Axes
  6846 | D:7     | HP: 1/71 [orc warrior/orcish scimitar (8)]
  7191 | D:7     | Reached XP level 9. HP: 78/79 MP: 5/5
  7401 | D:7     | Acquired Trog's third power
  7882 | D:8     | Reached skill 5 in Dodging
  8074 | D:8     | Reached skill 5 in Throwing
  8075 | D:8     | Reached skill 9 in Axes
  9227 | D:9     | Identified a scroll of acquirement
  9230 | D:9     | Got a pitted ruby amulet
  9233 | D:9     | Identified the amulet "Chainiem" (You acquired it on level 9 of the Dungeon)
  9797 | D:9     | Reached XP level 10. HP: 22/88 MP: 6/6
 10326 | D:9     | Reached skill 10 in Axes
 11175 | D:10    | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 12539 | Orc:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 12819 | Orc:2   | Reached skill 11 in Axes
 12911 | Orc:2   | Received a gift from Trog
 13903 | Orc:4   | Entered Level 4 of the Orcish Mines
 14212 | Orc:4   | Noticed a cyclops
 14234 | Orc:4   | Defeated a cyclops
 14237 | Orc:3   | Slain by an orc warrior

[Moaner]

My best run so far.  I pretty much suck still but god damnit this game rocks my ass.

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.4.4 (crawl-ref) character file.

960 Horse Fucker the Cudgeler (level 7, -10/59 HPs)
             Began as a Minotaur Chaos Knight on Jan 18, 2009.
             Was a Priest of Makhleb.
             Mangled by an orc warrior
             ... wielding an orcish war axe (21 damage)
             ... on Level 6 of the Dungeon.
             The game lasted 01:20:29 (6010 turns).

Horse Fucker the Cudgeler (MiCK)                 Turns: 6010, Time: 01:20:29

HP -10/59        AC  8     Str 19      Exp: 7/1340 (1), need: 73
MP   5/5         EV 12     Int  8      God: Makhleb ***
Gold 22          SH  0     Dex 11      Spells:  0 memorised,  6 levels left

Res.Fire  : . . .   See Invis. : .   q - +1,+0 spiked flail (protect)
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : .   b - +0 leather armour
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .   (no shield)
Res.Poison: .       Res.Corr.  : .   (helmet restricted)
Res.Elec. : .       Clarity    : .   (no cloak)
                                     (no gloves)
Sust.Abil.: .       Rnd.Telep. : .   (no boots)
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .   n - amulet of resist slowing
Res.Slow  : +       Levitation : .   (no ring)
Saprovore : . . .   Ctrl.Flight: .   (no ring)

@: slightly resistant to magic, unstealthy
A: horns 2, Int +1
a: Minor Destruction, Lesser Servant of Makhleb, Renounce Religion


You were on level 6 of the Dungeon.
You worshipped Makhleb.
Makhleb was greatly pleased with you.
You were not hungry.

You visited 1 branch of the dungeon, and saw 6 of its levels.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +2,+4 mace
 e - a +2,+1 dagger
 m - a +0,+0 sling
 q - a +1,+0 spiked flail of protection (weapon)
Missiles
 d - 48 +0 stones (quivered)
Armour
 b - a +0 leather armour (worn)
Magical devices
 p - a wand of cold (6)
Comestibles
 h - 3 meat rations
 i - 2 bread rations
Scrolls
 f - a scroll of paper
Jewellery
 c - the ring "Sonuotez"
   (You found it on level 6 of the Dungeon)   
   [ring of protection from magic]
   It protects you from negative energy.
 n - an amulet of resist slowing (around neck)
 o - an uncursed ring of teleport control
 s - an uncursed ring of magical power
Potions
 g - a potion of levitation
 l - a potion of slowing
Books
 j - a book of Hinderance
 k - a book of Wizardry


 You had 1 experience left.

   Skills:
 + Level 5 Fighting
 + Level 7 Maces & Flails
 + Level 1 Throwing
 + Level 2 Armour
 + Level 6 Dodging
 + Level 1 Stealth
 + Level 1 Unarmed Combat
 + Level 1 Invocations


You had 6 spell levels left.
You didn't know any spells.

Overview of the Dungeon

Branches:
Temple: D:5       

Shops:
D:6: (


                    Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You have a pair of horns on your head.
Your mind is acute (Int +1).


Message History

The orc warrior hits you with an orcish war axe!
The orc warrior misses you.
You hit the orc warrior.
You kick the orc warrior, but do no damage.
The orc warrior is severely wounded.
The orc warrior hits you with an orcish war axe.
The orc warrior hits you with an orcish war axe!

###.......#
..........#
..........###.
###............
# #..##.........
###..##.........
...............<
###).##..........
........@####.o#.
........%o.......
###..#......#..#.
.....#......#
####.#......#
..............
.....####......
....##   .....
....#    ....    .


You could see an orc warrior.

Vanquished Creatures
  The ghost of Pig Fucker the Covered, an average HuFi (D:4)
  2 ogres (D:5)
  A centaur (D:6)
  3 imps
  3 hounds
  An orc priest (D:6)
  2 giant iguanas
  A scorpion (D:5)
  Ijyb (D:2)
  2 jellies
  2 worms
  4 gnolls (D:5)
  4 snakes
  A killer bee zombie (D:6)
  15 goblins
  9 hobgoblins
  6 jackals (D:5)
  20 orcs
  2 quokkas
  13 giant bats
  3 giant cockroaches
  10 giant newts
  13 kobolds
  2 kobold zombies
  6 rats
  A snake zombie (D:5)
128 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A goblin (D:6)
  A rat (D:1)
2 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 130 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place   | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1     | Horse Fucker, the Minotaur Chaos Knight, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1     | Reached XP level 1. HP: 15/15 MP: 1/1
   443 | D:1     | Reached skill 4 in Fighting
   641 | D:1     | Acquired Makhleb's first power
   671 | D:1     | Reached XP level 2. HP: 21/24 MP: 1/1
  1149 | D:2     | Noticed Ijyb
  1163 | D:2     | Defeated Ijyb
  1163 | D:2     | Reached XP level 3. HP: 23/30 MP: 2/2
  1249 | D:2     | Gained mutation: Your mind is acute (Int +1).
  1860 | D:3     | Acquired Makhleb's second power
  1860 | D:3     | Reached XP level 4. HP: 33/38 MP: 2/2
  2923 | D:4     | Reached XP level 5. HP: 31/43 MP: 3/3
  2932 | D:4     | Defeated Pig Fucker's ghost
  2932 | D:4     | Reached XP level 6. HP: 17/49 MP: 4/4
  3215 | D:5     | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  3263 | D:5     | Reached skill 5 in Maces & Flails
  3471 | D:5     | Reached skill 6 in Maces & Flails
  3515 | D:5     | Acquired Makhleb's third power
  3515 | D:5     | Reached XP level 7. HP: 56/57 MP: 5/5
  3659 | D:5     | Reached skill 5 in Fighting
  3683 | D:5     | Reached skill 5 in Dodging
  4109 | D:5     | Reached skill 7 in Maces & Flails
  4368 | D:5     | Reached skill 1 in Unarmed Combat
  4374 | D:5     | Reached skill 1 in Throwing
  4866 | D:6     | Got a fine marble ring
  5109 | D:6     | Reached skill 1 in Stealth
  6010 | D:6     | Mangled by an orc warrior

[rattran]

I've only made it past level 5 as a Wanderer. Too many arbitrary deaths I think.

[Yegolev]

Some guy named Terrence killed me.

[rattran]

I die mostly to my own ghosts, and the stupid spawn, things like a 6-headed hydra on level 2 of the dungeon. Which it seems is intentional, though the reasoning behind it seems suspect.

And assassins are good, except at around level 10, stealth seems not to work anymore.