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Author Topic: The thread wherein Windows 7 is discussed...  (Read 111403 times)
JWIV
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2392


Reply #385 on: July 15, 2009, 09:38:12 AM

I've got a XP key, but I've had to build/rebuild/modify my computer using the key often enough that if I so much as sneeze at my computer, I have to go through a phone call with a person to reactivate. 

Sounds like an OEM key as they are very touchy to activate with hardware/os rebuilds.

 Shouldn't be an issue on an upgrade tho as it "converts" to a windows 7 key if you bought the retail upgrade. Bascially microsofts logs the xp key and i think will stop WGA activatations of that key again. I cannot see them blocking an OEM upgrade because its a whole level of support/media it dosen't need. If you have a WGA valid key it should work.

 The question is what the end key would be, and it would be really amazing if it came out as retail key. I'd say the new 7 key thrown out tho will be bound to your new hardware (the same as if you call about an XP oem activation) as a new OEM key.


Technet discussion on the same problem.

Yep.  The discount on OEM keys is nice nice, but after awhile it really gets tiresome.

NiX
Wiki Admin
Posts: 7770

Locomotive Pandamonium


Reply #386 on: July 15, 2009, 11:14:12 AM

Disabling the page file will not magically force the OS to use physical RAM instead.

Surely you phrased that incorrectly.

 swamp poop
Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 23657


Reply #387 on: July 15, 2009, 09:14:14 PM

Sounds like an OEM key as they are very touchy to activate with hardware/os rebuilds.

 Shouldn't be an issue on an upgrade tho as it "converts" to a windows 7 key if you bought the retail upgrade. Bascially microsofts logs the xp key and i think will stop WGA activatations of that key again. I cannot see them blocking an OEM upgrade because its a whole level of support/media it dosen't need. If you have a WGA valid key it should work.

 The question is what the end key would be, and it would be really amazing if it came out as retail key. I'd say the new 7 key thrown out tho will be bound to your new hardware (the same as if you call about an XP oem activation) as a new OEM key.


Technet discussion on the same problem.
Do not indent your paragraphs.
Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 23657


Reply #388 on: July 15, 2009, 09:45:06 PM

What is the risk, other than a random BSOD? If you're just playing Call of Duty, who cares? Sure, its not healthy to risk your machine faulting on a dime, but at the same time, if its a gaming rig, you probably don't want to have -too- valuable unreproduceable data/programs/config on it in any case.
It's complicated and I don't understand it fully myself so I'll just copy and paste something that will hopefully shed some light on this (not just linking cause of fucking popups):

Quote
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 03:32:47 GMT


diesel <diesel@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>I'm confused as to what the PF usage box and graph shows. The Microsoft docs
>say they show how the pagefile is being used. Well, I have 1gb RAM and with
>nothing really running the usage screen shows:
>
>PF Usage shows 192mb
>
>Physical Memory:
>Total 1048092
>Available 797952
>System Cache 131356
>
>There is plenty of physical memory available why is the Pagefile being used?
>
>Shouldn't "PF Usage" show 0mb until I run out of physical memory?
>
>Thanks.

There are two kinds of page file usage.

The first is actual usage, which means the actual movement of active
memory content from RAM to the page file so as to allow that RAM to be
used for other, currently more important, tasks. This is what the
utility that Gerry Cornell referred you to reports.

The second kind is, for want of a better term, "virtual" page file
usage. This is what Task Manager reports on the Performance tab. This
virtual usage of the page file includes not just the actual usage (if
any) but also the usage of the page file address space by Windows to
satisfy the unused portion of Memory Allocation Requests.

This is sometimes a bit difficult to grasp. What happens is that
application programs, device drivers, and Windows components typically
request memory allocations that are larger than what they actually
need under normal circumstances. There are sound reasons for doing
this, or so I am assured by experienced programmers. Windows must, by
definition, identify memory locations for all requested memory. So
what happens is that the Windows memory manager allocates addresses in
RAM only to those portions of these requests that are actually used.
The unused portions are allocated memory address space in the page
file. Note that this allocation of page file addresses does not
involve any actual disk activity - just entries in the memory mapping
tables maintained by the CPU.

And if it subsequently happens that a program needs to use a
previously unused portion of the memory it requested then the memory
manager will instantaneously remap that portion to available locations
in RAM.

Here are some current figures from my own computer:
- Actual page usage = 47 mb
- Current page file size = 160 mb
(these two values are from Bill James' utility)
- Page file usage = 333 mb
(from Task Manager)

Note that Task Manager is reporting a figure that exceeds the actual
current size of the page file. This is okay in Windows XP, so long as
the Task Manager value does not exceed the maximum size limit for the
page file because the page file could be increased in size should that
become necessary, again provided that there is enough free space on
the hard drive to do so.

Note also the difference between the Task Manager figure of 333 mb and
the Actual usage figure of 47 mb. That figure, 286 mb at the moment,
represents the sum total of the unused portions of the memory
allocation requests that have been issued by everything that is
currently active on my machine.

Hope this clarifies the situation.

Good luck


Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca
"The reason computer chips are so small is computers don't eat much."

When you turn off your page files you are messing with Windows ability to do this "virtual paging", even though it still tries to do it (this is why when you turn off all of your page files, Task Manager still reports a PF Usage > 0). If you have oodles and oodles of RAM and you aren't running that many apps, it's not a problem if they are grabbing more memory than they need and Windows has no pagefile to stuff those unused addresses into. If things are tighter, though, then you are actually inteferring with Windows' ability to optimize your RAM usage if you turn off paging as the "greedy" apps (apps that grab more memory than they actually use) may keep apps that really need the extra RAM from getting what they need.
Yegolev
Moderator
Posts: 24440

2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST


WWW
Reply #389 on: July 16, 2009, 06:56:01 AM

It is complicated and I am far more familiar with AIX vm than DOS, plus it's not something I deal with every day.  That is an interesting description and I wonder about "greedy" apps.  The fact that a programmer would take virtual memory mapping into account seems a tad unnecessary (or Old School), unless of course he did not trust the memory manager. Ohhhhh, I see.

If things are tighter, though, then you are actually interfering with Windows' ability to optimize your RAM usage if you turn off paging as the "greedy" apps (apps that grab more memory than they actually use) may keep apps that really need the extra RAM from getting what they need.

Well, that's the question, isn't it?  What happens when an app requests X bits from Windows while there is X-Y unallocated?  It would probably be a very bad idea to deallocate memory from a program even if it was not actually being used... and for that matter if an app requests 512MB and only really uses 256MB of it, I think under normal circumstances I would not care.  I don't have the source code so I can only accept that the app needs 512MB and get on with life.  I'd expect programmers lay claim to extra memory just to make sure they don't run out.  So once again I get back to thinking that I, as a end user, don't too much care where my bits come from except for performance reasons, and that's something the vmm would ideally take care of, so if I have enough virtual memory to run all of my apps+OS, I'm good.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Sky
Terracotta Army
Posts: 32117

I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.


Reply #390 on: July 16, 2009, 10:07:08 AM

Thinking about greedy programs grabbing RAM gave me a flashback to pre-OSX macs and the lack of memory management and manually assigned allocated RAM...   ACK! ACK! ACK!
Tebonas
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6365


Reply #391 on: July 16, 2009, 10:25:13 AM

Thanks for the Qemm flashback and the memory of those DOS days!  ACK!

"Now, lets see where I can move that driver..."
Sky
Terracotta Army
Posts: 32117

I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.


Reply #392 on: July 16, 2009, 12:19:11 PM

Der Helm
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4025


Reply #393 on: July 16, 2009, 12:43:59 PM

Thanks for the Qemm flashback and the memory of those DOS days!  ACK!

"Now, lets see where I can move that driver..."
Good  old times...

.
..
...i feel old...

"I've been done enough around here..."- Signe
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