Patch 3.08

[kildorn]

Sjofn and I totally duoed the phoenix boss in Zul :P

[K9]

I'm pretty sure we'll see a druid or a paladin solo Loatheb before too long. Although I doubt you could get through the eye-stalk tunnel solo.

[Signe]

I was finding this thread so helpful and then it went all supernatural on me!   

[Nonentity]

Signe! Don't go into the light! It has a parafluxer capacimeter pentamajigger keeping the Flux Portal™ stable!



I dunno. I haven't played around with the patch yet. The real test I suppose will be in Naxx on Saturday, if I don't go out of town.

[Nevermore]

Although I doubt you could get through the eye-stalk tunnel solo.

What sucks is if you get your eye-stalks and celery-stalks mixed up, you could end up with eyeballs in your tuna salad.

[Merusk]

Hey there's nothing stupid or boring about a fight that a tank and a healer can solo. Really!

Solo... together?

Yeah I thought about that after I posted it and said, "Meh."

That or they're having sex while killing him.. which, y'know, cool.

[Montague]

Arenas disabled until further notice. 90% of playerbase rejoices.

[Paelos]

Arenas disabled until further notice. 90% of playerbase rejoices.

I'll personally be happy if they never come back, and they take the shitty requirements off all the pvp gear.

[Nebu]

If pvp in WoW were naked, I'd still be playing this game.  Turning it into an arms race ruined it for me. 

[Soulflame]

What annoys me about arena are the balance passes for arena that impact PvE.

[Ingmar]

Druids can stealth through the eyestalk tunnel actually.

As for "soloing" Heigan with a tank and a healer, it won't work if your healer and tank can't cure disease (as we discovered on our very first try.)

[K9]

Mmh, the only healer who cannot cure diseases are druids. That said, feral druids in 25-man epics are hitting just shy of 48K HP fully raid buffed. When people are in T8-T9 gear the 50% health reduction will be pretty trivial. The 1K dps from the dot is easily healable, assuming you're doing this on normal.

For Loatheb I'd guess a restokin would probably be the optimal druid spec for soloing him, not sure though. You can make some pretty weird builds for soloing stuff.

[Zetor]

Arenas disabled until further notice. 90% of playerbase rejoices.

I'll personally be happy if they never come back, and they take the shitty requirements off all the pvp gear.

Ditto. I enjoy wow pvp [in moderation], but haven't arena'd since mid-season3.
Calling arena 'fair' and a 'show of skill' is laughable, and that has nothing to do with how out of whack damage/healing/class balance is atm (or how badly the ninja-patched "ghost rating" system was broken).

Either nuke all rating requirements like it was in season1-2 (though that makes it harder on players joining arena in later seasons as their blues will be up against tfull prev-season gear), or just make everyone wear a full set of current-season pvp gear (with a selection of weapons / trinkets / gems / enchants made at an arena battlemaster) as soon as they enter an arena/BG. That way the leet gladiators could have the feeling of achievement from "earning" their epeen symbols and flaunt them in IF or world pvp if they want without ruining pvp for the late-comers / casuals / not-uber-pvpers.


-- Z.

[Paelos]

They can't balance arena. To try to do so is simply hubris. When people don't start on the same footing the moment they step in the door, even if you don't factor in their gear, it's not a real competition. It would be like a football game where the teams had only certain types of plays that they could run. It would be horribly stupid and in many ways completely dominated by the teams with the better plays.

The refs could have little sessions to decide how to best change the acceptable plays so that things get slightly more even, but it's never going to be completely balanced until everyone has access to everything. The same is true in a class-based game.

[Montague]

They can't balance arena. To try to do so is simply hubris. When people don't start on the same footing the moment they step in the door, even if you don't factor in their gear, it's not a real competition. It would be like a football game where the teams had only certain types of plays that they could run. It would be horribly stupid and in many ways completely dominated by the teams with the better plays.

The refs could have little sessions to decide how to best change the acceptable plays so that things get slightly more even, but it's never going to be completely balanced until everyone has access to everything. The same is true in a class-based game.

You never miss a chance to rag on the Big 10, do ya? 

[Falwell]

3.0.8 has been nothing short of a train wreck.

It fixed some, but broke a lot more. Having to disable the entire arena system and wintergrasp for this length of time? I expect this shit from Funcom, but not here.

Couple this little fiasco with LK being kicked out the door WAY too early and putting advertising on their forums, it just all screams bad to me. Like suits getting in the way bad.

[Merusk]

But.. but.. but the Activision merger didn't change anything! Honest!   

[Signe]

It is all borken.   

[Trippy]

But.. but.. but the Activision merger didn't change anything! Honest!   

The CEO of Activision Blizzard may be from Activision (the COO is the former CEO of Vivendi Games) but Vivendi acquired Activision, not the other way around. I.e. Vivendi owns the majority stake in Activison Blizzard and you can bet they aren't letting Activision call the shots with regards to what happens in World of Warcraft.

[Vash]

On the topic of Loatheb, 2 german players duo'd 25 man Loatheb (prot warrior, holy paladin) well over a month ago, you can get through the eye stalk tunnel with an invis potion.

It took them a little over 3 hours and the warrior went through 3 shields I think. 

Vid of it here for those interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45G8AW875EM

While 3.0.8 did bork a lot of things, the lag has been so horrible on my server (especially in instances) for at least 2 weeks prior and still present after the patch that the game is basically unplayable.  Until they give my server's hamsters some steroids or hotfix those latency fixes they were planning to implement with the patch but didn't, what 3.0.8 does or doesn't do won't really matter to me or most of the people on my server. 

[Merusk]

But.. but.. but the Activision merger didn't change anything! Honest!   

The CEO of Activision Blizzard may be from Activision (the COO is the former CEO of Vivendi Games) but Vivendi acquired Activision, not the other way around. I.e. Vivendi owns the majority stake in Activison Blizzard and you can bet they aren't letting Activision call the shots with regards to what happens in World of Warcraft.

You just said the CEO isn't allowed to call the shots in the company he's managing.  That's even funnier than the hyperbole I was engaging in.

[Trippy]

But.. but.. but the Activision merger didn't change anything! Honest!   

The CEO of Activision Blizzard may be from Activision (the COO is the former CEO of Vivendi Games) but Vivendi acquired Activision, not the other way around. I.e. Vivendi owns the majority stake in Activison Blizzard and you can bet they aren't letting Activision call the shots with regards to what happens in World of Warcraft.

You just said the CEO isn't allowed to call the shots in the company he's managing.  That's even funnier than the hyperbole I was engaging in.

The CEO reports to the Board of Directors. Guess who controls the Board?

Edit: Board of Directors

[Ingmar]

Wintergrasp was already back on last night it seemed like.

[Paelos]

4 hour emergency maintenence today. LOLZ!

[Draegan]

I'm not sure if that's lol worthy really.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I'm not sure if that's lol worthy really.

To wow addicts it is, when you absolutely love or hate something you tend to blow everything out of proportion. The patch isn't even a week old and yes it broke stuff but wintergrasp is already back, arena's are getting fixed and bugs are getting patched quick. In the timespan it's been I have to say I don't think the sky is falling.

Also, why do people keep saying wotlk was rushed? it had a couple quest bugs and yes some zoines seem empty(like crystalsong) but it released with as much content as BC and anyone with a vague memory knows they are saving things for content patches on purpose just like in BC

[Venkman]

Someone changed something over there are WotLK would be shipping about now. There were things broken at launch and with BC too, but I don't remember entire systems and zones needing to be shut down for what-will-be-weeks just from a content patch.

This is the problem with profit vs quality. WoW is starting to plateau on new subs. Since Suits are measured by how well they're growing first, how well they're managing a distant second (if at all), they don't wait for the plateau nor the decline to insert themselves. So push-out-before-Christmas-or-else.

Having said that, maybe it was their projections for the plateau, or maybe it is the general global slowdown they wanted to stay ahead of as much as possible. But in either case, it was more people than just developers, who given the chance would always defer to "when it's done". They've had their four years of running the show, but I suspect those days are over.

Here comes the annual expansion and monetized website! 

[Ingmar]

Someone changed something over there are WotLK would be shipping about now. There were things broken at launch and with BC too, but I don't remember entire systems and zones needing to be shut down for what-will-be-weeks just from a content patch.

The problem with arena is in the ratings calculations and it will be fixed in off-hours maintenance (http://blue.mmo-champion.com/11/14578687862-arena-system-update.html). Wintergrasp is also open again already. What is going to be down for weeks?

[Paelos]

I'm not sure if that's lol worthy really.

I just found it funny that they had to do maintenance on their maintenance.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Wow has made so much money and even if they lose half their subs they will still be the most profitable mmo ever. I REALLY don't see them feeling in any kind of rush for anything.

[Falwell]

LK does not have as much content as BC. Raids being numero uno here.

What makes it even more pathetic, is that the one, the single major raid dungeon to ship in LK is a god damn remake. Most of the work was already done 3 years ago. Art, sound files, zone construction. All they had to do was rework the numbers in most cases. A few fights (4H in particular) DID require substantial redesign, but even those are few and far between.

KZ, Mag, Gruul's Lair, TK, SSC, Mt. H and 2 world bosses all shipped with BC.

Nax, Maly and Sarth. (oh and the wonderful trash mob turned boss in Archavon)

It's not even comparable.

Couple this with the fact that BC brought a LOT more change to the WoW world. It introduced the arena system, two new races along with their respective home cities and 1 - 20 zones, flying mounts, heroic dungeons, 10 / 25 man raids etc. etc.

Oh yes, there is a world of difference between the two expansions. Most of them not for the better.

Let me put it in a more direct light..

My guys have been raiding in WoW since the get go. We're not a poopsock brigade (3 nights a week, 50 percent minimum attendance) but we do get to see it all. Kil'jaeden, Illidan, Archi, T5, all clear. We never, ever came close to catching up to the content patches until the very end in SWP. They launched with more than enough content to keep us perfectly entertained while they added more and more to the top end.

Now, this same crew, with the same schedule, was content complete in about 6 weeks. This also coming over the holidays when our raid attendance plummets. Of those 6 weeks, I'd wager 2 of those were spent either in ten mans or as nights off due to the holidays.

Point being, Blizzard is relying much, MUCH more on their content patches to keep people entertained. We all know Big Blue's record on how fast their patches goes live.

Launching with a lack of raid content along with the initiative to make raiding more accessable by considerably lowering the difficulty factor and giving multiple classes the same raid buffs and benefits has only doubled the headaches. I have zero problems with making raiding more attractive to the Average Joe. It's something I've taken a lot of enjoyment from over the years and love seeing more people getting to share that. The flip side of the coin is that they should have been ready with more content at launch, and they were not.

Fuck this turned into a soapbox moment. I'll cut it off here.

[Paelos]

/rant on

Let me clue you in on something. If you SAW Kil'jaeden, you were in 10% of the population. Hell, probably a lot less, and I'm being generous.

Your crew is hardcore. Accept that fact, and accept that this game didn't completely meet your needs. I think you realize that's ok. The rest of the people are still working on things and don't care about the people at the top. I will grant you that the content is easier, but it needed to be. Blizzard is a company, and they realized they were creating content for a very small percentage of their cash cow playerbase. They didn't like that.

You know what I remember from BC? Group composition fights. Give me this guy, give me this class, give me this buff. If we don't have this class, we're fucked. If one person dies, we're boned.

That's not fun. That's not a game, it's a repetative kick in the balls. Fuck uber guilds, fuck SKILL in an MMO, and most importantly fuck ppl who think that this game has to be "hard" to be relevant. Hard means gear cockblocks. Hard means fights where the bosses pull mindnumbingly stupid "one person dies and you're fucked" abilities. This is not chess. This is a time>all game.

Oh and also, as of this date, only 25% of people have killed all the content in this particular expansion. That's according to Wowjutsu, which is probably flawed, but I would still believe those numbers as close. Is Blizzard comfortable that they are releasing things "too slow" when only 25% of the playerbase is done? On pure stats alone, I'd say no. I'd say it's a huge step in the right direction from when 5% could do things.

/rant off

[WindupAtheist]

What he said. If you beat Illidan and Kil'jaeden, you're part of what's probably more like a 5% minority and need to accept the fact that Blizzard doesn't care about you. That being said, the 25% that have cleared everything in WOTLK is only going to go so high. A lot of people (me, all my friends in-game right now) just Do Not Care.

[Koyasha]

Don't underestimate the significance of adding an entirely new class to the game.  In its entire going-on-ten-year history, EQ has only done so twice, and neither one of those launched anywhere near as smoothly as the Death Knight, regardless of how well integrated they may have become long after their launch.  Wrath definitely has less raid content than Burning Crusade launched with, by a huge margin.  It also has one less five-man dungeon, unless I'm mis-counting.  However, its heroics are easy enough to be accessible without months of gearing up (how soon after BC did you see serious pugging of heroics?  Not for a long while, on any server I played on), it has much more pvp content, and has managed to introduce a reasonably well-balanced outdoor pvp zone that is actually drawing the crowds and keeping them coming back.

I'd say development resources went into: Death Knights, PvP, dungeons, class balance, overhaul of the various systems they overhauled, and -lastly,- raids.

It's a much better situation, I think, than if they'd thrown out a load of raid content.  Sure, there's not enough raid content, and it's a little too easy for the better-coordinated and so on guilds....but it's not like those people are going to quit.  In exchange for some relatively minor dissatisfaction from a small percentage of the population (of those who have killed everything in Lich King, how many do you think are dissatisfied with how easy it was?), they've set up systems that seem more solid and well-thought out, and are therefore likely to be an excellent and much more stable base to build future content and balance off of.

[Venkman]

That's the problem with being on top. In the continual drive for profitabilty, you are always looking for things to cut and ways to extend the spread of resources. They decided getting more people to raid was more important than servicing those who already do. And in a competitive market, they'd have taken WUA's 5% loss of players to a different game.

Instead, they've got 5% unsatisfied players who are only sticking around because there really isn't anything else worth playing. And once you accept 5%, you start accepting 8%, 10%, 20%, until eventually your disasatisified playerbase becomes a potential market unto itself.

That's where EQ1 WoW is going.

Wow has made so much money and even if they lose half their subs they will still be the most profitable mmo ever. I REALLY don't see them feeling in any kind of rush for anything.

In public companies, you're not rewarded for how well you're doing, but how we'll you're growing/improving. The minute Pardo is in front of upper management saying that growth has slowed down, the vultures business 101ers start circling.

Also, remember that the profit they're making is of such an order that it's far more likely to be funding a hundred other pet projects that'll die than going back into WoW proper.