Patch 3.08

[Paelos]

I liked my DK initially.  It was pretty easy to faceroll in 5-mans to top dps (usually by a large margin) and in raids she's usually 2 or 3 behind our BM hunter.  But tbh I really wanted to tank and most guilds only want them as dps.  That and there's always way too many generic DPS lining up for a raid spot or group.

I have the problem now of too many people wanting to tank in the raid. It's quite amusing how much it's switched in one xpac.

[Ironwood]

I don't mind others wanting to tank, but honestly, as a prot tank, without lots of things hitting me I'm totally rage starved.  The rage mechanic makes doing anything other than tanking as prot quite a silly prospect.  I swear, I was wandering into acid pools and noxious clouds just to get it started.

[Hayduke]

Keep working on the tank gear. They're getting a boost in the patch as Blizz realized they need to be more like druids with the lack of a shield and the nerf to IBF.. which was a silly thing anyway. It's less of an 'oh shit' button and more of a "this is the only way I can live" button right now.

I didn't mean to say that I ran into a lot of people thinking DKs couldn't tank, only that most guilds don't need anymore tanks.

[Fordel]

It's fine to have a surplus, as long as they are DK's and Druids. Even in their tank specs, they can put out respectable DPS. The two Prot tanks, much less so.

[Ingmar]

It's fine to have a surplus, as long as they are DK's and Druids. Even in their tank specs, they can put out respectable DPS. The two Prot tanks, much less so.

Yeah the main thing is they need to understand that when there's a glut on a given night they're the ones who need to dps a given fight. The priority list for who switches first is along the lines of:

druid > DK > warrior > pally

Pretty much if you have a protection paladin in your raid, and you do a boss fight that requires only one tank period, you have the prot pally do it because he's the most useless if not tanking. Until dual specs, anyway.

[Azaroth]

Oops. Wrong thread.

[Signe]

So this patch is today, right?  Right?  Hey!  Answer me, you!

[Reg]

I'm downloading it right now.

[Signe]

Oh good and it's about time.  I hate Blizzard.  They're a bunch of bums.

[Nonentity]

Darn, now I have to login today.

[Nevermore]

How convenient, since I just restarted on a TBC 10 day trial after almost four years.  It's like a whole new game!

What makes this especially amusing to me is when I quit all that time ago, I vowed I would never sub again until Blizzard got off their asses and made Entangling Roots work indoors and tie feral damage to actual equipped weapon DPS.  Well, I've been able to use Roots indoors and in this patch the notes say they're finally linking weapon DPS to feral form damage.  Ha!  I OUTLASTED YOU, BLIZZARD! 

[Azaroth]

Inc: Lolret.

[Merusk]

Crap, so are we taking bets on how long the patcher will take today?

I knew I should have told our raid leader scheduling a 25-man run tonight was a mistake.

[Rasix]

Took me like 10 minutes total before work.  It's like a 54MB.

[Jayce]

Somebody spoiler-tag the final patch notes.

[bhodi]

[Morfiend]

Inc: Lolret.

Why do you say that?

Constantly OOM after the patch?

[Azaroth]

Well, two things.

PvE: Several classes are getting PvE DPS buffs, leaving Ret as one of the last place classes, all things even. This is covered up by our rotation including two AOEs, and two additional spells available to us in Naxx (plus the glyph of undead). Problems with Ret DPS will truly begin to show themselves in Ulduar.

But mainly:

PvP (arena especially): -50% output of DPS from inside a bubble.

This is hard, but easy to explain at the same time.

To try quickly..

A paladin's bubble is his CC. Basically, we don't HAVE CC in PvP. So we have the anti-CC.

We also don't have a gap closer like other effective melee (ignore Enh shaman, they're fucked). See charge, intercept, sprint, shadowstep, etc. To melee you must be in melee range. Hand of Freedom helps, but you get smacked the entire time you move at run speed toward your target - and it's on a long cooldown, leaving you totally tooled after you've used it already or it's been dispelled.. How many ways does a mage have to slow/freeze you? More than one on a 30 second cooldown? Well, then you're in big trouble.

Your bubble allows you to break all CC and run to your target. If he has distance and runs the other way, you've got a problem potentially - but it's there, and it's your anti-CC and your bread and butter in an arena situation because of the combination of the facts that you're melee/have no gap closers/are very kiteable when HoF is down/etc.

Replacing your mace with a wet noodle eliminates all possibility of bursting a player down in PvP, so there is now no reason to use your bubble as anti-CC and a gap closer, because you're not going to do anything effective to the target when the gap IS closed. If you're facing a team with a healer, since you have no MS either and already have trouble with that, you're toast. You are turned into the worst damage-dealing class the game has ever seen once inside that bubble (really, is any DPS class capable of only 50% of another class?), so trying to kill someone is silly - most especially if there's a healer around.

People argue that you can just heal while inside a bubble. These people are what I like to call "dead wrong".

Holy Light is 29% base mana. Paladins ain't sportin' much +int. How many heals do you think you have in you before you're OOM and totally useless, autoattacking away?

Those who believe healing inside a bubble is a viable tactic are fools (it's the ONLY thing you can do inside a bubble now, but that doesn't make it viable).

This is especially a problem in 2v2, when your shield now becomes a "kill my partner now while I attempt to heal him and go OOM" button, leaving you useless when you come out of your bubble.. and your partner probably dead, because you can only heal him for so long while he's focus fired.

Considering you're not going to be sitting at 100% mana halfway into a fight when this happens, you might get two heals off no him before you're smashing Divine Plea (if it's up) and watching him die while you wait for your big bad 1250 mana over 6 seconds. If it's not, or if you're quite low and that 1250 will only barely leave you with enough to heal after 6 + 2.5 = 8.5 seconds (heals are effective while your target is dead, I hear), you're back to running over and smacking someone with a wet noodle if you're not inclined to stand around doing nothing.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Ret paladins could in duels or pvp kill me(shadow priest) in approximately 5 seconds and that's being generous. They needed a nerf.  I'm all for some classes being better than others in single combat via rock paper scissors but ret was ridiculous.

[Nevermore]

    * Players may now create death knights on any realm once they reach level 55.

Not quite yet, as it turns out.

[Sjofn]

I made one on a server I don't have a 55 on JUST TODAY.

[Merusk]

You got lucky then.  There's even a note on the login screen that you can't yet with a forum thread (but the link doesn't work actively and you can't C&P.. there's one thing blizz fails on constantly.)

[Nevermore]

I made one on a server I don't have a 55 on JUST TODAY.

Hax! 

[Morfiend]

I made one on a server I don't have a 55 on JUST TODAY.

Yeah, anyone could make DKs, wether they had a 55 or not. Now this is on the forums.

It was anticipated that with the release of the current patch, 3.0.8, players would be able to create a new death knight on any realm within their region. Unfortunately, due to unforeseen circumstances, we are not able to make this available as of yet. We do anticipate making this available in the near future and will do our best to keep everyone informed of when this becomes available.

Please keep in mind that when implemented restrictions will still apply to new, non-transfer realms such that death knights cannot be created on those realms until you level a character to level 55 on that realm or until transfer restrictions are removed.

[Fordel]

You are turned into the worst damage-dealing class the game has ever seen once inside that bubble (really, is any DPS class capable of only 50% of another class?), so trying to kill someone is silly - most especially if there's a healer around.

You've described every ranged DPS class/spec that isn't a Arcane Mage in regards to pvp. 

[Arinon]

The fact that any class could go completely immune and retain the ability to heal and move was one of the first indications way back at release that WoW had put PvP on the back burner.

Every patch I keep looking for the note that it's been gutted.  This isn't that note.

[Paelos]

The first time I remember seeing a pally go immune and then keep running around healing, I literally said, "That's horseshit!"

So, I agree with you, it's a completely bizarre mechanic that should be replaced with something else. Bubbles are fine while moving, but being able to cast and be completely immune is clownshoes.

[Azaroth]

The fact that any class could go completely immune and retain the ability to heal and move was one of the first indications way back at release that WoW had put PvP on the back burner.

Every patch I keep looking for the note that it's been gutted.  This isn't that note.

I think Blizzard has a design spot open just for you.

[Ingmar]

And yet somehow paladin healers don't dominate PVP.

[Montague]

The first time I remember seeing a pally go immune and then keep running around healing, I literally said, "That's horseshit!"

So, I agree with you, it's a completely bizarre mechanic that should be replaced with something else. Bubbles are fine while moving, but being able to cast and be completely immune is clownshoes.

It's not paladin healing in the bubble that has the PVP'ers bitching. It's getting burst down in <10 seconds from a well geared Ret while immune. Holy Paladins absolutely need that bubble to compete in PVP.

[Chimpy]

Wintergrasp crashing the World Server when it finishes got me my Higher Learning achievement tonight, ty buggy fixes!

[Fordel]

Yes, everyone is trying to scamper away from Northrend currently for the safety of IronForge.

[K9]

The fact that any class could go completely immune and retain the ability to heal and move was one of the first indications way back at release that WoW had put PvP on the back burner.

Every patch I keep looking for the note that it's been gutted.  This isn't that note.

The first time I remember seeing a pally go immune and then keep running around healing, I literally said, "That's horseshit!"

So, I agree with you, it's a completely bizarre mechanic that should be replaced with something else. Bubbles are fine while moving, but being able to cast and be completely immune is clownshoes.

Y'all need to learn about Mass Dispel.

[Arinon]

It's not paladin healing in the bubble that has the PVP'ers bitching. It's getting burst down in <10 seconds from a well geared Ret while immune. Holy Paladins absolutely need that bubble to compete in PVP.

Exactly.  If that wasn't around to begin with all of Holy PvP healing wouldn't revolve around it and they would have been given other, less offensively versatile skills to make up for it (one would hope).  Now they feel they need to start making special adjustments to it to keep it in line.  See Ice Block for how to do immunities. It's still super annoying or effective I guess depending on what side of the fence you're on, but its ancillary uses are more easily managed.

Mass Dispel is still a 1.5 second, ground targeted effect that is only on a single class no?  Honest question as aside from PvE DKing I'm months out of date.  Very spotty counter at best.

[Paelos]

Wintergrasp crashing the World Server when it finishes got me my Higher Learning achievement tonight, ty buggy fixes!

It's awful, I couldn't make it out of Dalaran hardly. Also, for some reason I was getting some serious fps problems in one of the instances after a while, which I could only chalk up to them getting choked with ppl to get out of the raining lagfire.

This is one of the worst patches in a while, which is even worse considering they delayed it for a long long time.