Advice on a new rig

[apocrypha]

I bow to your superior knowledge of system building, I just copy'n'pasted mine 

[Strazos]

Sir, you are a Wizard of system building.

And yes, I love me some rebates. 

One question: that's not the mobo that has been having energy saving problems, has it?

Ok lies, 2 questions: Case suggestion?

EDIT: Also, would there be a huge advantage, given my stated intent of use for the system, to try to scrounge up extra money for a Quad-core setup?

[Jimbo]

XFX is great on their warranty, plus some graphic cards come with game bundles, and I'm liking my Windows Vista x64 Home so far too, my recent build is a little more pricey though:

1   Microsoft Office Home and Student 2007 Licensed for 3 PCs - Retail
Item #: N82E16832116135
$79.95

2   XFX GX260NADDU GeForce GTX 260 896MB 448-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
Item #: N82E16814150310
30 Day Return Policy
$599.98
($299.99 ea)

 2   ESET NOD32 Antivirus Home Edition V3.0 - OEM
Item #: N82E16832114005
Software Return Policy
$59.98
($29.99 ea)

2   XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 120mm Rifle CPU Cooler - Retail
Item #: N82E16835233003
Standard Return Policy
$73.98
($36.99 ea)

2    ASUS 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model DRW-2014L1T - Retail
Item #: N82E16827135156
30 Day Return Policy
$71.98
($35.99 ea)

2    Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8400 - Retail
Item #: N82E16819115037
Processors (CPUs) Return Policy
$329.98
($164.99 ea)

2   Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit for System Builders - OEM
Item #: N82E16832116488
Software Return Policy
$199.98
($99.99 ea)

2   ASUS Xonar DX 7.1 Channels PCI Express Interface Sound Card - Retail
Item #: N82E16829132006
Standard Return Policy
$179.98
($89.99 ea)

2   Antec Twelve Hundred Black Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Retail
Item #: N82E16811129043
Standard Return Policy
$359.98
($179.99 ea)

2    ABIT IX38 Quad GT LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Item #: N82E16813127033
Limited Non-Refundable 30-Day Return Policy
$439.98
($219.99 ea)

2    CORSAIR XMS2 DHX 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X4096-6400C4DHX - Retail
Item #: N82E16820145194
Memory (Modules, USB) Return Policy
$218.00
($109.00 ea)

2   PC Power & Cooling S75QB 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI NVIDIA SLI Certified (Dual 8800 GTX and below) CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Retail
Item #: N82E16817703009
Standard Return Policy
$299.98
($149.99 ea)

1   Western Digital Raptor WD1500ADFD 150GB 10000 RPM SATA 1.5Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Item #: N82E16822136012
30 Day Return Policy
$169.99

Total:   $3083.74 for 2!
   Would have had to add another $169.99 if I didn’t reuse my current hard drives.  Prices should be lower now, since this was bought in pieces over 1 & ½ years.  I love it, and so does my son, we both get classes that require a lot of research and typing, so 2 computers was easier to plan on than sharing 1.  Over kill, but worth it!

[Trippy]

Sir, you are a Wizard of system building.

And yes, I love me some rebates. 

One question: that's not the mobo that has been having energy saving problems, has it?

Dunno.

Ok lies, 2 questions: Case suggestion?

EDIT: Also, would there be a huge advantage, given my stated intent of use for the system, to try to scrounge up extra money for a Quad-core setup?

I prefer Antec but their cases are pricer than most.

For gaming right now a faster clock speed dual core is still better than a slower clocked quad for the vast majority of games. In the future that won't be the case but nobody knows at what point in the future it'll switch over. If you look at the gaming benchmarks in the Tech Report link on the previous page you can see a glimpse into the future. If you look at the HL2:EP2 benchmarks you can see the typical situation today -- faster dual cores beat the slower quad cores. However if you look at the UT3 and the HL:particle demo benchmarks you can see that the slower quads beat the faster duals.

If you are willing to go through the hassle of upgrading your CPU sometime in the future my advice is just to stick with a dual core within your budget right now and then upgrade to a quad core later.

If you aren't and you plan on keeping this machine around for 5 or 6 years like your current on then yes you might want to consider getting a quad core like the Q9550 ($275) if you are willing to spend the extra money.

[rattran]

Antec cases are quite nice, though some have some minor niggling issues (Some 900s have noisy fans, airflow on the p180 is weak with the front of the case closed) Zalman and LianLi look nice, and Coolermaster are good at cooling, though tend to be noisy and pricey. 

I usually find cases to be something people like to pick out for themselves. If they have no preference, I built them a Coolermaster Elite 330 (or the new/better 335) Toolless, small, decent, cheap (around 40usd at Fry's). No front esata or 1394, but 2 spaced usb, and headset/mic. Plenty of room for working, and the usual topmount psu, which means minimal cabling. I use one for my torrent/irc box currently.

[SnakeCharmer]

I've got the Antec 900, and so far like it.  A bit louder than I'd like, and the fans don't have filters in front of them so they end up sucking in alot of dust.  It's a freakin' heavy ass case, too.  Not a big fan of the blue LEDs, but I live with them.  If there were filters in place, it would probably help tremendously with the noise level of the fans.

I'm currently using a Q6600 that's overclocked to 3.2Ghz, and has been for six months or more.  Since switching to a Zalmann fan, my temps have lowered to the high 20C's at idle,, and high 40C's/low 50C's under Prime95 load (ambient temp is 72F).  I've been tempted to yank it out and put in fast dual core, but decided to just keep what I've got and OC it.  I might fiddle with it and see if I can get 3.4 at acceptable temps.  Anyway.  I'd say get a quad core, and overclock it. 

[Strazos]

So what's the current hierarchy of nVidia cards? They have the 9800 GTX+ nonsense, but also 200 series? Which ranks higher, or are certain 9000 series cards better than certain 200 series?

[rattran]

So what's the current hierarchy of nVidia cards? They have the 9800 GTX+ nonsense, but also 200 series? Which ranks higher, or are certain 9000 series cards better than certain 200 series?

Nvidia is all over the place with nomenclature. The number at the front has little to do with the generation, they keep renaming shit to higher numbers. The 8800gt is the 9800gtx is the gtx250. Best bet, give a budget, and people can tell you the best card for that buck. At least until the first week of April when the ATI refresh (and possibly Nvidia refresh) hits.

[Trippy]

The 9800 GTX+ is not a 8800 GT -- it's a faster version of a 9800 GTX which is a faster version of the 8800 GTS which is a faster version of the 8800 GT. The GTS 250 (not "GTX 250") is, however, a rebranded 9800 GTX+. The GTS 240 is a rebranded 9800 GTX.

You need to go to a GTX 260 (or 280) if you want something better than the single-GPU 8xxx/9xxx series cards.

[Hindenburg]

Gotta buy a new rig from the contents of this list. What I need: gpu = vga, cpu, ram = mem, motherboard = mb, and, should the energy requirements be elevated, psu = fonte. Money: 400.

Currently completely out of the loop, I'm thinking of:
MEM DDR2 2048MB 800MHZ KINGSTON                                |      23.00 x2
CPU AMD AM2 ATHL64X2 7750+ 2.7 2MB BOX                       |      85.00
VGA PCI EXP. 512 ATI SAPPHIRE HD3870 GDDR4 2DV+T         |     129.00

and at a complete loss for the motherboard.
Everything can be changed, only real requirement is 4 gigs of cheap ram. Don't have any prejudice against ATI, and usually go for amd because, hey, cheaper.
Help. Please.

[rattran]

The 9800 GTX+ is not a 8800 GT -- it's a faster version of a 9800 GTX which is a faster version of the 8800 GTS which is a faster version of the 8800 GT. The GTS 250 (not "GTX 250") is, however, a rebranded 9800 GTX+. The GTS 240 is a rebranded 9800 GTX.

You need to go to a GTX 260 (or 280) if you want something better than the single-GPU 8xxx/9xxx series cards.

My point was that it's the same basic chip (G92) despite generational number changes. And the GT(x)S250 was a typo. Nvidia's numbers no longer indicate generation.

And yes, the GTX 260 280 285 295 (and rumored 275 next week) are all latest gen chip.

[Sky]

I like nvidia's upper end products, but holy shit I wish they'd get their nomenclature in fucking order. It's been stuptarded for several generations and I think right now is the worst its been outside of the MX fiasco.

[Miguel]

I like nvidia's upper end products, but holy shit I wish they'd get their nomenclature in fucking order. It's been stuptarded for several generations and I think right now is the worst its been outside of the MX fiasco.

Seconded.  Their die nomenclature is even worse:  the show lower performance with increasing numbers (e.g. G92 > G96 > G98), and they constantly reuse the same die name across multiple generations of chip (e.g. G92), with wildly different marketing names.

I think ATI does this much better, but even that can be a real mess.

What's considered the best bang for the buck in the Core 2 Duo series?  Is it still the E7000 series Wolfdale processors?

[Trippy]

My point was that it's the same basic chip (G92) despite generational number changes. And the GT(x)S250 was a typo. Nvidia's numbers no longer indicate generation.

And yes, the GTX 260 280 285 295 (and rumored 275 next week) are all latest gen chip.

Numbers haven't consistently represented generation since before the GeForce 4 MX which was a rebadged GeForce 2.

Edit: consistently

[Sky]

A rebadged shitty geforce 2. A friend had a GF4MX in an identical rig to mine otherwise (I built it, he 'upgraded' the gpu), my rig had a GF2 ultra with a 256bit pipeline. It smoked his card, I felt bad for the kid, because he wanted to show off his new card and ended up feeling like shit.

[Trippy]

Gotta buy a new rig from the contents of this list. What I need: gpu = vga, cpu, ram = mem, motherboard = mb, and, should the energy requirements be elevated, psu = fonte. Money: 400.

Currently completely out of the loop, I'm thinking of:
MEM DDR2 2048MB 800MHZ KINGSTON                                |      23.00 x2
CPU AMD AM2 ATHL64X2 7750+ 2.7 2MB BOX                       |      85.00
VGA PCI EXP. 512 ATI SAPPHIRE HD3870 GDDR4 2DV+T         |     129.00

and at a complete loss for the motherboard.
Everything can be changed, only real requirement is 4 gigs of cheap ram. Don't have any prejudice against ATI, and usually go for amd because, hey, cheaper.
Help. Please.

Not sure what the (B) represents but you want one of these MBs

Code:

      0436 | MB AMD64 SAM2 ASUS M2N-MX SE PLUS S/V/R SATA             |      71.00
     04361 | MB AMD64 SAM2 ASUS M2N-MX SE PLUS S/V/R SATA (B)         |      71.00

If you prefer NVIDIA you can get this instead (comparable in performance to your 3870):

Code:

     19666 | VGA PCI EXP. 512 XFX GF9600GT 650M YHL3 2DVI+TV          |     120.00

[Hindenburg]

(B) means refurbished. Many thanks.
Grabbed the xfx 9600gt, looked at the 650usd computer in the previous page, and switched the cpu to an intel e5300, was planning on going with a xfx 9300 motherboard.
Factoring that m2n mx's price, though, could go back to AMD and use the remaining cash to get a 9800 gt (171) or gtx (193). Should I go with Intel or just grab AMD and the better video card?

[Trippy]

(B) means refurbished. Many thanks.
Grabbed the xfx 9600gt, looked at the 650usd computer in the previous page, and switched the cpu to an intel e5300, was planning on going with a xfx 9300 motherboard.
Factoring that m2n mx's price, though, could go back to AMD and use the remaining cash to get a 9800 gt (171) or gtx (193). Should I go with Intel or just grab AMD and the better video card?

If you like to run a very high resolutions (>= 1600 x 1200) I'd go with the setup with the better video card. Otherwise it's sort of a toss up. The late gen low end processors rarely get reviewed but if I had to guess I would say the E5300 is slightly faster than the 7750 despite the slightly slower clock speed.

If you wanted the Intel you could go with, say, the INTEL DG31PR board and still get a faster video card.

[Hindenburg]

[Trippy]

Gah! Don't give Signe any ideas!

[Miguel]

What's considered the best bang for the buck in the Core 2 Duo series?  Is it still the E7000 series Wolfdale processors?

Actually let me ask a follow up question.  Besides the CPU, I am looking for a mobo to go with the above CPU.  I need:

1) 6 or more SATA ports
2) DDR2
3) Onboard DVI output
4) At least 2 PCI slots

This is for a server-like setup:  a remote machine that does mostly transcoding and recording.

I found three boards that meet these criterion:

Intel BOXDG43NB LGA 775 Intel G43 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Intel BOXDP43TF LGA 775 Intel P43 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Intel BOXDP35DPM LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

Keep in mind this will be running Gentoo, so I don't care about gaming performace (or even having a display connected other than for setup).

Anything else I am missing?

[Trippy]

Keep in mind this will be running Gentoo, so I don't care about gaming performace (or even having a display connected other than for setup).

Anything else I am missing?

Why do you need DVI output then?

[Miguel]

Why do you need DVI output then?

I only have a single display, and it only has a digital DVI input.  It would only be for checking BIOS settings, etc.  Most of the time it would not be plugged in.

[Trippy]

Is this for both video and music or just music?

[Miguel]

Is this for both video and music or just music?

I would say 95% video transcoding (MPEG2 to XVID) for my MythTV setup.  5% music (going from PCM to MP3).

I guess with Gentoo being SMP aware, I might be one of the few who might benefit from moving to Core 2 Quad over Core 2 Duo.  However the price/performance may not line up.

[Trippy]

Yes having the 2 extra cores will help with Xvid encoding, I would definitely recommend considering that if you have a lot of video to reencode. With 2 cores and sufficient CPU power you can encode Xvid at faster than "real time" (i.e. > 30fps) depending on the settings so if you only have, say, 4 hours of MPEG-2 video a day to reencode, you wouldn't need a quad core if this box was dedicated to DVR stuff. If you had, say, 8 hours+ of video a day you might want to consider it.

My 1.83 GHz Core Duo (not Core 2 Duo) can do about 23fps sustained reencoding 720p video down to 880 x 496 Xvid using "high quality" settings (vhq=2:bvhq=1:chroma_opt:quant_type=mpeg). If you aren't working with HD video it'll be quite a bit faster.

For a motherboard, something with the G43 chipset would be good.

[Strazos]

I heard some people here having problems with installing XP while 4gb are in the system. Is that a known issue, or an isolated thing? Do i just need to install XP with 2gb in, and add the other stick after the install?

[Strazos]

Also, not to double-post, but, I revised my build list. The price has ballooned somewhat (for futureproofing!), so I'll just buy the parts over the next few weeks. Plus, I'd rather just start with W7, if I can wait that long before putting this thing together. Anyway, anyone see any glaring errors?

    
Also, if I decide to put this together early, will I be able to reuse my current XP discs?

ASUS P5QL PRO LGA 775 Intel P43 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail - $86.99
XFX GX260NADFF GeForce GTX 260 Core 216 896MB 448-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail - $199.99
CORSAIR XMS2 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X4096-8500C7 - Retail - $50.99
LITE-ON 22X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black E-IDE/ATAPI Model iHAP222-06 - OEM - $22.99
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 Yorkfield 2.83GHz LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80569Q9550 - Retail - $274.99
Western Digital Caviar GP WD7500AACS 750GB 5400 to 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM - $59.99
SeaSonic SS-500ET 500W ATX12V V2.2 / EPS12V V2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - OEM - $65.99

Subtotal:     $761.93

I still haven't settled on a case. 

Think I wanted to get the Antec 300 . I see that the PSU mounts at the bottom of the case, so with the PSU I have selected, can anyone foresee any problems?

[Hoax]

Everyone loves that ASUS set (P5Q's) but I have that exact board and have had two major issues in under a year.  I had a outright failure that forced an RMA (still not sure what happened, apparently something shorted) and recently I accidently put it into sleep (fuck you vista) and it wouldn't come out, BIOS corruption of some sort fucking bullshit, had to clear CMOS.  I'm not 100% that another component isn't causing me these issues but so far multiple sources keep pointing me at the mobo so for now I'm blaming it.

I had originally considered going with MSI but there was just so much more positive feedback about the ASUS line.

Your system is prettym uch the same as mine, except I went wit the Q6600 and I didn't go Seasonic with the psu even though I wanted to.  I have to warn you though, I feel like the issues I've had are power supply related and while I trust Seasonic above all other psu brands make sure you've got the necessarry juice on the 12v rail.  Which is a fucking annoying thing to figure out.  I hate psu documentation so much.

Antec is good but I would argue its not quite worth the money.  None of the expensive cases really are.

[Trippy]

Think I wanted to get the Antec 300 . I see that the PSU mounts at the bottom of the case, so with the PSU I have selected, can anyone foresee any problems?

Case is shorter than the 180s so it shouldn't be an issue.

[Engels]

Not real crazy about the 300 cuz it has no front fans, but if  you live in an air-conditioned dwelling, its probably not a big deal as long as temps don't go over 75 or so.

[Salamok]

I'm still very pleased with my COOLER MASTER Sileo 500 it was affordable, isn't too large and seems to be well made.

[Strazos]

Think I wanted to get the Antec 300 . I see that the PSU mounts at the bottom of the case, so with the PSU I have selected, can anyone foresee any problems?

Case is shorter than the 180s so it shouldn't be an issue.

Don't foresee any problems getting the cables up to the CPU socket, or trying to get around the video card?

Not real crazy about the 300 cuz it has no front fans, but if  you live in an air-conditioned dwelling, its probably not a big deal as long as temps don't go over 75 or so.

I'm buying a few extra  Scythe DFS123812-1000 120mm Case Fan - Retail to mount in the available areas

[Trippy]

Think I wanted to get the Antec 300 . I see that the PSU mounts at the bottom of the case, so with the PSU I have selected, can anyone foresee any problems?

Case is shorter than the 180s so it shouldn't be an issue.

Don't foresee any problems getting the cables up to the CPU socket, or trying to get around the video card?

Normally you snake the MB power connector under the motherboard. That case is ~3 inches shorter than the P180s so the power connector cable should be long enough but if you are worried you are going to have to Google on it.

[Strazos]

Was looking over the major stuff I changed in my build:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150329
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115041

Currently set up with this for a PSU:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151069

I'm worried that I am not going to have enough amperage on my 12v's because I saw nVidia saying for the 260 that you need 36A on the 12v rail. Is this correct, or should I just say fuck it and step up to something like this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151027