Anyone thought about going back to DAOC?

[Bismallah]

I don't know if any of you played it back in it's peak but I seriously debated re-up'ng my sub to play the Classic servers. I know, I swore up and down when I quit DAOC that I was going to burn the discs to never play again and dance on it's grave when it closed for good. Somehow after playing WAR I just kept looking back over at the shelf and the DAOC boxes and thinking "man... they did do things at least a little better with DAOC". That and I am pretty bored with WoW (or just don't have folks to play with) So, just curious if anyone was thinking of re-sub'ng or trying out DAOC?

Despite the fact that DAOC has a measly 30-50k subs (guess-timation), they have been increasing and this past weekend showed the highest pop in awhile. They had over 1200 on one of the clusters (Devon) and over 700 on the classic cluster (3 servers). I am thinking about going back to the classic because I dont have to deal with any ToA "i win" shit...

Anyone else thinking the same as me? I am half hoping if at least some folks go back they will release Origins. That or the crack I smoked over the weekend was really good shit and I am daydreaming about the good stuff from DAOC completely forgetting the bad.

[Nebu]

1) Wait for origins. 

2) Make sure you have 8 dedicated people to go back to DAoC with.  Without a full group, the game just isn't as fun as most remember it to be.  Even with a dedicated group, the fun will last a month or two tops.

[HaemishM]

I thought about it. But even with the /level and a free level every week, the thought of solo-grinding up another toon to be competitive in RVR just hurts my soul.

[eldaec]

Without a full group, the game just isn't as fun as most remember it to be.  Even with a dedicated group, the fun will last a month or two tops.

This, really. tbh, I'd never go back because it won't be as much fun as it was at the time.

Much as people sniff at the EQ2/CoH generation of MMOGs and everything since - they really are more playable now than daoc was in 2001.

If origins was basically, here you go, level 50 & decent gear - go at it, no master/champion/artefact bullshit (and if I could avoid GOA), I'd resub to take a look, but that won't happen.

[ghost]

You know, I'm not too much of a graphics guy generally.  I decided to give EQ2 a try, however, because I was bored and found that it just was too ancient looking.  I think I would have the same issued with DAOC.  It is tough to go back to lower quality graphics, even for good games.

[Fordel]

Last time I tried playing DaoC, it felt like I was ice skating. WoW has just spoiled me in terms of UI and Control responsiveness.


The game just felt OLD, not in the good nostalgic way either. Which isn't really surprising, since the game IS freaking old.

[Lantyssa]

You know, I'm not too much of a graphics guy generally.  I decided to give EQ2 a try, however, because I was bored and found that it just was too ancient looking.  I think I would have the same issued with DAOC.  It is tough to go back to lower quality graphics, even for good games.

Did you use the alternate models?  I know not everyone likes them, but I felt the same with the originals.

[ghost]

You know, I'm not too much of a graphics guy generally.  I decided to give EQ2 a try, however, because I was bored and found that it just was too ancient looking.  I think I would have the same issued with DAOC.  It is tough to go back to lower quality graphics, even for good games.

Did you use the alternate models?  I know not everyone likes them, but I felt the same with the originals.

Nah.  I don't really feel like doing another number-key-to-use-a-skill game.  That is part of it too, all these MMOs are built on basically the same mechanics of gameplay, so it all feels like WOW now. 

Working on Bioshock (which is really phenomenal), Mass Effect and Fallout3 at the moment.

[Nebu]

Last time I tried playing DaoC, it felt like I was ice skating. WoW has just spoiled me in terms of UI and Control responsiveness.


The game just felt OLD, not in the good nostalgic way either. Which isn't really surprising, since the game IS freaking old.

Have you played WAR?  At release, WAR felt worse (i.e. less responsive) than DAoC.  I hope to god that at least some of the skating feel in WAR has been addressed this many months later.

[Fordel]

Last time I tried playing DaoC, it felt like I was ice skating. WoW has just spoiled me in terms of UI and Control responsiveness.


The game just felt OLD, not in the good nostalgic way either. Which isn't really surprising, since the game IS freaking old.

Have you played WAR?  At release, WAR felt worse (i.e. less responsive) than DAoC.  I hope to god that at least some of the skating feel in WAR has been addressed this many months later.

Nope, never picked up WAR. Largely in part because of the reports I was reading that said just as much as above.

[Bismallah]

WAR felt very slow and unresponsive compared to nearly every MMO I have played to date. Even in beta it was a hard sell for me to pick it up at release.

If I did go back to DAOC it would be on the classic servers (which are coincidentally all lumped together under one cluster). They have two other clusters that seem to get to around 1200/750 respectively at peak. I guess that's about the same as one of the active servers now on WAR so it's dreadfully low.

However, for DAOC to "work" you only really needed about 150-200 on each side which they seem to have on the massive amounts of servers clustered together into those three.

<shrug> I think I am mostly just bored.

[apocrypha]

I have a couple of friends who I introduced to DaoC many years ago, who despite having left the game not long after I did (after ToA) still go on about it as the best MMO ever and nothing since compares to it. They went back briefly when the Classic servers launched and convinced me to try it again with them (mostly to shut them up tbh).

It was a mistake. It sucked. It felt like the game was persistently punishing me for playing. Grindy, horrible graphics and gameplay not good enough to enable me to ignore the visual eye-stabbing and awful mechanics, particularly regarding pvp. Hours trying to get a group. HOURS. Then steamrollered in 2 minutes by an uber roaming gank group then back to the fucking portal keep to wait around for hours again when the group fell apart.

Go back DaoC now? I'd rather hammer rusty nails into my penis.

[Redgiant]

Honestly, if Mythic took the game basics from DAoC at release + SI, and applied those mechanics to a new engine like LotR or EQ2 uses, you could truly have something again that satisfies all the old-guard who want real RvR as well as the eye-candy crowd who refuse to play an old-looking game.

A lot of people thought WAR would be what I just said. But if you were in Beta you knew it wasn't even close; it was more WoW than DAoC; and even the DAoC-lite elements of keeps and open-field RvR that WAR did manage to limp into release were added fairly late due to all those DAoC fans screaming that "just scenarios" sucked. And they do.

[Nebu]

Feeling a little nostalgic this morning and began to think about what made DAoC fun for so many years.  Answer: the people. 

I remember being at work anxious to get home and play.  Not because the mechanics were great.  Not because the graphics were outstanding.  Because I was going to be with a group of friends looking for groups to fight filled with other players we knew.  8v8 was like playing an intramural sport.  You logged on and roamed around looking for the notable groups to see who earned bragging rights for the evening.  When the classic servers opened, some of the best groups from the past assembled and DAoC became an All-Star game of sorts.  Every night you had to bring your "A game" in order to compete.  For the first year there were always 3-4 groups that were dominant and the play of these groups shaped how others played.  If a group was successful with one group build, you'd soon see everyone playing that build. 

I logged on daily to chat with old gaming friends (some from the UO days) and fight the best.  Some nights we lost a lot more than we won, but the challenge made it fun.  Having the ability to pan back and recognize a group from their colors, build, realm, and tabbard made each encounter exciting.  When players showed respect and courtesy toward fair fights, it almost gave me faith in humanity.

[ghost]

Feeling a little nostalgic this morning and began to think about what made DAoC fun for so many years.  Answer: the people. 

I remember being at work anxious to get home and play.  Not because the mechanics were great.  Not because the graphics were outstanding.  Because I was going to be with a group of friends looking for groups to fight filled with other players we knew.  8v8 was like playing an intramural sport.  You logged on and roamed around looking for the notable groups to see who earned bragging rights for the evening.  When the classic servers opened, some of the best groups from the past assembled and DAoC became an All-Star game of sorts.  Every night you had to bring your "A game" in order to compete.  For the first year there were always 3-4 groups that were dominant and the play of these groups shaped how others played.  If a group was successful with one group build, you'd soon see everyone playing that build. 

I logged on daily to chat with old gaming friends (some from the UO days) and fight the best.  Some nights we lost a lot more than we won, but the challenge made it fun.  Having the ability to pan back and recognize a group from their colors, build, realm, and tabbard made each encounter exciting.  When players showed respect and courtesy toward fair fights, it almost gave me faith in humanity.

Perfect storm maybe? 

To read your second paragraph it really sounds a lot like arena without the douchebags and walls. 

[Nebu]

To read your second paragraph it really sounds a lot like arena without the douchebags and walls. 

That was a part of it.  DAoC had a nice sandbox feel to it as well.  You could 8v8, help the zerg with a relic capture, take a keep, or just log on a stealther and solo.  The game allowed players to create gameplay options for themselves.  I miss that. 

[ghost]

To read your second paragraph it really sounds a lot like arena without the douchebags and walls. 

That was a part of it.  DAoC had a nice sandbox feel to it as well.  You could 8v8, help the zerg with a relic capture, take a keep, or just log on a stealther and solo.  The game allowed players to create gameplay options for themselves.  I miss that. 

If Mythic did a 6v6 zone strictly for this purpose I think they could retain a lot of folks. 

[Ingmar]

Perfect storm maybe? 

To read your second paragraph it really sounds a lot like arena without the douchebags and walls. 

Don't buy it. DAOC was 99% douchebags, just like any other MMO. It was just that the douchebags had to make a vague effort to be nice to each other 'for the realm'.

[FatuousTwat]

Perfect storm maybe? 

To read your second paragraph it really sounds a lot like arena without the douchebags and walls. 

Don't buy it. DAOC was 99% douchebags, just like any other MMO. It was just that the douchebags had to make a vague effort to be nice to each other 'for the realm'.

Did you play? Because I had the most fun in DAOC for the same reason. My guild there was awesome, the best I have ever been in, and it was actually FUN to talk to the other realms most of the time because they aren't all fucking douchebags.

It seems like MMOs (and I guess any community in general) self regulate. If you are and asshole, you are ostracized, until the community gets to a certain size, and it becomes impossible to keep those people out.

[Nebu]

Did you play?

I'm guessing he played on Mordred.  Even the folks on Andred were more engaging than anyone I've encountered on a WoW pvp server.   

[HaemishM]

If you are and asshole, you are ostracized

Or you are a guild leader. 

And yes, I was a guild leader in DAoC for a time.

[Ingmar]

Perfect storm maybe? 

To read your second paragraph it really sounds a lot like arena without the douchebags and walls. 

Don't buy it. DAOC was 99% douchebags, just like any other MMO. It was just that the douchebags had to make a vague effort to be nice to each other 'for the realm'.

Did you play? Because I had the most fun in DAOC for the same reason. My guild there was awesome, the best I have ever been in, and it was actually FUN to talk to the other realms most of the time because they aren't all fucking douchebags.

It seems like MMOs (and I guess any community in general) self regulate. If you are and asshole, you are ostracized, until the community gets to a certain size, and it becomes impossible to keep those people out.

I played it for years, and no, not on a 'dred. Sure, my 99% number was hyperbole, but I guarantee you the exact same ratio of assholes:cool people existed in DAOC that exists in any game. I met plenty of cool people in DAOC; I still play with a lot of them, my group in WoW is made up almost entirely of people from my DAOC server. But I've met plenty of cool people in every MMO I've played, in about the same numbers. I am 100% serious when I say that any perception that people were nicer or more cooperative in general in DAOC was simply because they had incentive to be. On most servers this began to become clear when TOA released and suddenly PVE competition was injected into the world of RVR cooperation. Spawn stealing, etc., all the scourges of those "other games", showed up en masse.

Nostalgia is a powerful effect.

EDIT: Thinking about it a little more, I bet the lack of zone chat channels in DAOC did as much to foster this illusion as anything else.

[ghost]

I have certainly played games with less douchebags-  LOTRO, for example.  But your point about nostalgia is very correct.

[FatuousTwat]

Shrug, could be. It could also be that by the time I got to WoW, I wasn't really interested in talking with the people who are generally talking in chat.

[Fordel]

Lack of General in DaoC was a huge factor in the appearance of less douche bags.

The only general most folks had was their alliance chat, which could be as awful or strict as you wanted most of the time (in terms of who you shared it with). It was self filtering. For years on my server, Hibernia had 2 major alliances. One was the fairly strict about alliance chat, only using it for RvR or Organization. The other was the progenitor of Barrens Chat probably.

The Two alliances worked wonderfully together, because of this self filtering. People who would probably drive each other insane were filtered away from each other, but could still organize together on a macro level when needed and ignore each other on a micro level if wanted.


Shove these two groups together into a /1 General chat, and the douchebaggery would show amazingly quick. It often did show up in Emain/RvR chat if it wasn't tightly controlled and kept on focus.

[Bismallah]

I still have sceenshots of kids screaming their faces off at me because I "stole their RPs" while out RvRng. That was towards the end of my tenure of about 5 years on that game. I played an SB and would constantly jump on the healers in the back of fights. Sometimes they were 8v8 so of course I got berated for a good 5-10 minutes about stealing RPs and jumping in on fair fights. I was like, wtf is this shit? Red = dead, period.

Anyhow, I reupped a couple accounts to check out Classic. I have my own PL team (50 Summoning SM and 50 Aug/Mend Shaman) so I can level whatever I want. I will probably cancel at the end of the month though it is still kinda boring. Having the ability to level any character I want and make about 2-3 plat a day is a good incentive to just tinker around for a little bit.

[FatuousTwat]

Lack of General in DaoC was a huge factor in the appearance of less douche bags.

The only general most folks had was their alliance chat, which could be as awful or strict as you wanted most of the time (in terms of who you shared it with). It was self filtering. For years on my server, Hibernia had 2 major alliances. One was the fairly strict about alliance chat, only using it for RvR or Organization. The other was the progenitor of Barrens Chat probably.

The Two alliances worked wonderfully together, because of this self filtering. People who would probably drive each other insane were filtered away from each other, but could still organize together on a macro level when needed and ignore each other on a micro level if wanted.


Shove these two groups together into a /1 General chat, and the douchebaggery would show amazingly quick. It often did show up in Emain/RvR chat if it wasn't tightly controlled and kept on focus.

Did you play on Tristan?

[Bismallah]

I played on Tristan for about 5 years.

[Soulflame]

I was pretty excited about Origins when they first announced it, but as Mythic expanded on what their plans were, I lost a lot of my enthusiasm.  Then Origins got quietly dropped, and so far as I know, it's a taboo subject on forums where Mythic reads.

I'm not entirely sure I'd re-up to check out DAoC, unless my WoW guild imploded, and I decided I utterly hated WoW suddenly.  Neither of which is likely to occur.  Add to that my conviction that DAoC RvR being fun for the players was accidental, mostly due to their utter screwups in WAR, and I'm not entirely certain Mythic deserves another red cent of my money.

[Nebu]

There are days where I miss playing DAoC.  I had three accounts at one time and could run a duo in all three realms on Gareth when it got clustered. There was something soothing about mindlessly grinding in poc after work late in the evenings playing my vamp, my valk + shaman or BD + shaman, or playing a reaver + friar.  Even getting runover by the occasional full group didn't bother me much.

I'm glad I deleted most of my toons when I cancelled.  It was the only way to keep from going back.  I learned this from my EQ I addiction.  When I quit, I give away all my stuff and delete.  It makes it easier to stay away.

[Threash]

There are days where I miss playing DAoC.  I had three accounts at one time and could run a duo in all three realms on Gareth when it got clustered. There was something soothing about mindlessly grinding in poc after work late in the evenings playing my vamp, my valk + shaman or BD + shaman, or playing a reaver + friar.  Even getting runover by the occasional full group didn't bother me much.

I'm glad I deleted most of my toons when I cancelled.  It was the only way to keep from going back.  I learned this from my EQ I addiction.  When I quit, I give away all my stuff and delete.  It makes it easier to stay away.

That seems like such a waste, i sell my stuff :P Edit: usually to buy upgrades to play the next game :P

[Fordel]

Lack of General in DaoC was a huge factor in the appearance of less douche bags.

The only general most folks had was their alliance chat, which could be as awful or strict as you wanted most of the time (in terms of who you shared it with). It was self filtering. For years on my server, Hibernia had 2 major alliances. One was the fairly strict about alliance chat, only using it for RvR or Organization. The other was the progenitor of Barrens Chat probably.

The Two alliances worked wonderfully together, because of this self filtering. People who would probably drive each other insane were filtered away from each other, but could still organize together on a macro level when needed and ignore each other on a micro level if wanted.


Shove these two groups together into a /1 General chat, and the douchebaggery would show amazingly quick. It often did show up in Emain/RvR chat if it wasn't tightly controlled and kept on focus.

Did you play on Tristan?

No, Igraine for my DaoC stay. (Dropped out little after ToA/Before WoW, like everyone else)

[FatuousTwat]

Crazy, we had almost the exact same thing going on Tristan. 1 big alliance for most of the time I played that towards the end turned into 2. Most fun I've had in PVE was our alliances weekly Dragon raids.

[Fordel]

I don't know the exact history of the Dual Alliances, but they existed pretty much as long as I played in one form or another. Sometimes one of them would 'reform' over some random drama with one or more guilds in the alliance, but it was merely a cosmetic change. The Same people and players were in the same alliance almost the entire time. It kept the entire realm remarkably civilized for the most part.

There was a third, 'lesser' alliance in the realm too, mostly made up of people who took the game less seriously then the big two. I don't actually know what their dynamic was like, but they showed up for relic defense when it counted.


Our Situation was not mirrored in the other two realms though.

The Albs had MANY smaller alliances, all orbiting one massive mega alliance, built up of nothing but hundred-plus player guilds. As far as I could tell, it was a ineffective cluster fuck 90% of the time, and a unstoppable Juggernaut the other 10%. If the Mega alliance could actually get all the little ones to follow it, they were simply unstoppable. Just sheer weight of numbers. Luckily for us, this rarely happened.

The Mids had two or three equally sized alliances, but unlike in Hibernia, the alliances weren't split across chat styles and temperament, but rather equally split mixes of both types of player. No one Midgard actually liked anyone else in Midgard it seemed. Which was made worse for the fact there were all of 5 people in Midgard on Igraine. Mid was also full of tiny gank guild only alliances, which prided themselves on doing as much as they could with as little 'outside' help as possible. Which made Mid even less friendly then it already was.




The other realms lacked infrastructure, clearly. 

[Bismallah]

Mids ftw! I didn't get on last nite, been busy, but I am trying to take over my old guild on Lamorak with my alts. Since I run those instance dungeons solo I am earning mad cash and a lot of it is being donated to a dead guild. We'll see if the support email goes through and hopefully tinker around for a bit more.

I still havent gone back out into RvR though. I have a 44 Dark SM for that BG but I heard that Molvik is much more happening.