teh headshot

[Kenrick]

Those crazy Scots and their assassination recreation video games are at it again!

Shooting the image of Kennedy in the right spots in the right sequence adds to the score, while "errors" like shooting first lady Jacqueline Kennedy lead to deductions.

Bugger.

[geldonyetich]

If this wasn't the same guys that made State Of Emergency, I might actually believe their claims that the idea here is to use technology to refute conspiracy theorists.

Not that it proves much of anything.  The idea is that a lone gunman would have been able to assassinate Kennedy.   It can't simulate what the lone gunman's motives were.  

It'd make for a better argument that Lee Harvey Oswald acted on his own if they simulated active psychotic hallucinations during the entire episode.    Now there's a game that might be worth playing - get inside a psycho's head.   Oh right, early Ultima Online already did that.    Maybe they can just gear it like GTA and have you visit Richard Nixon first to get the job?

Bleh, this is far too political for gaming discussion.  Me no rikey political BS.

[Big Gulp]

It'd make for a better argument that Lee Harvey Oswald acted on his own if they simulated active psychotic hallucinations during the entire episode.    Now there's a game that might be worth playing - get inside a psycho's head.

I doubt very much that Oswald was psychotic.  Maybe sociopathic, but I doubt that too.  I think he was just a garden variety narcissist/egomaniac who figured killing a prominent figure would assure him a place in history.  He was right.

To back this up it's pretty clear that he wasn't picky about his target.  Like a week before the Kennedy assassination he'd tried to kill an anti-communist ex-general.

[schild]

I'm trying to get a media copy of JFKReloaded. I find it disturbingly fascinating.

[Ironwood]

Back and to the Left.

[HaemishM]

There was a second spitter! ROGER MCDOWELL!!!!

This was getting press on Good Morning America today. Yay, media, way to get played into marketing this ass game for them.

Sure, it's only a $9.99 download, but I mean how much game is there? Only one target, no running from police, no bunny-hopping sniper madness. They'd have done better to hook up with the History Channel and provide the graphics for a documentary on the subject instead of selling this shell of a game. Then, in true History Channel fashion, the assassination could have been linked to Nazis.

[MrHat]

There was a second spitter! ROGER MCDOWELL!!!!

This was getting press on Good Morning America today. Yay, media, way to get played into marketing this ass game for them.

Sure, it's only a $9.99 download, but I mean how much game is there? Only one target, no running from police, no bunny-hopping sniper madness. They'd have done better to hook up with the History Channel and provide the graphics for a documentary on the subject instead of selling this shell of a game. Then, in true History Channel fashion, the assassination could have been linked to Nazis.

Fucking Nazi's.

I think it would have made a fantastic demo level for a new hitman.  But maybe they don't call it assassinating JFK.  Maybe it's just a nameless hit, but the situation is exactly the same.

Maybe the entire next hitman should be a game of assassinations similar to real assassinations that have taken place.

[Kenrick]

Bleh, this is far too political for gaming discussion.  Me no rikey political BS.

Yeah, I debated putting it in another forum... But in the end, this is meant to be a discussion about the game.  Because that's what it is... I think...

[SirBruce]

I'm annoyed that there's no ability to do shootings from other places; 2nd shooters, grassy gnoll, overpass, etc.

Also, it seems to be that reproducing Oswald's shots are next to impossible (and completely impossible if you believe the stretcher bullet was indeed the bullet in question), so I'm afraid the game must use some very loose physics to decide your bullet's trajectory is "close enough" to the real one to make the circuituous ricochet path it took from Kennedy to Connely.

Bruce

[Merusk]

Also, it seems to be that reproducing Oswald's shots are next to impossible (and completely impossible if you believe the stretcher bullet was indeed the bullet in question), so I'm afraid the game must use some very loose physics to decide your bullet's trajectory is "close enough" to the real one to make the circuituous ricochet path it took from Kennedy to Connely.

I saw a special a few weeks back about the magic bullet.  They replicated both Kennedy and Connely using some manequins built in Australia that almost exactly simulate human beings.  The company builds them for similar crime scenet and CSI reinactments and includes skeletal structures as well as organs and skin.

Some of the stuff they accounted for that I hadden't seen prior to this was that Connely was on a lower seat than standard, NOT sitting level with Kennedy.  Also, he was turning slightly at the supposed moment of impact.  Taking those into acount, they proved, at least to me,  that one bullet COULD have pathed through Connely & Kennedy.

Their replication, however, didn't produce the same pristine bullet because they hit a rib in "Kennedy", which deformed it more, and took out enough energy that it didn't enter "Connely's" thigh. It didn't shatter or fragment, though, and a bullet fired from the exact same lot & batch as Oswalds from a rifle of the same year and make went about 24" into a piece of piece of pine without deforming significantly.  So I'd almost believe the 'magic' bullet was the actual bullet of assasination, now.

However, I still don't buy that Oswald was alone. Too many shots too fast.

[SirBruce]

Some of the stuff they accounted for that I hadden't seen prior to this was that Connely was on a lower seat than standard, NOT sitting level with Kennedy.  Also, he was turning slightly at the supposed moment of impact.  Taking those into acount, they proved, at least to me,  that one bullet COULD have pathed through Connely & Kennedy.

No one doubts one bullet could have taken the path -- that was proven years ago.  But given that it's 1 possible path out of millions, it's going to be a pretty impossible shot to replicate in the game unless the game's fidelity is sufficiently low and fuzzy.

Their replication, however, didn't produce the same pristine bullet because they hit a rib in "Kennedy", which deformed it more, and took out enough energy that it didn't enter "Connely's" thigh. It didn't shatter or fragment, though, and a bullet fired from the exact same lot & batch as Oswalds from a rifle of the same year and make went about 24" into a piece of piece of pine without deforming significantly.  So I'd almost believe the 'magic' bullet was the actual bullet of assasination, now.

I don't really understand your logic here, though.  By your own admission, they couldn't reproduce the pristine bullet in the exact test -- but they were able to come up with a fairly pristine bullet by shooting into a piece of pine, so now you believe the magic bullet??  What's the point of trying to reproduce the true conditions if you're going to discount their results anyway?

However, I still don't buy that Oswald was alone. Too many shots too fast.

You can get 3 shots off that fast, but there's very little chance you'd hit the President twice in neck/head.

Bruce

[Dren]

It was the smoking man from the sewers.  Everyone knows that!

[bhodikhan]

Yea. Put Michael Moore in the drivers seat and now we're talking about a best-seller!

Better yet they should add the "Teddy Kennedy Driving School Adventure" to the offer.

[Nazrat]

Yea. Put Michael Moore in the drivers seat and now we're talking about a best-seller!

Better yet they should add the "Teddy Kennedy Driving School Adventure" to the offer.

You stole that from Limbaugh.

[Krakrok]

The History Channel special, two nights ago had some 80 year old man make 3 shots with the same rifle in 7.2 seconds.

I'm disappointed that they didn't include a "Forge the Autopsy" game.

[Righ]

Download it, run it in demo, pay to unlock

[Merusk]

No one doubts one bullet could have taken the path -- that was proven years ago.  But given that it's 1 possible path out of millions, it's going to be a pretty impossible shot to replicate in the game unless the game's fidelity is sufficiently low and fuzzy.

See, I didn't know that had been proven years ago.  Everything I've seen and continue to see usually mentions something about "The bullet has to pause 1.5 second IN THE AIR (emphasis theirs) and then make a right, then a left turn!"  Just knowing the path was possible was interesting to someone like me who only has a passing interest in the topic.

I don't really understand your logic here, though.  By your own admission, they couldn't reproduce the pristine bullet in the exact test -- but they were able to come up with a fairly pristine bullet by shooting into a piece of pine, so now you believe the magic bullet??  What's the point of trying to reproduce the true conditions if you're going to discount their results anyway?

No, read it again.  They couldn't reproduce it because they hit a rib.  They were off the mark by about 1.5" on JFK's entry wound, which is why they nicked the rib and deformed the bullet.  Had it been entirely soft tissue without the sudden decrease in speed, the bullet wouldn't have deformed any more, at least as I understand it.  The pine test was just an indication of how durable the bullets are, provided they get a consistent density to travel through.

You can get 3 shots off that fast, but there's very little chance you'd hit the President twice in neck/head.

Yeah, which was what I meant to say.  Yes, it can be done, it's not likely to be done with any accuracy. The only folks to replacate it have been expert marksmen with lots of practice time which Oswald, by all accounts, wasn't and didn't have.

[SirBruce]

See, I didn't know that had been proven years ago.  Everything I've seen and continue to see usually mentions something about "The bullet has to pause 1.5 second IN THE AIR (emphasis theirs) and then make a right, then a left turn!"  Just knowing the path was possible was interesting to someone like me who only has a passing interest in the topic.

Well, I'm sure there are still some old documents or crazy conspiracy theorists who aren't up on the latest explanation for everything, so I've no doubt you've seen it.  It was a common criticism of the magic bullet theory before accurate 3D computer modeling showed such a shot was theoretically possible.

No, read it again.  They couldn't reproduce it because they hit a rib.  They were off the mark by about 1.5" on JFK's entry wound, which is why they nicked the rib and deformed the bullet.  Had it been entirely soft tissue without the sudden decrease in speed, the bullet wouldn't have deformed any more, at least as I understand it.  The pine test was just an indication of how durable the bullets are, provided they get a consistent density to travel through.

Yes, well... why didn't they just reproduce it again by hitting the correct mark?  Kinda defeats the whole purpose of the test to say, "Oh, this didn't work, but if we had done it right, it would have exactly reproduced the result in question, trust us!"  Sorry but if we were just going to use pine trees as conclusive we wouldn't need to be doing the other tests in the first place. :)

Yeah, which was what I meant to say.  Yes, it can be done, it's not likely to be done with any accuracy. The only folks to replacate it have been expert marksmen with lots of practice time which Oswald, by all accounts, wasn't and didn't have.

He was an "ok" Marine shooter at best and he certainly didn't have practice shooting at such a distance at a moving target.  I can accept that maybe he could have gotten extremely lucky with both shots, but there's no way that stretcher bullet was legit.

Bruce

[Krakrok]

The only folks to replacate it have been expert marksmen with lots of practice time which Oswald, by all accounts, wasn't and didn't have.

The said History channel program showed his Marine marksman target records and he stuck 4 out of 4 in the target at 200 years. It was only 60 yards to JFK.

[Big Gulp]

The said History channel program showed his Marine marksman target records and he stuck 4 out of 4 in the target at 200 years. It was only 60 yards to JFK.

200 yards with iron sights isn't such a big deal.  Those also aren't moving targets and not under such tight time constraints.  Recharging the weapon after every shot (which is what the old man in that documentary did) isn't what takes time, it's getting a decent sight picture again (which takes longer with a scope than with plain old iron sights.  It's more accurate, but more time consuming) and firing reliably that takes the time.

Also, I don't know how many times I have to quash the "He was a marine sharpshooter!" bullshit.  Sharpshooter doesn't mean dick in the military.  It's simply the middle rank for marksmanship (marksman, sharpshooter, expert).  Oswald was most definitely not some uber-rifleman.

Not to say that I go in for the conspiracy theory, I tend to think Oswald did it, and he acted alone.

[Merusk]

Yes, well... why didn't they just reproduce it again by hitting the correct mark?  Kinda defeats the whole purpose of the test to say, "Oh, this didn't work, but if we had done it right, it would have exactly reproduced the result in question, trust us!"  Sorry but if we were just going to use pine trees as conclusive we wouldn't need to be doing the other tests in the first place. :)

Cost and the dummies are only good for one shot.  I missed the part where they explained how expensive the dummies were, but they could only afford the 2 toros "Kennedy" and "Connely" On top of that they only had like 15 mins from 'exposure' of the fake skin before it went wonky and was useless. Just made me wonder why they don't use something NOT synthetic as skin, like fetal pig skin or something similar.

    I'm not saying it was the be-all end-all documentary here, just an interesting one I watched because it was on.

[Shannow]

damn wallhacking awp whores thats what!

[Ironwood]

 

Also, I don't know how many times I have to quash the "He was a marine sharpshooter!" bullshit.  Sharpshooter doesn't mean dick in the military.  It's simply the middle rank for marksmanship (marksman, sharpshooter, expert).  Oswald was most definitely not some uber-rifleman.

Not to say that I go in for the conspiracy theory, I tend to think Oswald did it, and he acted alone.

I saw the same documentaries as others in this thread and it's pretty much been concluded that Oliver Stone is the worst kind of Liar in the history of the world.  :D

Recreating the path of the shots and all that jazz has been done.  Also, proving that the shots could have been got off in the time has also been done.
Further, despite claims that Oswald couldn't shoot for shit, his marine records, as well as some old 'target shooting' records show that this is well within the realms of possibility.  Gulp will know more than me about actual shooting of course, but if it really comes down to the 'super secret government/communist/mafia/cuban/alien conspiracy and the fact that one guy with rifle practice got lucky and fast, then I'll choose the latter.

With all due respect to those who lost a fine president, of course.

(Covering for the Scots here.  Kinda bewildered about all of this.)

[HaemishM]

 

Also, I don't know how many times I have to quash the "He was a marine sharpshooter!" bullshit.  Sharpshooter doesn't mean dick in the military.  It's simply the middle rank for marksmanship (marksman, sharpshooter, expert).  Oswald was most definitely not some uber-rifleman.

Not to say that I go in for the conspiracy theory, I tend to think Oswald did it, and he acted alone.

I saw the same documentaries as others in this thread and it's pretty much been concluded that Oliver Stone is the worst kind of Liar in the history of the world.  :D

If you saw "The Doors" and know anything about Jim Morrison, you already knew that.

[WayAbvPar]

As Denis Leary put it-

I'm drunk, I'm no one
I'm drunk, I'm famous
I'm drunk, I'm fucking dead

End of story

[schild]

Abandonware!

Let's bring it back! High Score Contest! Prize? Uhh. Anyway, Free!

[stray]

I'm not fascinated with the subject matter per se.....Basically because I think it all falls on Oswald. Gunman-wise and plot-wise. Case closed.

And that's boring. You have to be interested in the conspiracies to actually be fascinated by the JFK assasination.

Still though, I'd like to see just how hard it'd be do it.

So I'll take a shot (or 3) at it.

Wocka Wocka Wocka

[stray]

Uh...

This is crazy-eerie-sick.

The presentation is too much.

[edit] Best I can do so far (not sure if I want to continue) is kill JFK with a headshot and injure the Governor in the chest. Still only get 400 points.

Details aside, it's still basically the same job done ( :-().

JFK RELOADED
============
FORENSIC ANALYSIS
=================

Date:               19 October, 2006
Time:               1:41AM

Full results of your practice run:


SUMMARY OF CASUALITIES
======================

JFK:                DEAD
This was correct
Score:              200 points out of a possible 200

The First Lady:     Uninjured
This was correct
Score:              50 points out of a possible 50

The Governor:       Injured
This was correct
Score:              100 points out of a possible 100

The Governor's wife: Uninjured
This was correct
Score:              50 points out of a possible 50

CASUALTY SCORE SUMMARY
======================
SCORE:              400 POINTS OUT OF A POSSIBLE 400



SHOT #1
=======

TIMING ANALYSIS
===============
Time:               9.439 seconds after sequence start
Your shot timing was well before or after that required
Time bonus:         0 out of a possible 25

TRAJECTORY ANALYSIS, SHOT #1, BULLET PATH #1
============================================
Shot The Governor's Stetson away
This part of the bullet's path failed to hit the correct person/object
Score:              0 points out of a possible 25

TRAJECTORY ANALYSIS, SHOT #1, BULLET PATH #2
============================================
Hit The Governor in the chest
This part of the bullet's path failed to hit the correct person/object
Score:              0 points out of a possible 0

TRAJECTORY ANALYSIS, SHOT #1, BULLET PATH #3
============================================
Exited The Governor's upper back
This part of the bullet's path failed to hit the correct person/object
Score:              0 points out of a possible 0

TRAJECTORY ANALYSIS, SHOT #1, BULLET PATH #4
============================================
Hit JFK in the right knee
This part of the bullet's path failed to hit the correct person/object
Score:              0 points out of a possible 0

TRAJECTORY ANALYSIS, SHOT #1, BULLET PATH #5
============================================
Hit JFK in the stomach
This part of the bullet's path failed to hit the correct person/object
Score:              0 points out of a possible 0

SCORE SUMMARY FOR SHOT #1
=========================
SCORE:              0 POINTS OUT OF A POSSIBLE 50


SHOT #2
=======

TIMING ANALYSIS
===============
Time:               11.747 seconds after sequence start
Your shot timing was well before or after that required
Time bonus:         0 out of a possible 50

TRAJECTORY ANALYSIS, SHOT #2, BULLET PATH #1
============================================
Hit JFK in the forehead and killed him!
This part of the bullet's path failed to hit the correct person/object
Score:              0 points out of a possible 25

TRAJECTORY ANALYSIS, SHOT #2, BULLET PATH #2
============================================
Exited JFK's head
This part of the bullet's path failed to hit the correct person/object
Score:              0 points out of a possible 25

TRAJECTORY ANALYSIS, SHOT #2, BULLET PATH #3
============================================
Hit a vehicle
This part of the bullet's path failed to hit the correct person/object
Score:              0 points out of a possible 25

SCORE SUMMARY FOR SHOT #2
=========================
SCORE:              0 POINTS OUT OF A POSSIBLE 350


SHOT #3
=======

TIMING ANALYSIS
===============
Time:               15.007 seconds after sequence start
Your shot timing was well before or after that required
Time bonus:         0 out of a possible 50

TRAJECTORY ANALYSIS, SHOT #3, BULLET PATH #1
============================================
Hit JFK in the head
This part of the bullet's path failed to hit the correct person/object
Score:              0 points out of a possible 25

TRAJECTORY ANALYSIS, SHOT #3, BULLET PATH #2
============================================
Exited JFK's lower back
This part of the bullet's path failed to hit the correct person/object
Score:              0 points out of a possible 25

TRAJECTORY ANALYSIS, SHOT #3, BULLET PATH #3
============================================
Hit the Presidential Limo and became lodged
This part of the bullet's path failed to hit the correct person/object
Score:              0 points out of a possible 25

SCORE SUMMARY FOR SHOT #3
=========================
SCORE:              0 POINTS OUT OF A POSSIBLE 200


FINAL RATING
============
SCORE:              400 POINTS OUT OF A POSSIBLE 1000

[stray]

[EDIT]

It's almost impossible to get Oswald's third shot off (the final headshot from the behind, once the motorcade was speeding away, if I recall). It's much easier to get it off from the front, as the motorcade is approaching the book depository building.

I think Lee Harvey Oswald surprised himself with that last shot (though, if you recall, it was the one shot where he hesitated and really took his time).

Generally speaking though, it's quite easy to take out the target(s) with 3 shots in that amount of time.

Now....Someone else post before I start feeling bad about myself. Don't leave me hanging.

[Yegolev]

Uh... HEY-O!

This game sounds boring, really.  This is coming from a professional ice miner in EVE Online.  Sounds like it's a good simulation, but I'm just not a simulation guy unless it's something like Forza, not Flight Simulator.  I just don't see the depth.  It also sounds difficult and frustrating.  Just my thoughts.

[stray]

It's not even a game really. More of a "challenge" -- Much like those silly flash games people link to all over the place.

[Yegolev]

Like Space Invaders, only with two aliens and three bullets?

[stray]

Two aliens, three bullets, 4 friendly targets, all constantly moving.

You can only kill one alien -- who happens to be right behind the path of the other one.