Don't talk to cops (IANALBIPOOTI)

[Hindenburg]

Ever had a run in with police in Spain or Italy? They're fuckers and there's no two ways about it. (Okay, so I don't know about Italy but Spain and France I can tell you about.)

There are quite a few things that raise red flags for cops. Foreigners are one of them. Male foreigners, another.
Male foreigners in groups... well... 

Was that the case?

[DraconianOne]

There are quite a few things that raise red flags for cops. Foreigners are one of them. Male foreigners, another.
Male foreigners in groups... well... 

Was that the case?

Because that would make their attitude and treatment of us alright?

[Hindenburg]

Us?

In that case, yes. It would.

[DraconianOne]

Us?

In that case, yes. It would.

Considering that you have no idea of circumstances or events, would you like to explain or justify your reasoning?

[Big Gulp]

Us?

In that case, yes. It would.

So by your rationale it'd be okay for the cops to question a group of Japanese guys on the street for no other reason than them being foreign and male, correct?

Wow, and people call me a fascist.

[Hindenburg]

So by your rationale it'd be okay for the cops to question a group of Japanese guys on the street for no other reason than them being foreign and male, correct?

Of course it is okay. It would also be okay if a cop questioned a single white christian male.
How they conduct such a questioning is another matter entirely. If they are too harsh, cause you psychological trauma and you have witnesses, sue.

You do know that it is okay for cops to question anyone on the street, right? They usually won't. Red flags increase the likelyhood that they will. Red flags, and then acting like a cunt with a chip on his shoulder, that means they'll antagonize back.

Which brings me to Draconian. Had written 200 words to explain to you my train of thought. That's obviously too much. Hence: you were asking for it.

[Broughden]

Hopefully, we'll have a few days before this degenerates into a 'broughden vs everyone else' and gets dumped into politics.

Now why would you make such a statement? Remember me? The guy who quit the NYPD and is currently working with the head of the criminal bureau at one of the city's top papers giving them background information on shoddy police work and why the DP (decline to prosecute) rate is so high?

I will argue with one point the speaker makes. Sometimes talking to a cop can help you. There are many times where I have had "reasonable suspicion" to stop and question someone because they were doing something shady, but no "probable cause" for an arrest. After speaking with them everything turned out okay.
In fact in a couple of instances the reason a car was slowly driving repeatedly through a neighborhood was because they were lost, scared out of theirs minds (being in the South Bronx) and looking for the freeway back to Manhattan, so by speaking with me I helped them.

Once again I willingly throw this statement out there....you want to know the really bad things that get done to people by police officers? Feel free to ask me. So far no one here has.

[Hindenburg]

you want to know the really bad things that get done to people by police officers? Feel free to ask me. So far no one here has.

Yes. Do tell.

[Broughden]

If you missed it on news feeds on friday:

Kop Busters - Raw Footage

Kop Busters live footage of a house in Odessa, TX.

Basically six months ago they leased out a house in Odessa, threw in some lamps/cooling a full hydro setup. What did they start growing? Christmas trees.

So why are cops raiding the house, how did they know to even look in the house or get a warrant to search the location? Suspicion is police officers are looking to use FLIR cameras to check houses for suspicious heat signatures.

Kyllo v. United States, 533 U.S. 27 (2001), held that the use of a thermal imaging device from a public vantage point to monitor the radiation of heat from a person's home was a "search" within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment, and thus required a warrant. Because the police in this case did not have a warrant, the Court reversed Kyllo's conviction for growing marijuana.

Police system has let me down twice, worst was when personal property was stolen I actually found it on kijiji for sale no more then two weeks later. I tracked the guy down, set up a meeting to buy the goods back and was in contact with the police about my stolen property. The officer said under no circumstances buy the goods back and they would meet up with a squad car to acquire the property. Needless to say the time I setup dispatch wouldn't send a car, and I had to end up waiting two hours. By that time the property was gone and the officer reported back to me the guy "was worried about telling him how/who he acquired the goods from his car might torched". Needless to say I was out almost 2k when I could of just bought my property back for $500. Kicker was the guys facebook had up postings from his friends on the wall saying "fuck the police" a little part of me died that day.

That kopbusters video was awesome.

[bhodi]

Now why would you make such a statement? Remember me? The guy who quit the NYPD and is currently working with the head of the criminal bureau at one of the city's top papers giving them background information on shoddy police work and why the DP (decline to prosecute) rate is so high?

Because threads like this inevitably turn to cop bashing, and well, you used to be one so you're a likely target.

Obviously "Keep your mouth shut" doesn't mean to be aggressive and refuse to answer any questions at all, it just means beyond polite pleasantries and who you are and what you are doing right at that moment, you should be aware that agreeing or admitting to anything can fuck you proper. That's all.

[Oban]

So by your rationale it'd be okay for the cops to question a group of Japanese guys on the street for no other reason than them being foreign and male, correct?

Well, yeah, those japs bombed Pearl Harbor.

[DraconianOne]

Which brings me to Draconian. Had written 200 words to explain to you my train of thought. That's obviously too much.

Obviously.

[Morat20]

you have to treat them all like they're petty bullies looking to find someone to fuck.

That's pretty much THE fastest way to get any cop to go petty bully looking to find someone to fuck on your ass. Horrible advice.

You seem to have taken the exact opposite of my meaning.

Treating them like a petty bully looking for someone to fuck means being really fucking polite, but very firm on anything they ask.

I treat cops with a great deal of "Yes Sir, No Ma'am" etc, because I don't want to give the petty bullies among them something to latch on to. If they want to come into my house, my response would be a very apologetic "I'm sorry, but not without a warrant". If they want to search my car, well -- I'm under the impression they can just impound if they want to, but I'm going to say "No Sir, you may not" and see where it goes from there.

If nothing else, I want to be on the record -- very politely -- as opposing the search. Implied consent is a fucker.

[Hindenburg]

That I have. Apologies.

[Morat20]

That I have. Apologies.

Well, I didn't really make it clear either.

But yeah, be polite. Because like I said -- you can't tell the petty assholes from the professionals. In my experience, politeness doesn't buy you much from the petty assholes but the professional ones at least occasional turn tickets into warnings because you didn't just piss them off.

But even for the nicest cop in the world, who seems to REALLY want to be my friend and help me -- I'm going to be polite, but I'm saying the absolute minimum, and if he wants to see inside my house, my car, or my backpack he's going to have to force it. I'll be very polite, but I want it to be very clear that I said "No" and ultimately he claimed state authority to do so.

Unfortunately, I WILL show him my ID -- which I still think was a bullshit SCOTUS decision. I can understand traffic stops for drivers and the like (a driver's license is required to drive!), but I don't see why random cop stopping random passers-by needs to see ID if they're not driving or not being arrested.

[Sky]

"Do you know why I pulled you over?" "You wanted to check out the '08 FJ?"  

[Yegolev]

I don't see why random cop stopping random passers-by needs to see ID if they're not driving or not being arrested.

Terrorists don't have access to fake IDs.

[Morat20]

"Do you know why I pulled you over?" "You wanted to check out the '08 FJ?"  

I've found flat out lying about my knowledge of the speed limit to work, especially if you know the local roads well enough. But that's probably because my local town has a weird ass "Speed Limit is 20 unless posted otherwise" law, and they randomly seem to assign speeds of 40 or 30 to streets that are absolutely identical.

So telling the cop "I thought the speed limit was 40" is rather believable.

[NowhereMan]

Of course I'm pretty sure that means you've admitted to speeding, ignorance of the law is no excuse and whatnot (unless of course there actually aren't any signs, in which case you could beat it in court).

[Yegolev]

Cops don't ask me any questions like that very often anymore.  The last guy didn't either, but he gave me a warning anyway for whatever reason.  Last time I recall being questioned, it was "Sir, do you know the speed limit on Oglesby Road?"  Naturally, I said "I do."  Normally it's just "Reason I pulled you over is I got you going XX in a XX zone" and since I already have my license out, he quickly disappears for a while and comes back with a pad to sign.  I don't argue because I'm always fucking speeding.

[Polysorbate80]

The last time I got ticketed was for keeping my studded tires on too long.  Cop lights go on, I turn on my blinker to pull over.  Thinking of a cop I once knew who got killed by a car while ticketing someone, I decide that instead of making the cop stand next to highway traffic, I'll pull just a tad farther ahead into a nice safe parking lot. 

Do I get thanks?  Nope, I get a lecture for not instantly pulling to the side of the road.  Next time, Mr. Policeman gets to play in traffic.

That one also taught me not to mail in my payment--I went by the courthouse to drop it off instead, and found out the cop overstated the amount of the fine.  Saved $22 on that one.

[Morat20]

Of course I'm pretty sure that means you've admitted to speeding, ignorance of the law is no excuse and whatnot (unless of course there actually aren't any signs, in which case you could beat it in court).

I don't imagijne you'd have a lot of luck contesting a ticket based on "The officer was totally lying about what the radar gun said".

And in my area, lack of signs means....the speed limit is 20. Written write into the bloody law.

[Salamok]

Of course I'm pretty sure that means you've admitted to speeding, ignorance of the law is no excuse and whatnot (unless of course there actually aren't any signs, in which case you could beat it in court).

I don't imagijne you'd have a lot of luck contesting a ticket based on "The officer was totally lying about what the radar gun said".

If he doesn't happen to be in court the day you show up then this instant win.

[Morat20]

Of course I'm pretty sure that means you've admitted to speeding, ignorance of the law is no excuse and whatnot (unless of course there actually aren't any signs, in which case you could beat it in court).

I don't imagijne you'd have a lot of luck contesting a ticket based on "The officer was totally lying about what the radar gun said".

If he doesn't happen to be in court the day you show up then this instant win.

Which means it doesn't matter what you said.

95% of my tickets are things like "Crap, forgot to have my car inspected" or "Crap, I just got the warning but didn't have my proof of insurance on me". Both of those are dismissable (if you get your car inspected/registered within 5 business days of getting the ticket or you currently have insurance and just don't have the proof on you).

The latter pisses me off, because ONLY in my damn podunk little shithole town do I have to go up before a judge and SHOW HIM MY FUCKING INSURANCE CARD TO PROVE I HAD IT.  Every other fucking place around here? You just show the damn clerk, like if you were paying a ticket. So instead, I have to take three hours of my fucking day to go sit with a hundred other people, 95 of whom are there to show a goddamn judge a piece of paper, for no apparent reason.

[LK]

This is a highly informative and interesting video that had me riveted the entire way through. I'd love to see other stuff like this.

[bhodi]

The latter pisses me off, because ONLY in my damn podunk little shithole town do I have to go up before a judge and SHOW HIM MY FUCKING INSURANCE CARD TO PROVE I HAD IT.  Every other fucking place around here? You just show the damn clerk, like if you were paying a ticket. So instead, I have to take three hours of my fucking day to go sit with a hundred other people, 95 of whom are there to show a goddamn judge a piece of paper, for no apparent reason.

In Fairfax county, which I guess is the second richest country in America, used to be the first until all the rich people decided to move one county over, you have to do the same. It's a gigantic waste of time, and the $250 or so (yeah, they've decided to see how much they can get people to pay - remember the "installment plan" debacle last year?) ensures that everyone WILL show up.

[Oban]

I miss Reston.

[Furiously]

You wantbout of a ticket? Simple method. Get a police officer uniform and leave it and a badge in plain sight. Firefighter's uniform or even a security guard uniform work. Brotherhood of the badge.

[Engels]

true story. I donated to the Seattle PD for some function, they mailed me a car side window sticker, and the 3 times I got stopped after that in what I imagine ordinary circumetances would warrant a ticket, I got off with just a warning :P

[Nazrat]

My Attorney General of Texas sticker works wonders on traffic stops also.  :)

Seriously, if you are detained for anything other than a minor traffic violations, shut your damn mouth!  You don't know what you are doing or what they are thinking.  By the time that you get to an attorney, you may have already lost your case. 

P.S.  Never blow into the breathalyzer if you had alcohol that day. 

There's your free legal advice for the day. 

[Broughden]

You wantbout of a ticket? Simple method. Get a police officer uniform and leave it and a badge in plain sight. Firefighter's uniform or even a security guard uniform work. Brotherhood of the badge.

See bolded part. Dont do this.
In most instances without a corresponding and legal ID providing proof of your employment as a police officer in most municipalities this will get you arrested or at least detained for questioning.

[Triforcer]

You wantbout of a ticket? Simple method. Get a police officer uniform and leave it and a badge in plain sight. Firefighter's uniform or even a security guard uniform work. Brotherhood of the badge.

See bolded part. Dont do this.
In most instances without a corresponding and legal ID providing proof of your employment as a police officer in most municipalities this will get you arrested or at least detained for questioning.

Thats interesting.  I know that impersonating a police officer is a crime, but merely having a "costume" in the back seat without referring to yourself as a police officer or mentioning the costume?  You can always say it was for Halloween or something.

But, like Broughden said, none of that later legal stuff is going to stop a cop who takes it the wrong way from taking you to the station for a few hours on general principle.

[Broughden]

You wantbout of a ticket? Simple method. Get a police officer uniform and leave it and a badge in plain sight. Firefighter's uniform or even a security guard uniform work. Brotherhood of the badge.

See bolded part. Dont do this.
In most instances without a corresponding and legal ID providing proof of your employment as a police officer in most municipalities this will get you arrested or at least detained for questioning.

Thats interesting.  I know that impersonating a police officer is a crime, but merely having a "costume" in the back seat without referring to yourself as a police officer or mentioning the costume?  You can always say it was for Halloween or something.

But, like Broughden said, none of that later legal stuff is going to stop a cop who takes it the wrong way from taking you to the station for a few hours on general principle.

He didnt say "costume" he said "uniform" and "badge", and  in MANY municipalities/states merely possessing them without lawful authority is in itself enough to arrest you (misd charge). New York City and state being but one I am aware of (190.26 penal code). The uniform dealers are licensed by the city and if they sell to someone they shouldnt they will lose their license and also be prosecuted (190.27).

At some point during the traffic stop Im sure the officer would see the uniform and ask the obvious question, "You are on the job?" If the defendant lied and said he was, he just stepped up to a felony IIRC.

Fake edit: I was wrong. Under 190.26 of the NYS penal law merely displaying them is a class E felony.

I only arrested one guy once for something similar. He had a placard in his SUV windshield which would lead one to believe he was with the state police. Given he was from Ghana I didnt believe him. He got locked up. Left back to Africa while out on bail and never returned.

[Triforcer]

Well, I don't disagree that actually telling the officer you are "on the job" or possessing an ACTUAL uniform or badge is a crime.  But (without researching the statutes) I'm fairly certain there is probably an exception for Halloween costumes, strippers, etc (or maybe there is no exception, but the law is not enforced in obvious Halloween-type situations). 

Still, overall, too risky a method.  Donate to get the PD sticker and hope for the best.

[shiznitz]

Well, I don't disagree that actually telling the officer you are "on the job" or possessing an ACTUAL uniform or badge is a crime.  But (without researching the statutes) I'm fairly certain there is probably an exception for Halloween costumes, strippers, etc (or maybe there is no exception, but the law is not enforced in obvious Halloween-type situations). 

Still, overall, too risky a method.  Donate to get the PD sticker and hope for the best.

There is a hidden cost to donating, though. You will get callled about 20 times a year for donations.  I used to do this and just got completely fed up with the solicitations.