Don't talk to cops (IANALBIPOOTI)

[bhodi]

If you live in the USA, you need to watch this. If you don't have time, you should make time.

To get an idea, watch a few minutes at 3:30, 8:30, and then 15 minutes in on the first video, and the first 3 minutes on the second.

Don't talk to cops, part 1
Don't talk to cops, part 2

I actually didn't know a few things, like the fact that anything you tell police can and will be used against you, but nothing you tell them can be used to help you since it's considered hearsay and cannot be brought up in court. But just watch the video. It's pretty scary and I guess it does feed my hatred and distrust a little but it's better to be informed about this sort of thing. I guess it's a good indication about how serious this is that the first thing a defense attorney does is file a motion to suppress any and all conversations you may have had without him present.

The moral of this particular story is that you'll fuck yourself no matter WHAT you say, even if you weren't involved, so just keep your mouth shut, period. Or you'll probably regret it.

Hopefully, we'll have a few days before this degenerates into a 'broughden vs everyone else' and gets dumped into politics.

[Jimbo]

Chris Rock pretty much sums it up (yes it is old, but still stands to reason).

[K9]

That was fascinating, thanks.

[Hindenburg]

It's almost universal nowadays. Here there's no hearsay thingamajig, but even then there's no reason to talk to the police. Or the D.A.. Or the judge.

Whatever you have to say, your lawyer will say for you.

[Paelos]

It's in Miranda. You have the right to remain silent. You have the right to an attorney. Everyone should use both, even if you are innocent.

[bhodi]

It's in Miranda. You have the right to remain silent. You have the right to an attorney. Everyone should use both, even if you are innocent.

And, as it says in the video, it's a Miranda warning. It's a refresher course in your rights as an American citizen. Those rights apply before that warning is given, and those rights apply just getting stopped on the street - before any sort of formal questioning is undertaken (if any).

[Miasma]

That was enlightening.

[DeathInABottle]

Thanks for the link - that was worthwhile.  I suppose the same logic applies in Canada as well as the States?

[Oban]

Canada is a tad different, but the same basic principle of protection against self-incrimination is spelled out in two different sections of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

[waffel]

That was really interesting. Thanks for that.

[Quinton]

That was great.  Worth watching the whole thing, really.  Thanks for sharing.

[FatuousTwat]

Thanks, I live in a small town, so the cops we rent are all dicks. I got picked up for violating curfew on my 16th birthday, when the curfew only applied to people under the age of 16. He even handcuffed me and patted me down, then wanted to search my house.

Also:

[Morat20]

Never invite the cop into your house. If he wants to talk to you, that's what your porch is for. Also, when you step out, close the door firmly behind you -- you don't want him to claim he had a reasonable belief you were inviting him in.

Of course, as I've noted elsewhere, the cops in my town are about 50/50 assholes/decent guys. Since they don't wear "Hi, I'm a fucking twat" name tags, you have to treat them all like they're petty bullies looking to find someone to fuck.

[Hindenburg]

you have to treat them all like they're petty bullies looking to find someone to fuck.

That's pretty much THE fastest way to get any cop to go petty bully looking to find someone to fuck on your ass. Horrible advice.

Don't antagonize them, and most won't antagonize you back. For the few that do, well, that vid covers it. Always start amicable.

[TheWalrus]

you have to treat them all like they're petty bullies looking to find someone to fuck.

That's pretty much THE fastest way to get any cop to go petty bully looking to find someone to fuck on your ass. Horrible advice.

Don't antagonize them, and most won't antagonize you back. For the few that do, well, that vid covers it. Always start amicable.

Bingo. Theres a reason I only get a speeding ticket one out of 5 times. Don't start out being a dick. In fact, don't be a dick period.

[angry.bob]

Splendid.

I can't think of a source of legal advice I trust less than a YouTube clip of a lecture at Regent University by a guy who taught Monica Goodling and called her "outstanding". You fucking retards, this shit is one step up from the "urban" community's "don't snitch". It's the groundwork to shift the perception of someone pleading the fifth into a badge of honor so when/if all the Regent grads in Justice start getting hammered on they won't look so bad. I tried to watch it, but knowing that this guy is the source of so much of the cuntery now going on in our government it turned my stomach.

You know who should keep their mouth shut to the cops? Someone being questioned as a suspect, and honestly life has shown me that most of the time cops on the ground are treating someone like a suspect there's plenty of reason to suspect them or they cut them loose. Officer Beatcop has shit he needs to do way more than try to entrap you for some bullshit misdemeanor. If you live someplace where your cops have time to do dumb shit like that, you have too many cops for the amount of work to do. It's like keeping your dog tired to keep him out of mischief. A tired dog is a good dog. A busy cop is a cop who doesn't have the time to put the screws to random people because he feels like it. So I suppose this advice is useful if you're actually guilty of something, but that's hardly a recommendation.

That Chris Rock video was waaaaaayyyyyyyy better advice than this shit probably was. Be polite, respectful, and helpful. Like you would with any professional going about their profession. Treating a cop who wants to talk to you for a minute like he's running a three card monte game to stick you with an assault charge is asking to be looked at really closely, and with good reason.

[Kitsune]

I disagree, bob.  Of course you don't be a douche to cops, and if someone's house is on fire and a policeman runs up and asks if there are kids in the house, you don't stonewall out of fear that they're trying to trap you with some kind of mind game.

And there's a difference here between an obviously-guilty person taking the fifth on the witness stand to try to be a weasel and a person exercising their right not to be volunteering information to police that could get them thrown in jail.  If you'd seen the video, you'd see that the lawyer produced examples of innocent people who went to prison based largely on fucking up and saying something stupid while being interrogated that was then presented to the court as decisive evidence.

The first and best line of defense is obviously to not go committing any felonies.  But if you don't commit a felony and still wind up dragged off by the police, the second line of defense is shutting up your stupid mouth before any of your nervous chatter gets you convicted of something you didn't do.  Only makes sense.

[Samprimary]

Sorry, I'm still going to talk to cops :/

I'll just know what not to say, is all.

[Hindenburg]

You know who should keep their mouth shut to the cops? Someone being questioned as a suspect

Shit, really?
Damn, and here I was, thinking that that's exactly what the chap was saying.

Hey fuckwit, pleading the fifth IS a badge of honor.
Means you have something vaguely resembling a brain inside your head.

[Jeff Kelly]

If you are a suspect or even a witness in a criminal investigation you shouldn't talk to the police.

Police usually treat you as a witness for as long as they can get away with it. They only will treat you as a suspect if they absolutely have to.

A friend of mine is a defence attorney and his experience is that the police tries to extract as much information as they can out of suspects while giving them the impression that they are still considered witnesses.

This has several advantages:

- Suspect is more likely to incriminate himself because he consideres himself a witness to the crime and not a suspect.
- No right to legal counsel
- No miranda rights

The point is that the police might already consider you to be a suspect not a witness when they question you.

Also the person considered to be the suspect and the person that actually committed the crime do not have to be the same.

In murder cases the usual suspects are husband or wife, close relatives or kids and siblings. If you report something valuable stolen you will most likely be also investigated for insurance fraud. Becoming a suspect in a criminal investigation is easier than most of you think. If they then catch you telling what they consider to be a lie, you just went from suspect to prime suspect. Even if you just misremembered something that was weeks ago.

As the video states it doesn't matter if you actually did it. The DA just has to prove beyond resonable doubt that you had motive and means. Catching you with a supposed lie might just be enough for him to build a case.

[NowhereMan]

- Suspect is more likely to incriminate himself because he consideres himself a witness to the crime and not a suspect.
- No right to legal counsel
- No miranda rights

First one is a good point. The second one, I'm pretty sure, is false although I'd say that you'll certainly be looked at much more closely if you insist on legal counsel before giving a witness statement. The third, as has been pointed out in the video and the thread, isn't true. You don't get Miranda rights but a Miranda warning, you've got the rights anyway.

[Big Gulp]

It's simple, really.  If you get pulled over for something like speeding and they ask you why they pulled you over just say something ambiguous like, "I think I have a good idea".  It doesn't antagonize the cop, but it also doesn't say that you knowingly violated the law.

Outside of driving infractions (the main way that people usually come into contact with cops) f they ever want to question you about anything else just say, "I'm sorry, but my policy is not to talk to the police".  It'll antagonize them, sure, but it's not like they can do anything about it.  And for the record, fuck the police.  Police forces are composed almost entirely of those chunky kids in high school who nobody liked and decided to become a cop solely for the authoritative penis substitute it represents.

[Hindenburg]

The second one, I'm pretty sure, is false

One always has the right to legal counsel. At least down here.

State won't provide it for a witness, though. You'll have to fork out some cash.

[Merusk]

This should have been started in politics. You knew it would go there in the first 3 posts.  Bunch of fuckwits with authority problems.

 

[NowhereMan]

Also what the hell does that guy mean by starting the whole thing off with, "We're lucky to live in America. In Spain or Italy the police can do whatever they like to you, anything goes." He made out that getting arrested in a first world European country is pretty much equivalent to being sent to Guantanamo.

[Signe]

What?  You guys are nuts.  When a cop stops you driving,  you smile and ask if he has his handcuffs with him.  If it's a woman cop, blame a man.  Everyone knows that!

When I was underage, I was in trouble with the police all the time.  Pot, trespassing, malicious mischief... the list goes on and on and on.  The worst thing I ever did was help drive a huge steam roller off of a cliff in Santa Fe but we didn't get caught, though the police came to our house the day after to ask questions.  Someone ratted!  Nothing came of it, though. The worst thing I ever got caught doing was rolling one of those huge tractor tires down a hill and into someone's front bay window.  It was a tall hill and it kept picking up speed and when it hit the house it went right through and the front of the house collapsed.  I would have run away faster, but I couldn't stop watching!  The tire was just standing there at the top of a hill!  I'd call that an attractive nuisance.  Seriously, I was surprised (and slightly gleeful) that the gigantic thing actually moved.  It must have been ready to go, anyway.

I would never say anything useful to the cops when they busted me.  Inane babble seemed to work, although it wasn't a conscious plan or anything.  They always let me go.  A friend of my father's worked for the police.  He told him that the cops thought I was funny and that I would grow out of it.  I suggest silence or inane babbling to be the best strategy, especially if you're guilty!  Also, get a lawyer with a pony tail.

[fuser]

The moral of this particular story is that you'll fuck yourself no matter WHAT you say, even if you weren't involved, so just keep your mouth shut, period. Or you'll probably regret it.

[Hindenburg]

Also what the hell does that guy mean by starting the whole thing off with, "We're lucky to live in America. In Spain or Italy the police can do whatever they like to you, anything goes."

Fear mongering?

In all truth, they may get physical with you during interrogation all over the world. Most prominent catalyst is likelyhood of getting away with it.
His examples were, obviously, terrible.

[DraconianOne]

In Spain or Italy the police can do whatever they like to you, anything goes." He made out that getting arrested in a first world European country is pretty much equivalent to being sent to Guantanamo.

Ever had a run in with police in Spain or Italy? They're fuckers and there's no two ways about it. (Okay, so I don't know about Italy but Spain and France I can tell you about.)

[Big Gulp]

Ever had a run in with police in Spain or Italy? They're fuckers and there's no two ways about it. (Okay, so I don't know about Italy but Spain and France I can tell you about.)

Even Switzerland is like this.  We got fucked with in the Geneva train station because we were camped out there at 3AM waiting for our morning train.  They screwed with us for a good 45 minutes even when it was apparent that we were tourists and not doing anything more nefarious than crashing out with all our backpacks while waiting for a train.  Absolute cocksuckers.

German cops were better, though.  They weren't exactly warm and fuzzy, but they were professional.

[DraconianOne]

Conversely, all my encounters with UK police have been good (insofar as they could be called good).  At least I know when I get pulled over for speeding/traffic infringements at the most I'm going to have someone being sarcastic at me and rather than reach for their tazer/gun.

That's not to say that they're great because god knows there are many, many accounts of crappy UK police but I wouldn't lump them in with the stereotypes of over-zealous US law enforcement which a lot of you guys are not doing anything to quell.

[Big Gulp]

but I wouldn't lump them in with the stereotypes of over-zealous US law enforcement which a lot of you guys are not doing anything to quell.

I wouldn't quell them because I despise, loathe, and hate cops.

[Yegolev]

He told him that the cops thought I was funny and that I would grow out of it.

Joke's on them, eh?

Also, I believe this advice is mostly for people without tits and cute giggles.

[Salamok]

you have to treat them all like they're petty bullies looking to find someone to fuck.

That's pretty much THE fastest way to get any cop to go petty bully looking to find someone to fuck on your ass. Horrible advice.

Don't antagonize them, and most won't antagonize you back. For the few that do, well, that vid covers it. Always start amicable.

Bingo. Theres a reason I only get a speeding ticket one out of 5 times. Don't start out being a dick. In fact, don't be a dick period.

I have a fairly good track record of not getting written up by taking the opposite approach.  If they want to write me up for some bullshit speed trap i'm not going to ease their conscience by being nice.

When asked "do you know how fast you were going?" my favorite response is "I know exactly how fast I was going!".  I also enjoy going on a rant about why they never seem to pull over the cell phone assholes that drive everywhere at 20mph below the posted limit.  My goal is to pretty much be as annoying as possible so they just want to get rid of me as quickly as they can, plus if they do give me a ticket at least I had some fun.

[fuser]

If you missed it on news feeds on friday:

Kop Busters - Raw Footage

Kop Busters live footage of a house in Odessa, TX.

Basically six months ago they leased out a house in Odessa, threw in some lamps/cooling a full hydro setup. What did they start growing? Christmas trees.

So why are cops raiding the house, how did they know to even look in the house or get a warrant to search the location? Suspicion is police officers are looking to use FLIR cameras to check houses for suspicious heat signatures.

Kyllo v. United States, 533 U.S. 27 (2001), held that the use of a thermal imaging device from a public vantage point to monitor the radiation of heat from a person's home was a "search" within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment, and thus required a warrant. Because the police in this case did not have a warrant, the Court reversed Kyllo's conviction for growing marijuana.

Police system has let me down twice, worst was when personal property was stolen I actually found it on kijiji for sale no more then two weeks later. I tracked the guy down, set up a meeting to buy the goods back and was in contact with the police about my stolen property. The officer said under no circumstances buy the goods back and they would meet up with a squad car to acquire the property. Needless to say the time I setup dispatch wouldn't send a car, and I had to end up waiting two hours. By that time the property was gone and the officer reported back to me the guy "was worried about telling him how/who he acquired the goods from his car might torched". Needless to say I was out almost 2k when I could of just bought my property back for $500. Kicker was the guys facebook had up postings from his friends on the wall saying "fuck the police" a little part of me died that day.