Sandboxes. Why not?

[Xilren's Twin]

What's most profitable in EVE compared to invested time? Mining, trading, running missions or PvPing? I doubt anyone will chose his/her profession in EVE based on what's most profitable. They choose out of personal tastes.

I was under the impression players would do activities they didnt enjoy purely to supplement the playstyle they did.  I.e. if mining makes more money than pvping, players will mine just to earn cash to support their pvp and typically bitch about it.  It kinds of the same complaint in games like DAoC or SB where people who wanted to RvR had to get through a bunch of pve they considered unfun.  The question is, do you think that they way it should be, or would it be better in a "sandboxy" game to allows those who want to pvp all the time to be able to earn enough to keep them doing just that?

I also think that in terms of Sandbox vs directed game experience, the target market demographic skews much higher in age for sandbox.  Kids as young as 9 can level multiple characters to max in WoW without issue, seeing pretty much all that game has to offer.  Drop those same players in UO and they would be completely lost if more experienced players dont help them figure out what to do. The Game vs Toy concept is inherently self limiting your audience.

[Malakili]

What's most profitable in EVE compared to invested time? Mining, trading, running missions or PvPing? I doubt anyone will chose his/her profession in EVE based on what's most profitable. They choose out of personal tastes.

I was under the impression players would do activities they didnt enjoy purely to supplement the playstyle they did.  I.e. if mining makes more money than pvping, players will mine just to earn cash to support their pvp and typically bitch about it.  It kinds of the same complaint in games like DAoC or SB where people who wanted to RvR had to get through a bunch of pve they considered unfun.  The question is, do you think that they way it should be, or would it be better in a "sandboxy" game to allows those who want to pvp all the time to be able to earn enough to keep them doing just that?

I also think that in terms of Sandbox vs directed game experience, the target market demographic skews much higher in age for sandbox.  Kids as young as 9 can level multiple characters to max in WoW without issue, seeing pretty much all that game has to offer.  Drop those same players in UO and they would be completely lost if more experienced players dont help them figure out what to do. The Game vs Toy concept is inherently self limiting your audience.

As an industrialist in EVE, i play it that way because I enjoy it.  It allows me to have an impact on the game world, while not having to be super intense about it all the time.  I mean, I am no "carebear" and think PvP is an important part of the game (nor to I begrudge pirates who try to take me out while mining), but one of the things that IS nice about eve is that it supports vastly different play styles.   People can get by with no industry skills just fine.  For someone who enjoys PvP, the PvE missions are a breeze and you can make plenty of ISK doing that as well.  You can make a ton of money in PvP, but of course, you can also lose a ton of money.   

I would imagine good pilots can make enough ISK to continue with their PvP almost indefinitely, but even the best pilots have streaks of bad luck that might cost them a couple high value ships in a short amount of time, meaning they might have to move to something else in order to make some money.  I think thats alright though.  EVE is more of a "sci fi simulator" than a traditional "game."  Its not a flight/combat sim (ala TIE Fighter) nor is it meant to be.

[Falconeer]

What's most profitable in EVE compared to invested time? Mining, trading, running missions or PvPing? I doubt anyone will chose his/her profession in EVE based on what's most profitable. They choose out of personal tastes.

I was under the impression players would do activities they didnt enjoy purely to supplement the playstyle they did.  I.e. if mining makes more money than pvping, players will mine just to earn cash to support their pvp and typically bitch about it.  It kinds of the same complaint in games like DAoC or SB where people who wanted to RvR had to get through a bunch of pve they considered unfun. 

What Malakili just said.
Also, you used two dikus to prove a point about sandboxes.

The question is, do you think that they way it should be, or would it be better in a "sandboxy" game to allows those who want to pvp all the time to be able to earn enough to keep them doing just that?

The second one. And that is usually what happens in the sandboxes I know. As far as I can remember you were never forced to do any of the "alternative activities" (PvE on the other hand is a mandatory bother but has nothing to do with sandbox or diku per se) if what you liked was just PvP. The worst it could happen to you was the need for some other players' services, as entertainers in SWG, smiths in UO and I guess industrialists in EVE, but that was kinda marginal if what you really wanted was to just whack stuff. And that is good. As it's the opposite: you can be an excellent crafter without having to whack stuff but could eventually need rare recipes or ingredients provided you by adventurers.