t2 turrets - why are they popular even without t2 ammo?

[eldaec]

As far as I can tell t2 turrets have exactly the same stats as top named, use more cap/power/cpu, and the only upside is that they can use t2 ammo - the value of which is inconsistent.


I can understand why your t2 sniper apoc wants access to aurora crystals, but half the ship builds I see recommend faction ammo in t2 guns.

Are these people all crazy or am I missing a trick? Why would you want a t2 gun if you intend to load it with t1 ammo?

[TripleDES]

T2 turrets are cheaper than best named.

[MahrinSkel]

More availability, not regionally limited in source, plus the option to use T2 ammo when it's useful.  If you're choosing whether to train T2 *now* (as well as the secondary skills necessary to fit them on many ships), it probably makes more sense to go with top named equivalents and save the training time for something else (which is why the top named are creeping up in price), but many people have already trained T2 from when it was uber.

--Dave

[Moosehands]

Medium Blaster Specialization
"2% bonus per skill level to the damage of medium turrets requiring Medium Blaster Specialization"

You can get a damage boost even with T1 ammo as far as I understand it.  Is that not the case?

[ajax34i]

I think it's cause when you're deployed in 0.0 (at a POS, or at outposts that may or may not have all the goodies you can find in Empire space), it's easy to change ammo on your ship to fit your needs, but it's hard to keep changing the guns and fittings to suit every single situation.

T2 long range weapons (rails, arty) with T2 long range ammo can hit at 180km I think, and that's one of the "standard" ways to fit battleships for big blob warfare.  So then, you can easily take the same battleship, change the ammo to antimatter/nuclear, and be able to function around gates in a small gang, without the need to dock or to find a POS that has a ship maintenance array (not all do).

[Goumindong]

It is indeed the case that you do more damage with tech 2 turrets. At spec 4, you will even out-damage the basic faction turrets by a small amount

Also, tech 2 long range ammo of all sorts[Null, Barrage, Scorch, Tremor, Aurora, Spike] is really fantastic and should never be underestimated.

[Endie]

Yeah, the difference between meta 4 and T2 in price can be enormous on rails.  I didn't know I got the damage boost on T1 ammo, though.

I like to swap to faction ammo when our fleet warpin is at crappy megathron range, but in MY ROKH I also like being able to hit from almost absolute safety when I warp back in 50km further away with spike.

[IainC]

T2 guns definitely do get the 2-10% damage bonus from spec skill regardless of ammo loaded. T2 ammo is situational but when you do need it, it gives you a huge edge - I have a sniping Megathron whcih has 175k optimal using t1 guns and ammo which turns into a 228km optimal with a t2 gun and t2 ammo even though the two guns have the same base stats (425mm Railgun II vs 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun. Note that a lot of T2 ammo and crystals have hefty downsides like speed penalties or shield reduction.

[Goumindong]

I hope that is with drugs, because otherwise you've lost that 228km spike sniper.

[IainC]

I hope that is with drugs, because otherwise you've lost that 228km spike sniper.

No drugs. How do you mean 'lost'?

[Goumindong]

I hope that is with drugs, because otherwise you've lost that 228km spike sniper.

No drugs. How do you mean 'lost'?

Locus rigs are no longer stacking penalty free. So with 2 tech 2 locus rigs, 2 tracking enhancers, and a 5% optimal range implant you're topping out at 216km optimal.

[Ratadm]

Probably included falloff accidentally.

[IainC]

Probably included falloff accidentally.

Nope. Just optimal - those numbers are from EFT though so they don't include the locus rig nerf in QR. So yeah, I won't have a 216km optimal anymore, doesn't change the fact that spike ammo from T2 guns gives me a significant advantage over T1 guns.

[Slayerik]

Nothing wrong with a sniper mega, anyone that says otherwise is probably a caldari fag.

[Endie]

Nothing wrong with a sniper mega, anyone that says otherwise is probably a caldari fag.

Yep. As I sit there in my Rokh, stuck  doing the same-old-same-old rigmarole of shooting megas at 180km in complete safety and still being able to fit a double doomsday tank while they can't even target me in a sane fitting I often wish that I flew gallente.

[Slayerik]

Luckily for me I'm not big on blob warfare or sissy ECM, so Gallente asskicking ships work just fine :)

Caldari.....are for gheys and mission runners.

[dwindlehop]

Barrage M.

[Thrawn]

Yep. As I sit there in my Rokh, stuck  doing the same-old-same-old rigmarole of shooting megas at 180km in complete safety and still being able to fit a double doomsday tank while they can't even target me in a sane fitting I often wish that I flew gallente.

Don't forget that scorpion that is still another 70k behind you that is jamming the mega anyways. 

Ok, I actually really like Megas....but I gotta stand up for my Caldari background!

[apocrypha]

Every time I've ever flown a scorp in anger I've ended up being used as the bait.... I consider them large, funny-shaped coffins now 

[Nerf]

The problem with caldari is that by the time you discover the Rokh kicks ass you've already dumped 6million into missiles and let out a resounding "fuuuuuuuuuuck"

[Slayerik]

My problem with the Rokh is its DPS :)

I've never been fond of ships that lack damage mods.

[Goumindong]

My problem with the Rokh is its DPS :)

I've never been fond of ships that lack damage mods.

There are three major components to a fleet sniper.

1. DPS
2. Range
3. EHP

Neither is more important than the last.

The Rokh, it has the second two down pat. It has them down so well that it is hands down, the best sniper in the game. Close second is the Apoc and then the Abaddon[depending on engagement range, the Abaddon has a better EHP/DPS ratio than the Apoc]

After the Abaddon and Apoc you have a long way to go to the Maelstrom which is slightly better than the Megathron.

After the Megathron, you're in lol comedy range with the tempest, then the Armageddon and Dominix

[Jayce]

The Rokh, it has the second two down pat. It has them down so well that it is hands down, the best sniper in the game. Close second is the Apoc and then the Abaddon[depending on engagement range, the Abaddon has a better EHP/DPS ratio than the Apoc]

After the Abaddon and Apoc you have a long way to go to the Maelstrom which is slightly better than the Megathron.

After the Megathron, you're in lol comedy range with the tempest, then the Armageddon and Dominix

I don't know much about sniper battleships, but I do know that all Amarr ships suffer from a lack of variety in damage right?  Not a lot of kinetic lasers.

Also, the Maelstrom may  be slightly better but it's much more expensive than the Mega, IIRC.

[Slayerik]

My problem with the Rokh is its DPS :)

I've never been fond of ships that lack damage mods.

There are three major components to a fleet sniper.

1. DPS
2. Range
3. EHP

Neither is more important than the last.

The Rokh, it has the second two down pat. It has them down so well that it is hands down, the best sniper in the game. Close second is the Apoc and then the Abaddon[depending on engagement range, the Abaddon has a better EHP/DPS ratio than the Apoc]

After the Abaddon and Apoc you have a long way to go to the Maelstrom which is slightly better than the Megathron.

After the Megathron, you're in lol comedy range with the tempest, then the Armageddon and Dominix

I had been done talking about sniping for a while.

Rokh, to me, is only exceptional at sniping.

As a blaster boat, its ok/pretty good. It's a bad RR battleship. It has a poor 50m3 drone bay. It has low DPS.

In smaller engagements, the megathron can be a great mid range sniper, up close DPS pounder, remote rep battleship, with a formidable tank. It's large drone bay can be usefull for a wide range of purposes.

IMO, it is no contest.

[Goumindong]

I don't know much about sniper battleships, but I do know that all Amarr ships suffer from a lack of variety in damage right?  Not a lot of kinetic lasers.

Also, the Maelstrom may  be slightly better but it's much more expensive than the Mega, IIRC.

No, they suffer from "olol cap" if you don't have BS 5.

Damage type variation isn't a big deal in sniper fleets when tanks are relatively small. And while you will find more armor tanks than shield tanks, the shield tanks are some of the best in the game.

The Maelstrom is not that much more expensive than the Mega, its the cheapest of the tier 3 battleships and, as a battleship, fully insurable. Little known fact. Maelstroms are about as expensive as Apocs due to the cost of ammo for Amarr.

I had been done talking about sniping for a while.

Rokh, to me, is only exceptional at sniping.

As a blaster boat, its ok/pretty good. It's a bad RR battleship. It has a poor 50m3 drone bay. It has low DPS.

In smaller engagements, the megathron can be a great mid range sniper, up close DPS pounder, remote rep battleship, with a formidable tank. It's large drone bay can be usefull for a wide range of purposes.

IMO, it is no contest.

Sorry about that, no one else was done with talking about sniping so i just kinda figured you hadn't started talking about something else without letting any of us know.

[Slayerik]

Luckily for me I'm not big on blob warfare or sissy ECM, so Gallente asskicking ships work just fine :)

Caldari.....are for gheys and mission runners.

That was pretty much my final sniping segment.

Sweet. I just quoted myself. Either way, when you deem it time please feel free to counter my points about the mega in the situations I mentioned :)

[eldaec]

I don't know much about sniper battleships, but I do know that all Amarr ships suffer from a lack of variety in damage right?  Not a lot of kinetic lasers.

Not many EM or explosive railguns either.

Or non-kinetic artillery.

[Amarr HM]

I don't know much about sniper battleships, but I do know that all Amarr ships suffer from a lack of variety in damage right?  Not a lot of kinetic lasers.

Not many EM or explosive railguns either.

Or non-kinetic artillery.

Yeh amarr used to be really EM heavy with their lasers now it's around 50/50,
T2 turrets = cheaper
T2 ammo = cheaper & lots of damage but has differing negative effects why people opt for the more expensive faction variants.