Lost [FINALE SPOILERS PAGE 25 ONWARDS]

[Quinton]

"Now *that*, I can do." - Jacob

Interesting that MIB's instructions for killing Jacob are the same as Dogan's instructions for killing the MIB.  The former ineffective due to Jacob beating the crap out of Richard, the latter (possibly) due to Sayid failing to stab him *before* he spoke (as instructed).

Still loving season six.

[Vaiti]

Ben stabbed Jacob after he spoke however. So maybe the dagger just doesn't work on MiB and Dogan didn't know that. Or did, and just wanted to get Sayid killed.

edit: I recall a theory somewhere about a candidate having to stab them to kill them. Guess if Sayid stabbed MiB with the dagger now he would die. Richard apparently was brought to the island by Jacob as a candidate of some sort.

[Draegan]

So who noticed that during the episode before it went to commercial that the cut screen didn't say "Lost" it was just a blank screen?

[Draegan]

Also, I just read that the Captain of the Black Rock was named Hanso who's great grand son (or however many greats) was none other than the Hanso that started the Dharma Initiative.  Apparently he had bought the Captains journal or something.

[HaemishM]

I'm getting a very Shadows/Vorlon from Babylon 5 feeling from the Jacob/MiB conflict. I like that.

[Bokonon]

Heh, Big Lebowski thug got to reprise his toilet dunking scene ;)

I like the theory that I heard that Jacob/MiB are both jerks, but MiB is worse. Or that Jacob is the stereotypical brutal asshole prison guard.

[tazelbain]

My only issue is how the Island has become a back drop.  All the interesting questions about the island don't seem to matter any more.  The Island is just setting for Jacob and Smokey's slap fight.

If Smokey restrained(metaphysically) Jacob while Ben killed him then Sayid and Richard's attempts were doomed because they didn't have help to restrain their target.  Smokey could never restrain and kill Jacob before because Jacob could always retreat to his statue.  Smokey didn't send Richard to kill Jacob, but to get Richard into Jacob's employ.  That way, Smokey could have an opportunity to trick Richard into giving Smokey and Ben an invite to the statue sometime later.

[Samwise]

Saw a theory on the internets that the statue represents the Egyptian god Sobek.

Sobek's ambiguous nature led some Egyptians to believe that he was a repairer of evil that had been done, rather than a force for good in itself, for example, going to Duat to restore damage done to the dead as a result of their form of death. He was also said to call on suitable gods and goddesses required for protecting people in situation, effectively having a more distant role, nudging things along, rather than taking an active part.

Sound like anyone we know?

[Soln]

all I know is Hurley once again saves the day.  Awwww yeah 

[Vaiti]

The statue is of Taweret. But I wouldn't doubt that Jacob is Sobek or something like that. What with Eqyptian references already all over the place.

[Samwise]

Was it confirmed in the show itself that the statue is of Tawaret?  It seems like that's the dominant theory based on the glimpses we've seen, but they don't actually look that different.

(edit) Okay, Abrams confirmed it in Wired.

[Vaiti]

Not sure if it was explicitly confirmed in the show. Producers did confirm it a couple times outside it.
Sobek also apparently has ties to Tawaret in Egyptian mythology.

[Teleku]

Random thoughts.  So if the island is the cork to keep back evil, almost sounds like it the island is basically the gate to hell (or something like it).  That could tie in with the hatch and the energy that it was covering.  When they bored into it, they inadvertently cracked the the seal over the evil/whatever.  The nuke did something, and then they needed to keep hitting the buttons to maintain the seal.  Thats why the world would end if they ever stopped hitting the buttons.  It'd open the gates to hell/whatever.

Of course thats very similar to the plot of the Wheel of Time, so.... 

[Evil Elvis]

I think this episode just reaffirms that the flash sideways are the ending, or better put, the character resolutions after whatever happens in the finale to cause history to change.  The island being sunk at the season premier is symbolic of the cork being pushed all the way in.

My only issue is how the Island has become a back drop.  All the interesting questions about the island don't seem to matter any more.

Yes.  It's annoying to watch - time and time again - people who were supposed to have so many secrets end up not knowing shit.  It's past the point of just showing how they're pawns to the endgame.  143 years, and Richard hasn't divined out one damn nugget of information worth telling?  I don't know if they're just being tight-lipped because they think it might ruin the ending or what, but they need to start making with the answers post haste.

[Jeff Kelly]

It's basically about faith vs. reason

You don't need to know the answers if you have faith, you want all the answers if you lean to reason.

People like real Locke, Ben, Richard and others never questioned Jacob because they had faith. Richard even thinks he is in Hell and knows a being that has granted him immortality so he doesn't need much to be faithful. Locke could walk again after crashing on the island so he didn't need much to be faithful.

Season six is essentially a giant crisis of faith for every one. Richard, Ben and others are frustrated because they sacrificed so much for their faith but never gotten any gratitude for it never got redeemed and never got to an end of their service for Jacob. Ben even sacrificed his daughter for Jacobs cause (something God did not let Abraham do)

They never needed answers because they had faith but now that their faith is waning they want them and are frustrated that they never got any.

The followers of reason have their own crisis of faith with people like Jack realizing that more of their lives were influenced by some sort of demigod and not by their own decisions than they'd like. The man in black is capitalizing on that by drawing those people closer to him.

The flash sideways in my opinion show some sort of "afterlife" with each life being better or worse depending on the person being more on the good or evil side of the equation as the end approaches.

I don't even think that Jacob is there to keep the man in black from escaping but that the balance of good and evil on the island is necessary to keep the energy contained.

If they were inspired by ancient mythology they would have acknowledged that for most of them good and evil needed to be in balance that either one couldn't exist without the other.

[Tebonas]

Its Vorlons vs Shadows, the Island Edition.

[HaemishM]

Season six is essentially a giant crisis of faith for every one. Richard, Ben and others are frustrated because they sacrificed so much for their faith but never gotten any gratitude for it never got redeemed and never got to an end of their service for Jacob. Ben even sacrificed his daughter for Jacobs cause (something God did not let Abraham do)

Actually, I think Ben sacrificed all he did in the name of Jacob, but since he never saw Jacob, he was actually working for the Man in Black the whole time. Jacob has been gone from the cabin for a long time, IIRC, since before the plane crashed.

[Draegan]

Probably NSFW.

[tazelbain]

Ya, the Others seemed committed to a cause that they knew nothing about.  It's an gaping big plot hole given the extreme actions that the Others committed.

[Evil Elvis]

Season six is essentially a giant crisis of faith for every one. Richard, Ben and others are frustrated because they sacrificed so much for their faith but never gotten any gratitude for it never got redeemed and never got to an end of their service for Jacob. Ben even sacrificed his daughter for Jacobs cause (something God did not let Abraham do)

Actually, I think Ben sacrificed all he did in the name of Jacob, but since he never saw Jacob, he was actually working for the Man in Black the whole time. Jacob has been gone from the cabin for a long time, IIRC, since before the plane crashed.

Ben said he never talked to Jacob, and Richard should have known Jacob was at the statue, not the cabin.  None of that make sense to me yet, and I'm not sure they really have an explanation for it.

However, MiB has definitely been playing Ben for a looooong time.  He was probably the one appearing as Ben's mother when he was a boy.  He's behind the losties being sent back in time so Sayid would shank him.  He's probably the reason why Ben got cancer.  He let Roussaue live, so Ben would adopt Alex.  He kept Michael from killing himself, helping bring Keamy to the island to off his daughter.

[HaemishM]

I think anytime we've seen a dead person on the island, it's been the Man in Black. Jacob seems to have no problem appearing as himself. Which leads one to ask if the visions Hurley saw of Dead Charlie were the Man in Black or Jacob, or something else entirely? He seems able to see dead people anywhere.

[Vaiti]

I think any dead people Hurley sees are actual dead people. Every other dead person the other people on the island have seen are likely the MiB. Last episode makes me think that. Unless it's really convoluted. Seemed to me that when Richard was talking with his dead wife through Hurley, the MiB was on his way to answer Richard, but got cockblocked due to Hurley and Richards dead wife.

[Paelos]

The show is completely stalling at this point. I think they are showing all this alternate life crap because at some point the people will have to decide which life they really want. Locke gets off the island, and they get the alternate universe. Locke stays on the island and they have to guard him for all time.

[HaemishM]

Locke saying that all the people whose names are on the cave wall must leave reminds me of Farraday's mom saying that all the people who left must return. There's a balance to be maintained.

[Arthur_Parker]

Interesting that MIB's instructions for killing Jacob are the same as Dogan's instructions for killing the MIB. 

I thought it was interesting that the MIB said something about Jacob stealing his body.  I wonder if there's a chance that Jacob and MIB switched sides at one point.

[Soln]

I did like Whidmore's speech to Flocke, describing all the things he could be.

[Draegan]

Phenomenal episode tonight.

[Abagadro]

Indeed.

They should have had this be the Desmond show for the last two seasons.

[Teleku]

Agreed on both accounts.  This was a great episode, but all Desmond episodes are great.

[Jeff Kelly]

What strikes me as odd is that Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof are quite lucky when it comes to casting guest roles. Michael Emerson (Ben), Henry Ian Cusick (Desmond), the guy playing Eko, Elizabeth Mitchell (Juliet), Jeremy Davies (Daniel Faraday).

If only they were as lucky with the main cast.

[Draegan]

I hate Faraday's character.  I hate how he talks.  It's so purposefully dramatic it irritates me.

(in a low and deep voice)  No (pause) I don't want to set off a nuke (serious look and pause) Desmond.

It's like he's channeling Shatner.

[Teleku]

Well, I always got the impression he talked the way he did before because his brain had been fried in an experiment.  He kept forgetting tons of things.

[HaemishM]

Yeah, I always thought the Farraday thing was a character thing, not an actor thing, but I haven't seen him in much else.

Love the Desmond episode, but I've always loved that character anyway.

So if Eloise doesn't want Desmond to remember, and she was working with Ben Linus, who was mistakenly working for the Smoke Monster (though he thought he worked for Jacob), does that mean the sideways timeline is in fact the result of the Smoke Monster's machinations? That he not only needed to kill Jacob, but also destroy the island prison in order to escape?

[Draegan]

I just think Eloise knows whats going on in both timelines.  That's the impression I got.

[raydeen]

I just think Eloise knows whats going on in both timelines.  That's the impression I got.

That's what I took away from it. Eloise in the other reality seemed to know more about what was going on than anyone else (Jacob and MiB aside). Being that she's the one at the Lamp Post she may have a handle on both (or all) possible realities.