Lost [FINALE SPOILERS PAGE 25 ONWARDS]

[Samwise]

I thought Who was on first?

[Soln]

ya great stuff.  Need now the list of all names that were on the wheel.  Internet plz deliver....

[Samwise]

Hawking and Widmore would be the two names to look for, methinks.

[Hawkbit]

I missed a couple things in that episode.  Jacob asked Hurley to turn the lighthouse mirror to 108 (heh, like the hatch 108 minutes and the sum of 4,8,15,16,23,42) but did we actually see what 108 was?  I thought Jack stopped it around 120 or so.  I likely missed an important piece.  

What's the 160 reference from?  I feel like I need a :plane flies over head: emote.

[Mrbloodworth]

What's the 160 reference from?  I feel like I need a :plane flies over head: emote.

Me being confused, I was asking whos name was on the mark jacob sent them to turn the mirror to.

[Furiously]

Didn't he say it was a him? My guess is Desmond.

[Ozzu]

Didn't he say it was a him? My guess is Desmond.

Oooh. I bet that's who it is. Nice.

[Evil Elvis]

Reports are that it names someone new.

[Paelos]

Fucking...awesome. 

[Draegan]

Another terrible episode that really didn't do much to advance the story at all.  They are splitting up into a story for all the characters while progressing the plot and hour or two.

This is like one of the later Jordan novels that spend all it's time jerking around and you really don't give a shit going on but you you're hoping for an epic last chapter.

I bet Kate start tugging her hair next episode.

[MournelitheCalix]

Lost reminds me of the Ravenloft campaign setting. 


Darklord ....check.
Darklord with fantastic powers.....check.
Land is the prison of the darklord......check.
Whispers in the shadows..... check.


My useless analysis for what its worth.  In any case, my guess was proven wrong already.  I thought they were in purgatory.  I can't wait to see how this ends.

[Paelos]

Another terrible episode that really didn't do much to advance the story at all.  They are splitting up into a story for all the characters while progressing the plot and hour or two.

This is like one of the later Jordan novels that spend all it's time jerking around and you really don't give a shit going on but you you're hoping for an epic last chapter.

I bet Kate start tugging her hair next episode.

Wow you really missed the point of this episode. Nothing happened in the story? They iced the whole temple!
 
Kate wandering about the town in alternate universe, that's nothing happening.

Not to mention that I still don't think that UnLocke's side is evil yet. They are really really setting the stage for Jacob being the evil force on the island. Notice that when confronted by Sayid, Drogan (if that's the Japanese leader's name) says that the machine is for checking the scales. They test good and evil, and here's the key... he says, "Yours came up on the wrong side."

He never says, you were evil. He just says it's the wrong side. Sayid then tries to justify that he's not evil, and gets attacked. I'll go even further with the point. Drogan only pulls off of him when he thinks back to something remotely decent in his life, and intimates that Jacob offers a hard line deal to get to the island. Nothing Jacob is doing so far is for the greater good. Nothing the smoke monster has done beyond smashing the ridiculous followers of Jacob, who answer no questions and kill for reasons beyond our pitiful understanding, has been evil. In fact, he's giving second chances out to most folks like they are candy, unless you side with Jacob.

[Draegan]

Wow you really missed the point of this episode. Nothing happened in the story? They iced the whole temple!
 
Kate wandering about the town in alternate universe, that's nothing happening.

Not to mention that I still don't think that UnLocke's side is evil yet. They are really really setting the stage for Jacob being the evil force on the island. Notice that when confronted by Sayid, Drogan (if that's the Japanese leader's name) says that the machine is for checking the scales. They test good and evil, and here's the key... he says, "Yours came up on the wrong side."

He never says, you were evil. He just says it's the wrong side. Sayid then tries to justify that he's not evil, and gets attacked.

The temple is gone?  The one we knew about for 4-5 episodes?  Oh I know we knew about it as some mysterious thing that no one knew what is what.  Great.  But I didn't have any connection with it.

I didn't see Kate wandering anywhere in this episode.  Where was she?

The whole good/evil thing is getting a little thin.  It's not progressing at all.  it's just more hints and gesturing.  Nothing is being resolved.  Though I don't expect it to until the end, so still nothing happened.

Still a bad episode.  They are focusing too much on a single character and not them all as a group.  I thought it was bad when they kept going back and forth with the '70s people and the rescued people in the other seasons.  This is just irritating.

It's that part of the book when your main group of character split up and have to go through a bunch of boring chapters to get back to the good part.  Just like Robert Jordan.

[Evil Elvis]

Another terrible episode that really didn't do much to advance the story at all.  They are splitting up into a story for all the characters while progressing the plot and hour or two.

This is like one of the later Jordan novels that spend all it's time jerking around and you really don't give a shit going on but you you're hoping for an epic last chapter.

I bet Kate start tugging her hair next episode.

Wow you really missed the point of this episode. Nothing happened in the story? They iced the whole temple!
 
Kate wandering about the town in alternate universe, that's nothing happening.

Not to mention that I still don't think that UnLocke's side is evil yet. They are really really setting the stage for Jacob being the evil force on the island. Notice that when confronted by Sayid, Drogan (if that's the Japanese leader's name) says that the machine is for checking the scales. They test good and evil, and here's the key... he says, "Yours came up on the wrong side."

He never says, you were evil. He just says it's the wrong side. Sayid then tries to justify that he's not evil, and gets attacked. I'll go even further with the point. Drogan only pulls off of him when he thinks back to something remotely decent in his life, and intimates that Jacob offers a hard line deal to get to the island. Nothing Jacob is doing so far is for the greater good. Nothing the smoke monster has done beyond smashing the ridiculous followers of Jacob, who answer no questions and kill for reasons beyond our pitiful understanding, has been evil. In fact, he's giving second chances out to most folks like they are candy, unless you side with Jacob.

Dogen specifically says Fake Locke is pure evil.

Fake Locke can't kill Sayid, because he's a candidate.  It's got nothing to do with having a good nature.  The kid in the woods from a few eps ago was even saying how he can't just kill Sawyer.  He has to follow the rules (or he forfeits his prize of being able to return home if he wins?).

He's manipulated events just as much as Jacob has, all as a means to satisfy his own agenda.

I doubt they're setting him up to be the good guy.   If anything, they're just blurring the lines.  It's a game, and they're both playing to win.

[Samwise]

In the alternate timeline, Dogen's son is alive.  Does that mean that Jacob engineered the accident that killed Dogen's son in the first place?

[Abagadro]

I thought it rocked. Lots of good action, a cool martial arts fight, some good one liners from Miles, and it's always fun seeing Keamy get wiped out.

[Quinton]

Perfectly good episode. I'm content!

[Draegan]

Dogen specifically says Fake Locke is pure evil.

Everyone says their enemy is pure evil; it doesn't mean he actually is.

[Lucas]

Well, let me just say:

Catch a falling star an’ put it in your pocket,
Never let it fade away...
Catch a falling star an’ put it in your pocket,
Save it for a rainy day...

Fantastic, chilling episode.

[HaemishM]

Great fucking episode. As for evil/not-evil Locke, I'm thinking he is the dark side of the equation. They aren't necessarily saying that he's evil (Dogan's comment aside) but that he's selfish. It isn't old school Mephistopheles evil, it's "I want what I want and fuck everyone else" evil. He wants off the island, but the Vanzetti equation, the keyboard at the computer, the giant electromagnetic thingie, I think it all points to the island being crucial to the universe. There has to be the balance between Jacob and Anti-Locke or whoever takes their place and if one or both are removed from the equation, shit starts to break down.

The sideways timeline is proving that all of these people are destined to come together somehow, some way. Sayeed's brother showing up in Jack's hospital, Ben Linus showing up at Locke's school, Keemo dealing with Sayeed and Jin, Jack and Dogan meeting up, Hurley and Locke meeting up, etc. Whatever cosmic force brings them to the island brings them together when the island is underwater.

[Samwise]

So I'm rewatching it now on Hulu, and something is bugging me.  

Why did Dogan send Sayid out to meet Locke with a dagger in his hand?  

Locke said it was because Dogan wanted him to kill Sayid, but I think Dogan knew that wouldn't happen -- he sent Sayid after Claire suggested that he send someone Locke wouldn't kill, i.e. a candidate.  Did Dogan actually think Sayid would be able to kill Locke, the same way that Ben was able to kill Jacob?  I don't get the impression he'd make a mistake like that.

Maybe Sayid can only kill Locke after he's been recruited (i.e. Ben could only kill Jacob because Ben had been "recruited" by Jacob)?  And Sayid will end up redeeming himself by realizing this and killing Locke at a critical moment?

Maybe it'll make more sense once I get to the scene where Dogan is explaining things to Sayid.

[Soln]

so next week it's Ben's flash sidewise episode.  Who is left to profile before we can get on with it?

Ben
Jin/Song
Hurley
Sawyer

last episodes to go:

7    110    "Dr. Linus"
8    111    "Recon"
9    112    "Ab Aeterno"  (“from the beginning of time”)
10    113    "The Package"
11    114    "Happily Ever After"
12    115    "Everybody Loves Hugo"
13    116    "The Last Recruit"

[Lucas]

"Aeb Aeterno" should be THE Episode, since it's going to deal with

[Samwise]

Betcha "Recon" is about Sawyer.   

[Paelos]

So I'm rewatching it now on Hulu, and something is bugging me.  

Why did Dogan send Sayid out to meet Locke with a dagger in his hand?  

Locke said it was because Dogan wanted him to kill Sayid, but I think Dogan knew that wouldn't happen -- he sent Sayid after Claire suggested that he send someone Locke wouldn't kill, i.e. a candidate.  Did Dogan actually think Sayid would be able to kill Locke, the same way that Ben was able to kill Jacob?  I don't get the impression he'd make a mistake like that.

Maybe Sayid can only kill Locke after he's been recruited (i.e. Ben could only kill Jacob because Ben had been "recruited" by Jacob)?  And Sayid will end up redeeming himself by realizing this and killing Locke at a critical moment?

Maybe it'll make more sense once I get to the scene where Dogan is explaining things to Sayid.

Because Dogan and his ilk are the evil on the island, or another evil on the island and there is no good. Jacob and all of his people are seriously into telling everyone lies in order to get what they need all the time for the "greater good." Of course Dogan knew it wouldn't work. That's why he told him to jam it into his chest before he even had the chance to talk. He was hoping BlackLocke would wipe out one of his own before he could turn, since he finally found his moral compass and let Sayid go. He still felt tied to his duty in the temple, but he couldn't pull the trigger himself.

Everything I know about Jacob makes him look like a giant manipulative dick. Do we have a lot of examples where Jacob has actually helped anyone when it wasn't directly associated with fucking them into a rock and a hard place later? Here's my guess on what he's up to. He's manipulating and looking hard for the right candidate because he's waiting around to steal their soul and body to feed his "godhood" for the next 1000 years. They aren't there to replace him at all.

The more and more it unfolds, I expect the Jacob camp to be the writers shot at organized religion and their duplicity.

[Samwise]

Of course Dogan knew it wouldn't work. That's why he told him to jam it into his chest before he even had the chance to talk. He was hoping BlackLocke would wipe out one of his own before he could turn, since he finally found his moral compass and let Sayid go.

That's the story Locke told, but I still don't buy it, specifically because of what Claire said about Dogan sending someone Locke wouldn't kill.  At which point Dogan turned to Sayid as being the obvious choice for that job.  And he didn't look at all surprised that Sayid came back alive.  I don't think he expected either of them to die at that meeting, which means he had some other agenda.

Re: Jacob and religion, remember "GOD LOVES YOU AS HE LOVED JACOB" from Ben's brainwashing film?  I'm hoping that will make sense at some point.

[Evil Elvis]

Dogan saw the baseball drop right before he killed Sayid, and remembered his promise to Jacob.  Killing the candidates is against the rules, even if he thinks its for the best.  Getting someone else to kill a candidate is just a loophole.

But I'm not sure he thought Flock would kill him.  He didn't just hand him any old knife, he was keeping one special.  Jacob probably gave it to him, and told Dogan to use it when he had the chance.

I also got the impression that Dogan knew he would die on the island; part of his bargain with Jacob.

[Paelos]

Of course Dogan knew it wouldn't work. That's why he told him to jam it into his chest before he even had the chance to talk. He was hoping BlackLocke would wipe out one of his own before he could turn, since he finally found his moral compass and let Sayid go.

That's the story Locke told, but I still don't buy it, specifically because of what Claire said about Dogan sending someone Locke wouldn't kill.  At which point Dogan turned to Sayid as being the obvious choice for that job.  And he didn't look at all surprised that Sayid came back alive.  I don't think he expected either of them to die at that meeting, which means he had some other agenda.

Re: Jacob and religion, remember "GOD LOVES YOU AS HE LOVED JACOB" from Ben's brainwashing film?  I'm hoping that will make sense at some point.

The only agenda possible from that line of logic is leading the people out of the temple to follow nonLocke in order to save them. That's assuming you know in advance Sayid comes back and warns the people before he destroys the temple. And after all that Drogan still ends up dead. I'm not buying into Jacob as anything but wrong. The whole white and black imagery. Tossing the white stone into the ocean and calling it an inside joke. Nothing that Jacob says is real. He will lie and use more people than anybody.

[Quinton]

Dogan did say: "He will come to you as someone you know.  Someone who has died.  As soon as you see him, plunge this deep into his chest.  If you allow him to speak, it is already too late."

Sayid encounters unlocke:  "Hello Sayid."  *stab*  "Now why'd you go and do that?"

Not, mind you, that I entirely trust Dogan.

[Mrbloodworth]

Just going to leave that here.

[Lucas]

*backs away slowly*
 

[Tebonas]

Thats Batmanuel, and he was awesome!

[Samwise]

Oh man, I totally forgot that was the same guy.

[Lucas]

Just a word of warning: in the next couple of days, the Lost crew will start filming the Series Finale (yep, that's it).

Obviously, spoilers will start coming through, albeit slowly, but eventually more and more stuff will start to leak. If you don't want to be spoiled, be extremely careful from now on when surfing forums, blogs, even youtube videos. People are always ready to ruin teh fun, especially in this case, with the anticipation growing and all that.

[Teleku]

I use to follow some of the other lost pages to catch up on easter egg's, hints, and theories I missed, but now I've stopped for the last season.  This thread is the only Lost related thing I view on the internet.  So don't fuck it up, OR THERE WILL BE BLOOD.

As to the Jacob = Evil thing, I'm not seeing it Paelos.  That would be the most fucked up "good" side in history if MIB was suppose to be good.  He's killed shitloads of people now.  He went to a man who's tried desperately to atone for his past and said, "Hey, you want to see your loved one again?  I need to to go murder some fucking people and fuck your morals and soul searching.  DO IT."  Which seems to have taken their toll on him mentally (the end of this last episode seems to show that Dogan's statement that once the darkness reached his heart, Sayid would be totally gone, has come true).  As smoke monster (if he was truly the only "smoke monster" on the island at least), he's been knocking off random people, and trying to kill others, since the beginning of the show.

Also, remember that Richard Alpert seems terrified of him, and he has some weird deep connection with the island that goes beyond all this.  Also, Flocke grabbed the white stone from the scale and threw it into the ocean after Jacob died (though that could easily be mis-direction if your theory is true).  Then there's also the fact that the others working for Jacob were concerned about finding the "good" people amongst the survivors and recruiting them.  These including children who are innocent.

No, I think Flocke is bad, and Jacob is good, but lines are a bit blurred.  Flocke is Lawful Evil.  Charismatic evil.  Manipulative evil.  He wants what he wants and will manipulate his way to get it, and will happily betray everybody as need be.  Jacob is the same way but good.  He needs a "good" replacement for the island.  It has to be specific, and he needs to manipulate events out of need to get that person, which fucks up lives, but it needs to be done.  He is sympathetic, but there is no help for it.  They are both manipulative gods playing chess against each other with Mortals as the pawns, but to achieve different ends.  In a way this sort of makes them both bastards, but overall once is working for a good cause while the other isn't.

Also, everybody, you guys did notice that both Dogan and hippy dude where killed and left in the magical fountain of life that cures all wounds and apparently death sometimes, right?  I wouldn't count them out of this yet, or that things aren't going according to plan.  Dogan did very specifically give him that dagger.  Maybe the fact that he was stabbed with it did something to him that will make him be defeated later on somehow.