Chronicles of Spellborn - [RELEASED...kinda]

[peryn]

If anybody was interested in this but was put off by the slow download speeds, it's fixed. Their torrent client does a steady 1700 KB/s for me now where it was terribly slow before.

Yea. And if your download speeds start dropping and don't go back up try restarting the downloader. It will resume where it left off, and for me also maxed my connection out after it fell to 20 kB/s

Anyone care to get me up to date on the PvP ruleset(s)?

I'm not quite there yet. There are PvP and Normal servers, and on the PvP servers I've been told it is FFA PvP once you leave the starting area. One can join the 2-3 different "houses" which are different factions within the game, and I believe this provides some protection? I could be completely wrong as I'm just going off what other players have told me.

I didn't say you looked TERRIBLE.  I was just wondering if it's hard to swing your cricket bat with your GIANT HANDS.

it's giant hands AND giants feet. Characters are possibly the worst looking part of Spellborn and what definitely made me nauseous yesterday.

LOL. It's true, the game has hideous character models. They were going for a comical look; if you pick a burly character he will look something like Brock Samson, and if you opt for the skinniest choice you'll look like a twig. It's an unusual decision and makes it hard to take your character seriously.

I'll try to force me to play again, after a fair dose of antiemethic, and I'll check out the points Peryn made. But there's something toxic about this game.
The clunkyness for starters. The bad performances especially when coupled with imaginative but overall poor visuals, and the general feedback of combat and UI.
Can you spell "not satisfying"? Ryzom flows strong in Spellborn blood. Just without the originality of that one.

This is exactly what most people are going to feel when they first pick up the game. It will definitely take some willpower to try and get past some of the clunkyness which you and I both mentioned. This game needs polish more than anything.

The comparison to Ryzom in terms of overall theme is a strong, and unfortunate one. I agree that it doesn't quite have the originality of Ryzom, but that game was just way too out-there for me.

Edit: Updated Impressions

There are two important game play mechanics that I missed. There are two levels of advancement in the game: traditional xp gained through combat and questing, and then another system called PeP (personal experience points). You gain PeP the same way you do as the normal XP, but PeP levels improve your overall combat state, which is composed of Physique, which improves movement speed, Morale which improves damage output, and Concentration which improves how fast you hit in combat, which probably means it rotates the skill bar quicker.

These three combat states can be debuffed by an enemy, or improved mid combat with the use of abilities. Now every time you gain a PeP level, each of these three states are improved by 10%, 10%, and 5% respectively, although I don't know if that modifier is linear or exponential. The reason for separating PeP levels from regular character levels (called Fame Ranks) is that you lose PeP points when you die, and can lose PeP levels as well. So if you die a lot, you will not be as effective. Conversely, if you don't die very often you will be somewhat more effective, although the difference might be negligible.

Edit: PeP levels cap at 5. I've gained 1 pep level after gaining 6 Fame Levels. You lose 1 PeP level every time you die. The total bonus at PeP level 5 is +30% movement speed, +30% damage output, and +15% combat speed.

The way items and gear works is my favorite part of the game after I understood how it works. Essentially, all gear provides no bonuses whatsoever, including weapons, and is purely cosmetic. Where itemization comes into effect is through the process of acquiring sigils, which are stat bonuses that you apply to your gear. This method seems to make the game less gear-centric than many other games, and allows you to fine-tune the look of your character. You could essentially have one set of gear throughout the game, and add sigils to improve them as you go, unless sigils cannot be removed. But after 6 levels gained, I haven't found a single one yet.

[mutantmagnet]

You'll start getting Sigils and body slot items around level 10.

[Lantyssa]

The equipment customization is the main point I've liked about Spellborn, at least from the sidelines.  Letting me make the character look like I want it is a huge plus.  Finding a cool looking item with useless stats is always frustrating.

[FatuousTwat]

Still waiting to get into beta or whatever it is. Bleh.

[Stormwaltz]

CoS developers realize MMORPG players have no idea how to play their game, decide to add tutorial.

Words fail me. 

[schild]

CoS developers realize MMORPG players have no idea how to play their game, decide to add tutorial.

Words fail me. 

Most MMORPG devs probably have that moment.

[Nebu]

If I can't macro combat in your game it's not an MMO. 

[Mrbloodworth]

If I can't macro combat in your game it's not an MMO. 

I prefer games without macros.

Is this like some throw back to MUDS where watching text scroll on your screen was "fun"?

Other than that, that article talks about things i have brought up before, in fact i think it contributed to the dislike of AOC or other games that do combat (or any system really) different.

People assume they will play {insert New game name here that's not a Wow Clone in some regard} in a way similar to how they played through their previous romp.

Its a hell of a thing to overcome.

[Nebu]

I was going to use green text, but Schild would hurt me.

[Mrbloodworth]

Oh, see, as you can tell, i need the green. 

[raydeen]

http://www.tcos.com/uploads/news/tutorial/w_to_walk.jpg

I think I just found my new sig line.

Man, these tutorials are HARD!

[Sunbury]

I still remember early days of DAOC outside of Albion main city in the newbie zone.

There were many zone wide announcements of 'player XXX killed by YYY'.

I always wondered as mob YYY was typically non-aggro and low level,  was the player AFK / Disconnected or being played by a 4 year old?

[Xurtan]

*shrug* I can't say that's too unusual. It reminds me of the literal hundreds of people that died to the Priest of Discord, or trying to talk to their guildmasters in EverQuest.

[raydeen]

*shrug* I can't say that's too unusual. It reminds me of the literal hundreds of people that died to the Priest of Discord, or trying to talk to their guildmasters in EverQuest.

I can sort of relate to the EQ stuff. Every once in a while I'd forget to hit ENTER and then inadvertantly hit A when talking to an NPC. The one real bonehead maneuver I pulled multiple times in one day was practicing my new spells (to get the magic skills up) and constantly getting smacked down by one of the trainers in the magician room. I, uh, didn't immediately grasp the concept of AoE. I kept thinking 'Why the hell does he keep killing me??!!' Figured it out on like the 5th time. It was 1999. I was a n00b.

[patience]

CoS developers realize MMORPG players have no idea how to play their game, decide to add tutorial.

Words fail me. 

This is a weird post to resurrect this this thread. The devs have always known certain types of MMO players (meaning those who never touched an FPS) for a full year. They had a tutorial explaining the basics and redesigned the beginning quests so players could ease themselves into combat.


Words fail you because you never followed the game.

THose bears they were talking about were hard, until someone in beta made a video showing you just hold down your mouse button without dodging can win you the fight. This required you ensuring all skills in the vertical column would never be on their cooldown and you used an attack with lifetap to heal with every attack but he made all the complaints about bears too hard laughable.

For the devs to make things even easier than this just shows how badly conditioned certain MMO players are that they need even more hand holding.

If words have to fail you it should be in awe of the player base and not the devs who had to recode their tutorial for the third time now. (that picture raydeen posted just emphasizes how bad the playerbase is)

[Zzulo]

Are you saying that it is the players fault for not understanding how to work the game properly? Are you saying that the players are to blame and not the designers?  Help me understand how you think.

[Rake]

This Bicycle is a piece of shit I'm taking it right back to the shop.

If I stop pedaling it falls over, bah the instructions never told me that would happen. I blame the designers.





Is there no fun to be had in figuring shit out for yourselves these days?

[Xerapis]

That has to be the stupidest analogy ever.

My bike came with training wheels. And then we took the training wheels off when I was comfortable, and my dad taught me how to ride it. You know, the usual hold on to the back of the seat running behind me to keep it level way.

The game should do the same fucking thing in the beginning.

[Rake]

My big brother loosened the nuts off on my training wheels so they weren't actually doing anything at all.

I was riding the bike around for ages until he told me, then I promptly fell off.


Now I can eat my dinner on a bicycle without anything jammed under the frame or pedals, just down to practice and figuring how to do stuff. (Oh and not sitting in front of a computer all my life 

[patience]

Are you saying that it is the players fault for not understanding how to work the game properly? Are you saying that the players are to blame and not the designers?  Help me understand how you think.

In this case it certainly in this case the players' fault. The initial tutorial was blocks of text that gave you hints as you went along. It was detailed but understandably not ideal.

They looked over the initial quest lines and redesigned the initial quests entirely by adding a new area for players to train in and integrated the instructions right into the quest texts and cut it up so you did things in piecemeal order.

I see it as condescending that their third rewrite now has to include big bold messages like "use W to walk forward" but if by some chance some of these players appreciate that level of hand holding then whatever *throws up hands*.

Someone could say past MMOs have a hand to play in conditioning people to have certain expectations for an MMO. I get that to a point. What makes a genre what it is are the core mechanics. But MMO0's core mechanics are not based on the control schemes but the persistent state of the world/character and the level of interaction with multiple people.

No one should criticize the Spellborn devs without having seen how instructional the original tutorials were to begin with. They were careful in pacing things so, as you gained levels, you would learn about various aspects of the game throughout your characters' leveling career.

Criticism should be directed at them for other things they definitly screwed up like the European launch.

[March]

Yet the bears’ difficulty also scared people off as the game quickly became a death-by-bear simulation.

Just might make me try the game...

A little self-reflection and self-deprecation when gameplay reality collides with the VISION (tm) might just siphon a little bit of suck from the game to make it fun.

Not that I don't think there's a niche to be carved from the massive WoW market for a death-by-bear Sim.

[Nebu]

I like games that have parts not everyone can do.  They are funnels that differentiate between good players and average players.  It would be wonderful if there were more games out there that rewarded ability rather than time. 

[Tairnyn]

I like games that have parts not everyone can do.  They are funnels that differentiate between good players and average players.  It would be wonderful if there were more games out there that rewarded ability rather than time. 

I think the real challenge is rewarding a wide range of skills while being forgiving of shortcomings in some of them. The example that comes to mind is a girl in my WoW guild who can not, for the life of her, make the jump on the Thaddius fight in Naxxramas. For those unfamiliar with the fight everyone basically has to time a small jump from one platform to another otherwise you fall into the slime below and have to run around to the front of the room and try again. She literally missed the entire fight last night because she fell into the slime about 8 times. She's a great person who knows how to play her class and is fun to have around, but just happens to suck at one thing that precludes her from helping.

Given the level of easy mode that WoW represents I imagine that some would be turned off by skill-based achievement path, especially when key tasks are much easier for others. Besides, I find most of my "skills" in a game are a function of my time spent attuning myself to the repetition of the AI or game mechanics as opposed to some aptitude. So once again it boils down to a matter of time invested.

[Stormwaltz]

Patience: My opinion, worth what you paid for it, is that MMORPGs are played by MMORPG players. Sounds obvious, but think a moment - those most likely to play an MMORPG are those who've played previous MMORPGs. Few games (read: none but WoW) have significantly grown the market by drawing in people who weren't already inclined to try MMORPGs. Those who haven't played MMGs in the past probably won't start with a relatively low-profile title like Spellborn.

Starting with the logical assumption that the lion's share of the audience will expect MMORPGs to play a certain way, you should make damned sure that even the mostbuffoonish player understands that your MMG doesn't play anything like the others they've played.

As a lousy example, let's say you build a Matrix-style gun-fu FPS in which the attacks and evades require you to tap keys in time with a techno music score. In other words, Battlefield 1942 with Rock Band's controls. Could you reasonably expect a long-time FPS fan (who may not be a rhythm game fan) to jump in and "get it" immediately?

[Mrbloodworth]

Starting with the logical assumption that the lion's share of the audience will expect MMORPGs to play a certain way, you should make damned sure that even the mostbuffoonish player understands that your MMG doesn't play anything like the others they've played.

Honestly, i think this is part of the problem with MMOs. This assumption right here. Some games will simply not play the same way. AOC does not play like WoW, and i think it was part of the games problem with acceptance (From the combat, to how many mobs you can slaughter at a time, to item stats). To many people expect it to, but it didn't, and it invalidated most of your foreknowledge.

Creating a tutorial that not only shows you the mechanical requirements (push button) to shedding light on WHY some things are they way they are (Item stats, or lack there of) is a hard thing to make, you have to have them unlearn assumptions, or preconceived notions.

Its like trying to explain to a Photoshop user how to use The Gimp. They do the same things, but differently, for different reasons. Most will simply say "This sucks" and boot up Photoshop.

It one of the things that have stagnated the genre, i think, And why games that stray to far have a hard time. (beyond bugs and incompleteness  )

[Stormwaltz]

NECRO'D

The Spellborn devs have gone bankrupt.

Dave Perry rubs hands, gleefully plans massive bastardization monetization of TCOS.

[Ard]

Is it really all that surprising that no one is willing to actually pay money to play this game, even though it was already on a fake subscription model?  This is really one of those "haven't thought their cunning plan all the way through" type moments.  I'm not entirely certain why they think that this game will even manage to survive on a full f2p model.

[Zzulo]

Not really suprising though, right?

Who thought this game would do really well?

[patience]

I used to have high hopes for it until the beta process where they took it down for year to redo internal developing.

They had good ideas and even implemented some of them well so this could live on as f2p. I'm curious to see how Frogster is going to handle things because I doubt I will touch the Acclaim version.

[Triforcer]

Already?  Wow.  I guess whether you have subs or microtrans, a shitty game is a shitty game. 

[schild]

I used to have high hopes for it until the beta process where they took it down for year to redo internal developing.

I used to have high hopes for it until

patience

patience

[PalmTrees]

The free newbie experience wasn't good enough to me to warrant a sub (just too many boring errand boy quests), but I did like it well enough that as a f2p I'll probably give it another try when I run into a gaming dry patch.

[DLRiley]

I said this game should be free2play back in page 1. If not in this thread but too a fanboy on vent around that time. Boy good to be right as usual.

[Zzulo]

So, whatever happened to this game? Is it still going? Is it fading? I can't tell. I haven't heard a thing about it anywhere on the internet post launch.

Anyone?

[Shatter]

I thought I got an email a couple months ago saying this game was free to play or something