Game of Thrones [SPOILERS]

[Threash]

The Greatjon is being played by Little John from the old BBC Robin of Sherwood  

[Hoax]

I've felt that the show has been improving steadily for the past 3 episodes. I'd agree with the fact that many scenes have been less grand than they might have warranted but nobody even puts half as much effort into tv as HBO so its hard to complain too much. I think its reasonable to imagine that they will pour a bit more cash into the second season.

As someone who has not read the books at all ever I've had no real trouble following anything. At first there were a bit too many people but the show has not let any faces fall completely off my radar then suddenly had them come important which takes talent when storyboarding no doubt.

I have my minor I didn't get this complaints and questions:
- Why do the northern guys in King's landing die like bitches every fight. Like the two guys who died in 1/10th of a second to thrown spears who were supposed to be his "two best swords". I've inferred that the Lion's troops are far superior and its hard to imagine Robb winning his fight without some kind of act of god, I've been hoping for the eldest Barathian to show up leading his army at just the right time and hopefully die in the process because he's just a name to me at this point. Then again the Mountain and his raiders should be around too and they also have the hill clan guys so even if he does show it feels like Robb is proper fucked.

-Its very fucking odd how whacked out of her mind the Queen of the Veil is. Was she always like that? I mean the old hand of the king John was supposed to be such a stand up guy, everyone loved him, salt of the earth blah blah but his wife is a fucking nutjob? While her sister is this awesome strong smart woman? Most confusing bit of the show so far. Honestly everything about her kingdom has been very odd and off putting but there has been no signal from the other cast members to let me know if this is just the way it is or if things are out of the ordinary.

-The John Snow bits truly are stretching the show too thin. At this point its like I get that he's going to be a big deal and have his little band of trusted friends and do something great at some point but I'd really like to focus on everyone else until winter shows up and I have no choice.

Those are my minor troubles but overall the show has been fantastic especially since Robert went down everything has been building and picking up steam nicely. I felt it when Ned gets owned in the throne room, even if I should have known it was coming it still hurt. So bravo to HBO yet again.

[lamaros]

Lysa (of the Vale) has a history. It'll probably come out at some point. But what might not: Her husband was OLD and wasn't very good at getting her children. The one she has is sickly and hard fought. Again there is history, but it'll probably be touched on in time. She is not a queen btw, she is just in charge because her son is the lord of the vale now that her husband is dead. The vale bits are much longer in the books, explaining their politics and geography and significance with more detail. It is well cut out in the show though, as it's not a huge deal at this point.

I believe there were a few references in the tv show about how lysa had 'changed', and catelyn's shock on seeing her again was, I thought (with the benefit of the books), telegraphed well. There is a bit of recklessness when if comes to family in both women though, as cat's actions with tyrion showed; they are not hugely dissimilar. I also find that Catelyn Stark is much less of a crazy bitch in the show than the books, which I think is good. I don't really believe in GRRMs women as much as the men but I am finding her a deeper and more interesting person here. Score one for the actress and the writers ;)

Shit gets real with the bits of the story that are currently slower real soon, don't worry.

The Northmen fight well enough, but when you're in the shit position you die, no matter who you are, unless those attacking don't want you dead.

Tried to keep any spoilers out of there.

[Threash]

Yeah the northmen in King's landing are either ambushed like in the throne room or heavily outnumbered.  Jamies men killed those two guys before they even took out their swords, spears are ranged weapons after all.  Ned didn't bring an army with him, just a small retainer.  Also, he gave half of it to the city watch to help keep the peace and another good number to Beric Dondarrion to go hunt down the Mountain and his men.

[Hoax]

Actually on thinking about it more you are right the imp did tell her she had changed since Cat saw her last. I guess I forgot about that and whenever it goes back to her I'm left in headscratch mode.

As to the northerners I appreciate all that but I guess I'm sort of complaining about how quickly they seem to die in King's Landing at every chance they get. Also the Lannister troops have way cooler outfits so by that rule they must be more badass right?

[Threash]

They die quickly because Ned has a knack for putting them in unwinnable situations.

[Tebonas]

I'm waiting for the first time they aren't outnumbered and ambushed to gauge their real strength. Right now they look like chumps that lose in everything but a straight fight.  Which would fit soldiers trained and maintained by people like Eddard "What do you mean people can cheat" Stark.

[Teleku]

They die quickly because Ned has a knack for putting them in unwinnable situations.

Yeah, this.  Though I've noticed in the show that you pretty much just see them dying instantly without much fight.  I would have appreciated them showing a little bit more of a drawn out struggle in the corridors, and taking some people with them.  But I can understand for editing and time constraints why the just showed a few quick shots of them dying to get the point across about what happened.

[Threash]

They even went over this in the books, at one point Arya is worried about her dad and one of random Stark soldier tells her not to worry because each one of them is worth two lannister men.  Later on while she escaping she finds that guys body surrounded by dead Stark men and almost no dead Lannisters, i believe she kicks him.

[Bunk]

Also the Lannister troops have way cooler outfits so by that rule they must be more badass right?

Or are backed by a house with a heck of a lot more money.

[Hoax]

There could be a poor but badass northern look instead it looks like they are wearing tunics made out of that stuff movers use to line elevators so they don't get banged up.

Brown ones no less, they look like low level mmo npc's.

[Tebonas]

Fitting, since they die like that, too.

[Rasix]

Starks are stark. This is known.

[Speedy Cerviche]

Didn't read the books but the story so far kind of reminds me of Dune. You have this corrupt court full of mostly unlikeable people and factions (House Stark's bearing very similar to House Atreides, including the trap set up at King's Landing/Dune), and you have some interesting stuff going on but meanwhile you have this jihad of fremen (kal's mongol horde + dragon clan) building up about to be unleashed to purge it all (with a bonus spitroasting with the frost demon horde from the other end).

[Teleku]

Well the other stuff is a bit of stretch I think, but I did always feel that the setup between House Stark and Lannister, with Starks having to relocate down south to enemy territory, did channel Dune quite a bit.

[Threash]

The Stark/Lannister conflict is based loosely on the War of the Roses, it wouldn't surprise me if that was also the case for Dune.

[Ruvaldt]

Even that is a stretch for me.  The Harkonnens lured House Atreides onto Arakis with the promise of power and money, but in Game of Thrones that doesn't happen at all.  The Lannisters don't want the Starks coming south, they just deal with them when Robert, a Baratheon, insists on it. Ned is just summoned south to be the Hand of the King; an inglorious job with status, but little else besides and he is never promised much.  Robert's offer was honest, it just got in the way of the plans of the Lannisters.  

There were rifts between the Lannister and Stark houses before the events of Game of Thrones, but it wasn't exactly a blood feud; they just happened to be on different sides during a large portion of the civil war a few years prior, and a lot of houses are in that same situation.  They didn't like one another, but they didn't go out of their way to destroy one another either.  It was Robert, not the Lannisters, that brought the Starks down to King's Landing.  

I've read both of the series and never thought they bared much of a resemblance to one another other than being good fantasy, which occasionally used a few of the same conventions, just as most good fantasy does.  The Stark position in King's Landing is similar to the Atreides' in the sense that they are fish out of water in a strange land, but honestly I think they are probably closer to the Clampetts arriving in Beverly Hills, if only Beverly Hills was run by sadists with basements filled with dragons' skulls.

[Teleku]

I just meant it in a very broad sense.  Good house is called down south against its will (they weren't lured to Arakis in Dune, they were commanded by the emperor, and the Atreides new they were walking into an ambush), gets totally fucked over by court intrigue from rival house.  
Basic structure of the story is similar, that's all.


Anyways, I figured it might be nice for people who haven't read the books to have a copy of the maps from the books to glance at.  Most of these places will mean nothing, but they've mentioned several of the other houses and cities in the series so far.





And here is a political map if you want to get an idea of what the kingdoms look like, what the house symbol is, and who's where (the Orange colored area around kings landing is the crowns lands, so that's why you count 8 instead of 7 kingdoms):

[Ruvaldt]

I just meant it in a very broad sense.  Good house is called down south against its will (they weren't lured to Arakis in Dune, they were commanded by the emperor, and the Atreides new they were walking into an ambush), gets totally fucked over by court intrigue from rival house.  

Yeah, but the Emperor was in on the trap, wasn't he?  I recall them being ordered to go to Arakis by the emperor, but it was a scheme cooked up between House Harkonnen and House Corino because the emperor was afraid of Leto's growing power.  Or maybe I'm imagining that having read it so long ago.  You're right that the Atreides knew that some kind of trap was in the works, I forgot about that. 

[Wasted]

And here is a political map if you want to get an idea of what the kingdoms look like, what the house symbol is, and who's where (the Orange colored area around kings landing is the crowns lands, so that's why you count 8 instead of 7 kingdoms):

I count 9 there, are the Iron Islands meant to be included?

[Threash]

The iron islands used to own the river lands before the Targaryen conquest, but they resisted too much while the river lords bent the knee so they got split off.  Neither the riverlands nor kings landing were part of the original seven kingdoms.

[Obo]

I only just noticed this now, but if you mirror and flip the South, it's Ireland! (with a few bits tacked on).

[Threash]

I'm pretty sure the Freys are Stark bannermen but that map shows the Twins as part of the river lands.

[Khaldun]

I thought the Freys were simply Stark allies because they're bannermen to House Tully, but that they've always been dodgy and prone to calculating the odds and looking out for #1. Also there's a zillion of them because Walder Frey keeps changing wives and making lots of babies.

[murdoc]

I'm pretty sure the Freys are Stark bannermen but that map shows the Twins as part of the river lands.

They're bannermen for Riverrun

[Tale]

So they get a better writer for the episode and the episode is better. Who'd have thought?

Exactly. The other night, I tried catching up on episodes 5-7 with my girlfriend, who found the early episodes sleep-inducing but was determined to take an interest. Episode 5 lost her again, so I ended up watching 6 and 7 on my own. I just watched episode 8 on my own, and felt she would have loved episode 8.

Until the end of episode 7, it was all backstory and opening moves.

[Lucas]

NO SPOILERS

Interview with Sophie Turner (Sansa):

http://www.tvguide.com/News/Game-Thrones-Sophie-Turner-1034079.aspx

[KallDrexx]

Side question.

If I'm bored after 100 pages of the first book, is it worth pressing on or will I be bored for the whole 750 pages?

[Rendakor]

It's worth it. Book 1 is slow to start, since it has a lot of characters, places, histories, etc. to introduce.

[Rasix]

Side question.

If I'm bored after 100 pages of the first book, is it worth pressing on or will I be bored for the whole 750 pages?

I was bored initially.  It picks up.

[Lucas]

Yeah, I understand you want to have fun now while reading it, but yeah, in retrospect, the first book is really just one big and kinda slow introduction, 'til shit hits the fan in the last few chapters (hey, guess what, kinda like the TV show! :P). From book 2 the REAL fun begins (after another kinda slow intro, but just the first few chapters) 

[Merusk]

Side question.

If I'm bored after 100 pages of the first book, is it worth pressing on or will I be bored for the whole 750 pages?

I just started reading the first book again and *I'm* bored.  I think the only reason I slogged through the first few chapters on the first read was everyone else kept going gaga about the series.  It does get a lot better but up until they leave Winterfell it's pretty dire.   Then it's just slow.. then it's "wait, what.. who.. what happened there.. FUCK.."

[Riggswolfe]

I ordered the 4 book boxed set. I'm hoping to enjoy it but my big worry is that I read he introduces more characters later. I have visions of how Robert Jordan introduced so many characters in WoT that it dragged that series down because he stopped focusing on his core group. We'll see...

[Draegan]

I ordered the 4 book boxed set. I'm hoping to enjoy it but my big worry is that I read he introduces more characters later. I have visions of how Robert Jordan introduced so many characters in WoT that it dragged that series down because he stopped focusing on his core group. We'll see...

Book spoilers

[WayAbvPar]

Book 4 introduces a bunch of new POVs, the lion's share about which almost no one gives a shit. It is kind of a grind to read through some of them (doing it now for the 2nd time).