Game of Thrones [SPOILERS]

[Teleku]

she's basically a scooby doo villain in an r rated adaptation of scooby doo

And this one probably had a better villain.

[Threash]

no it isn't, because she thinks it's all masterstrokes of scheming and gaming

The worst part is the show treats it like it is. Same way they treat Sansa being a complete moron as if she's now a master game player.

[Cyrrex]

The only real masters have been Littlefinger and Varys.  The former being dead, that leaves Varys.  It is not beyond reason to think there is still a twist where he is concerned.  I kinda doubt there is time for it, and he is a bit too far in the backgound for that to feel plausible with only 4 episodes remaining.  But still.

Problem with twists and turns at this stage is we have a built in MacGuffin sitting creepily in the wings at all times.  Bran.  How can there be any major twists beyond this point that he does not credibly know about and inform people of?

[Polysorbate80]

Same way he didn’t know about Rhagar and Lyanna.  He claims to be the world’s memory, but that’s only because he theoretically CAN see everything, not that he actually HAS.

[schild]

The only real masters have been Littlefinger and Varys.  The former being dead, that leaves Varys.  It is not beyond reason to think there is still a twist where he is concerned.  I kinda doubt there is time for it, and he is a bit too far in the backgound for that to feel plausible with only 4 episodes remaining.  But still.

Problem with twists and turns at this stage is we have a built in MacGuffin sitting creepily in the wings at all times.  Bran.  How can there be any major twists beyond this point that he does not credibly know about and inform people of?

Bran is less of a question mark than whatever the fuck Melisandre fucked with

[Cyrrex]

Bran only sees what he tries to see, sure....but surely he would be looking specifically at people like Dany and Jon, like a lot.  But best not to peer to closely at what Bran can, cannot, should and should not do.  Way too easy to poke huge holes in it.

What about Melisandre?  Am I missing something?  I know she said she would be back in Westeros at some point, I just assumed it was a meaningless Goodbye statement.

[Teleku]

I think he means the Red God.  Some sort of magical being that brought Jon back to life to fight the walkers, keeps bringing Beric back and lighting his sword on fire, and is the last big mystery we have left in the series.

The TV series may chicken out and not try to address it, but what ever the fuck the Red God is, is the potential game changer for everything, and she's it's conduit in the TV show.  There is obviously a being of extreme power out there guiding things, that we don't know exactly what it wants.  Since I'm sure I'm only going to get a half assed "The Children of the Forest made them" as my origin story for the white walkers in the TV series, going to be really bummed if they don't reveal something about the Red God.  For all we know, its just an enemy of the White Walkers, and next week they'll defeat them, only to find that opened the door for the Red/Fire walkers lead by the Red God to be unleashed upon the world.

[eldaec]

I've always assumed the 'gods' of ice and fire are either the same thing, or they are being brought into the world by the same thing.

I'd bet nether the book nor show will ever tell us what they are, but at least the book and probably show will end when main characters work out what will make them fuck off.

Then bran gets to rebuild his wall.

[Teleku]

It’s really late here and I’m going to bed, but GRRM said in previous interviews that the next book would talk all about what was up beyond the north farther than anybody has gone before, and how that is the big mystery of the series.  Mind you he can’t seem to remember how to write anymore and is possibly full of shit, but it seems he at least feels that the origins of the white walker and fire rivalry magic whatever bullshit is important and wants to talk about it.  Which is why the TV series is is probably my only chance to get any closure on that.

Anyhow, going to bed, next episode to start right as I’m going to work in the morning.  I’m calling Ed as being the first named characater to take an ice spear to the knee, so to speak.   

[MahrinSkel]

I've thought all along that what was on the page (or the screen) was shadows on the wall of a conflict between Gods, on a timescale where the Doom of Valyria is a recent event. All of the "gods" are expressions/faces of these forces in projections humans can understand, and at the same time actual things in and of themselves.

Because the story is told on a human scale, the actual conflict seems like a human one, but the real battle is so vast it looks like geography or climate.

--Dave

[Threash]

Well that was a whole lot of bullshit.

[Chimpy]

I think that was probably the most expensive single episode of television to produce in history. Since it was like 100% special efffects shots.

Three episodes to go.

[Speedy Cerviche]

I think that was probably the most expensive single episode of television to produce in history. Since it was like 100% special efffects shots.

Three episodes to go.

I dunno, they were probably able to keep costs down significantly by using pitch black lighting.

[Threash]

I think that was probably the most expensive single episode of television to produce in history. Since it was like 100% special efffects shots.

Three episodes to go.

Yeah, I'm sure they poured their hearts and souls into filming a battle we couldn't see.

[Riggswolfe]

I'm shocked Grey Worm survived. They kept showing scenes where I was like "ok, this is when he dies". Specifically when the Unsullied were covering the retreat.

[Threash]

I'm shocked Grey Worm survived. They kept showing scenes where I was like "ok, this is when he dies". Specifically when the Unsullied were covering the retreat.

The second half of the episode were scenes like this for everyone that was fighting. Sam went down at least five times, and every time they focued on Brienne Jamie Pod or Tormund they were completely overwhelmed by zombies.

[HaemishM]

I thought it was fantastic. Some of the best TV I've seen, if for no other reason than sheer scale and "rule of cool" visuals.

Arya being the one to kill the Night King was something I didn't expect, but should have. Fan service it may be, it still had me cheering.

[Riggswolfe]

I'm shocked Grey Worm survived. They kept showing scenes where I was like "ok, this is when he dies". Specifically when the Unsullied were covering the retreat.

The second half of the episode were scenes like this for everyone that was fighting. Sam went down at least five times, and every time they focued on Brienne Jamie Pod or Tormund they were completely overwhelmed by zombies.

Yes, but as we talked about during our predictions, Grey Worm had the tropiest conversation possible before a big battle. Maybe they were just screwing with us.

I thought it was fantastic. Some of the best TV I've seen, if for no other reason than sheer scale and "rule of cool" visuals.

Arya being the one to kill the Night King was something I didn't expect, but should have. Fan service it may be, it still had me cheering.

I did like the payoff of the knife drop move from her Season 7 spar with Brienne. I just hope the fight with Cersei doesn't feel anticlimactic after this.

[Brolan]

In the After the Thrones segment it was interesting.  They were explaining how they picked Arya to kill the Night King, and not Jon or someone else.  I had assumed who killed the Night King was in GRRMs notes.  If something that basic hasn't been decided by GRRM then the books (if they are ever finished) are going to be totally different from the show.

[Wasted]

It was pretty good, the scene near the end with the slow music and desperate fighting as the Night King confidently strolls to Bran was earned and mostly perfect.

The start of the battle was equal parts frustrating and good, the Dothraki going out like bitches was bad, the Unsullied not making proper shield walls was bad, the rest was mostly good.  Obvious things where obvious, don't hide in a crypt when you fight the dead.

I wouldn't have picked Arya before the start of the episode but they quickly laid it on thick that she was the one.  The emotionless stares between Bran and the Night King managed to tell so much, then the cocked head as The Night King ponders what last gambit Bran has and boom she attacks was perfectly done.

But...

The dead should have marched on to King's Landing.  We go from prophesied end of the world to now just again mundane human vs human bullshit?  This is scouring of the shire levels of unwanted conclusions.

[Setanta]

Was that Wun Wun that killed Lady Mormont?

Pretty awesome episode although the weight of numbers against the survivors really made me think that they should have been toast.

Theon's arc and redemption were completed nicely.

[pants]

I'm feeling a bit meh - but one thing I did love was the walk the Night King did when he fell off his dragon, and Jon was running after him. The actor nailed it - absolute saunter through the piles of corpses around him, la de da, life is wonderful. Whoever the actor was for that scene, he nailed it.

[Khaldun]

I get why some people didn't like the visuals--if you had a monitor that wasn't able to handle black/dark well, you were proper fucked. I don't think it was perfectly done in technical terms, but the goal was sound--to give you a sense of a battle that was total chaos and terror against an uncanny supernatural enemy--it wasn't just zombies, it was Death, Darkness, Winter Everlasting. At times that worked pretty well. It also of course amplified the sense of "who is actually still alive in all this?" tension throughout.

In the end the crypts also weren't so bad a place to be--it's pretty damn clear than everywhere else was even less safe, and it was only a relative handful of intact corpses causing trouble down there.

I could have done without the completely stupid waste of the Dothraki. "Sure, you few thousand cavalry guys charge out there into the darkness against an unseen horde of zombies, that'll help a lot, except oh yeah you'll just get raised as dead and swell the ranks of our enemies." If you're fighting someone who can make your dead into his army, you don't *have* cannon fodder. I would have preferred to just see the Dothraki stay close so that when the dust settled, Dany had small groups of everyone of her allies left, just much reduced. Getting the Dothraki entirely off the board has a creepy underlying feeling to it--it's removing one of the complicated, interesting problems she was having to think about last season, which is what was she going to do with a horde of nomadic horsemen in a feudal kingdom based around agriculture?

I don't mind the way it ended. I wouldn't have minded Cersei having to pay a price of some kind for withholding her aid against the Dead but maybe that will still happen in some way or another. Winter isn't going to go away magically even if the NK is a bunch of ice fragments now. And the Wall is still breached, which may still have consequences.

[Speedy Cerviche]

In the After the Thrones segment it was interesting.  They were explaining how they picked Arya to kill the Night King, and not Jon or someone else.  I had assumed who killed the Night King was in GRRMs notes.  If something that basic hasn't been decided by GRRM then the books (if they are ever finished) are going to be totally different from the show.

I get the feeling GRRM gave the TV people very little in the way of notes, probably not much beyond a few key plot points (Jon's father, the ending - but vaguely). It doesn't seem like he even talks to them much anymore since the TV series passed the books whereas before he used to be around doing screenplays for episodes.

[Tale]

Re the alleged darkness - I just watched it on an LG OLED with the screen set to "standard" (default) and it was absolutely fine. It's set in a blizzard; it's not going to be bright.

Enjoyed the episode. Not sure what happens now except:

CERSEI: Yahhh all your friends are dead and I have the Golden Company. Kneel before your queen.
ALLIES: Actually, you're fucked. We still have at least one dragon.
[Faramir marries Eowyn]
[Aragorn marries Arwen]
[Ice melts]
~ENDS~

[Polysorbate80]

I’m glad I added surround sound to the basement bar, we had to go down there to watch.  I only buy good quality TVs but there was too much ambient light in the living room to see detail.  With room light controlled it looked fine.

[Threash]

Re the alleged darkness - I just watched it on an LG OLED with the screen set to "standard" (default) and it was absolutely fine. It's set in a blizzard; it's not going to be bright.

Enjoyed the episode. Not sure what happens now except:

CERSEI: Yahhh all your friends are dead and I have the Golden Company. Kneel before your queen.
ALLIES: Actually, you're fucked. We still have at least one dragon.
[Faramir marries Eowyn]
[Aragorn marries Arwen]
[Ice melts]
~ENDS~

Bronn did hurt Drogon with one single ballista, massed fire might be significantly more effective.

[Samwise]

I called that it'd be Arya when they were having the "if it bleeds, we can kill it" conversation in the war room.   

[Teleku]

I called that it'd be Arya when they were having the "if it bleeds, we can kill it" conversation in the war room.   

Anyhow, going to bed, next episode to start right as I’m going to work in the morning.  I’m calling Ed as being the first named characater to take an ice spear to the knee, so to speak.   

And I'm pretty proud of that.  :p

Just saw it with friends.  It was a big fun mess, but not overall happy with how it turned out.  The White Walkers and magical impending doom while petty kings squabble over land is central to the plot.  Since the entire TV series has concentrated on dynastic disputes because Martin can't write anymore, it makes sense they'd just finish that entire thing off with one episode and get back to people playing games of thrones.  But now we just have dumb ass Cersei with her magically handed to her army and zero scheming skill coming out on top again.  If Euron doesn't shank her and he's the big bad at the end they fight, going to be sad.

Red women just deciding to die felt lazy.  Arya killing the Nights King by doing a flying leap through the darkness Hollywood dagger stab felt lazy (she's a shape shifting assassin.  You can't have her come out of nowhere being one of the white walkers, or Bran, or even Theon or something?).  Ending the entire undead plot in one episode felt lazy.  Bleh. 

Again, it was fun and I'll keep on watching, but with much less care.  Literally there is nothing about the books left they will answer to me, as I don't give a shit who takes the Iron Throne. 

[jgsugden]

Sooooooo ... if they clear the keep and move all their troops south, but leave Bran by the Weirwood and Arya hiding in the tree to ambush the Night King....

[MediumHigh]

Well HBO writers. You have two choices for the final villain of your series.

A. villain built up for 7 seasons, who is the leader of a supernatural race of necromancers that threaten to end the world thousands of years ago.
B. a woman that slowly poisoned her husband, raised 3 idiot children, and fucked her brother and cousin.

HBO Writers: Obviously it's going to be B.

[Ruvaldt]

Lazy is how I would put it as well.  And safe.  Very safe.  No one of any importance died and no one did anything that was unexpected.

The Night King just wasn't an interesting villain.  After seven+ seasons you'd think we'd know more about him or his motivations beyond just wanting to kill everyone.  His death was unsatisfying not just because of the ease with which it occurred, but because he's gone and we didn't know much about him to begin with.  He was just another paper-thin plot device that got in line and died on cue to make a character look like a badass.

I enjoyed the episode as spectacle, but that's it.

[HaemishM]

I'm almost positive the Night King was never meant by either Martin or the showrunners to be the end all be all evil. He was an elemental force sweeping in from the North that makes the humans either band together or get fucked. In divine terms, he was the test from the Gods to see who was worthy to survive - the ones who put aside their petty squabbles to fight the greater threat, or the vindictive bitches who thought of it as just another way to rid her of her enemies?  Book White Walkers/Night King was always a background to the conflicts of the human characters - as Teleku said in Discord, the Night King has even been seen in any of the 5 books, he's only been mentioned in fables and old wives' tales.

There was never going to be more about the Night King. Fuck's sake, we got almost 90 minutes of very expensive battle scenes and dragon fights and zombie hordes. I thought there were some truly amazing visuals in there that you just wouldn't have expected to see on TV just five years ago (Dothraki charge, lighting the trenches, the wave of bodies washing over the Unsullied). It's only that things like the Red Wedding really set the bar so high that this might feel a disappointment.

Also, get over it. Martin ain't never finishing this fucking series. We get 10-20 years worth of Internet Nerd Theorycrafting about how the books would be so much better but the truth is that fat bitch ain't finishing those books before his death. And based on the last two books, we should probably be happy for it.

[Teleku]

I enjoyed the episode as spectacle, but that's it.

Yep.  :(

Like, who gives a fuck who wins the throne at this point.  All the actual smart and interesting people trying are dead.

[Riggswolfe]

Overall I enjoyed the episode with two caveats:

1) The darkness and editing made it hard sometimes to tell who was fighting, let alone if anyone was about to die.

2) I quite liked Arya getting her moment but what happened to Azor Ahai and all that? That has been a thread running through the show (and books) from the beginning and at the end, it came to nothing. Even if Jon is the "Prince that was promised" as many think, at the end of the day he just hid from Viserion while Arya did the actual deed.