Game of Thrones [SPOILERS]

[Teleku]

Yeah, if the Walkers do take Kings Landing, I'm expecting some dramatic scene of him shattering it.

[calapine]

If Brienne and Tormund don’t at least hook up before death I will be a very grumpy old man.

I went between "shame they made a comic relief character" and "d'awww his earnest clapping is so cute".

[Rendakor]

If Brienne and Tormund were going to hook up, I think this was the episode for them to have done it. I'd honestly be surprised if more than one of Jaime/Brienne/Tormund survives the battle of Winterfell.

[Teleku]

Yeah, I put Tormund pretty high on the deadpool.

[Teleku]

Also, just noticed that the guy who directed the Battle of The Bastards will be directing next episode.   

Also directing episode 5.  I guess we know which episodes will have all the deaths.

[Polysorbate80]

If Brienne and Tormund were going to hook up, I think this was the episode for them to have done it. I'd honestly be surprised if more than one of Jaime/Brienne/Tormund survives the battle of Winterfell.

I get what you’re saying but it’s still the one goofy thing I didn’t know I wanted from GoT

My own theory is actually Brienne lives, but has to make a choice that causes the death of Jaime or and or Tormund (both if they’re paricularly cruel to her character.  And has to live with that choice.

[IainC]

Dead People Ep 3:
Grey Worm
Theon
Gendry

Cersei killed by: Arya while Jaime and The Hound shiv up The Mountain.

Throne sat on by: Jon but Daenerys is dead by that time.

[Teleku]

They can't kill Gendry, he needs to be the last one left with Royal Blood to claim the throne after everybody else dies!

[Cyrrex]

1. Grey Worm.  And he better go out heroically, as my fantasy team depends on it.
2. Beric.  He is a 3rd tier character anyway.  But also see above.  He better kill dozens of walkers and light up that sword at least once.
3. Theon.  As said by someone else, seems likely he will die saving Bran from the NK or something.  Redemption complete.

Better not be Tormund.  I think he will die in King's Landing saving Brienne or something.

Jaime will kill Cersei.  It is simultaneously the worst thing that could happen to her, the best thing he could do AND it would make him the motherfucking QUEENSLAYER.  And Arya is going to wreck the Mountain, probably heroically saving the Hound in the process, because that would be fucking awesome and also close that circle in a satisfactory way.

Nobody will sit on the Iron Throne.  Either Jon or Dany (depending on which of them lives) will stand in front of it with Drogon, and while appearing to contemplate taking a seat, will instead utter a quiet "Dracarys" instead, and Drogon will melt it into slag.  Roll credits.

[Wasted]

My predictions pulled from my ass.

After a costly battle at Winterfell the Dead head south.  Dany follows, the dead take Kings Landing (the Golden Company or Euron takes any money and flees) and Cersei is holed up in the palace.  Dany flies in with friends, Cleganbowl happens, Tyrion kills Cersai, Dany gets burned by Wildfire, crawls to the throne to die whilst the dragons go crazy.

Jon heads north with Bran, some lore-jumbo will happen and Jon will sacrifice himself by replacing the Night King somehow and be doomed to a cold eternal rule of the dead, but his control of the dead will end the war.  Zombie Jon destroys the iron throne, makes a new one out a dragon skull or something more symbolic than I can think of and appoints probably Sansa Queen.  As he leaves he warns them to do a better job this time than the last, if he has to come south again the dead will follow.

Bran becomes a tree thing.

[Spiff]

- Grey Worm is obviously worm food.
- Theon should seppuku if they don't give him a heroic 'self-sacrificial' death.
- Tormund obviously is never getting with Brienne, going out trying to save her is all that's left (kinda hoping it's in vain and she gets it anyway).

Who I really hope doesn't make it, but probably will:
- Bran, he fingered little-finger, spilled the beans about Jon; really no point in keeping him around. He's not even a character anymore really, he's a crystal ball with wheels and I really hope they don't keep milking the all-seeing-eye bit.
- Tyrion; honestly he should have died escaping the Red keep after killing Tywin (: greatest character in the entire show and the only one that was worthy of sitting on the Iron Throne).
I wish he'd get a ridiculously pointless death as well, to wrap up his pointless arc; like he stumbles on the stairs on the way to the crypt or something, chokes on his wine when headless Ned rises.

Not related to any deaths really, but I do hope Dany backstabs the bally lot of em and ditches halfway through the battle (after seeing the unsullied get massacred or losing another dragon), I'm going to be mightily disappointed if there's not even a little backstabbing/deserting in the battle for Winterfell.

[Teleku]

Backstabbing doesn't make any sense though.  Like, literally everybody there acknowledges they are all probably about to die and came anyways.  Nobody can back stab and cut a deal with the night king, and fleeing from Winterfell into the blizzard is a worse idea than hiding in it.

[Cyrrex]

I don't think there is any of that kind of backstabbing coming either, at least not for the coming battle....unless of course Bronn shows up and decides to kill a Lannister or two.  Which, while we are at it, I do not think he will do.  Bronn likes his gold, but it has always felt like they are trying to show his true heart of gold just like they have with Jaime.  Or I could be wrong and that is one of the shockers to be revealed.

Any figurative backstabbing at this point might be more likely to come from Sansa.  They have put her out there as one of the few still truly playing the Game, and the scene with her and Dany did nothing to remove that notion.  And so conveniently, the horns sound before one or two more sentences could have resolved the matter one way or the other.  Either Dany agrees and disolves the 7 Kingdoms (which I think she will, see my prediction about Drogon melting the Iron Throne), or Sansa is going to do something.  Arya might help her.  As would a number of Northmen.

[eldaec]

My assumption is that next week is about showing beyond doubt you can't win by conventional means - but maybe identifying how they can win, and also killing some dudes.

I'm interested in what they do with Bran. It doesn't seem practical for him to survive, but equally seems odd to not have him involved in the real final showdown. Him in the godswood might be more than a scenic choice - maybe he escapes into the weirnet - maybe what we've seen so far isn't all that is meant by him 'flying'.

Backstabbing at this point would just be irritating and undermine the central point that swords can't beat global-warming allegories. End of next week they need the main dudes to all accept that military power is irrelevant.

I can definitely imagine the throne being literally destroyed. Dany can't rule shit - it is her tragedy and has been beaten to death for 7 years. TV Dany even had a vision of a destroyed throne room in winter (but not book Dany). I'm not even sure the post Night king settlement is going to get explained on TV. But if I were to make a guess about it, it would be that people in the books don't incessantly refer to 'Bran the Builder' for no reason.

[Phildo]

Arya takes the throne and raises her son, a Baratheon heir, to be the next king.

[HaemishM]

Upcoming Battle of Winterfell deaths:

1) Grey Wurm - as everyone said, he had the tropiest tropey foreshadowing that ever troped.
2) Theon - 100% chance he dies protecting Bran then comes back as a zombie right quick, because he has a face for zombie
3) Both the Mormonts - they have nowhere else to go
4) Brienne - dies saving her true love Jamie and tells him with her dying breath - the tropiest death
5) Gendry dies trying to fight off the zombies in the crypt because yeah, that shit has been made too obvious
6) At least one of the dragons dies
7) Whether in Winterfell or after, Jon and Dany will die fighting each other, hopefully each from their own dragon - maybe Jon's riding the zombie dragon

Sansa and Tyrion end up sharing the power of a North-South union kingdom each with equal power and Queen of the North and King of the South.

[Polysorbate80]

You know, just because he gave the "cop about to retire" speech doesn't mean they can't fuck with that by killing Missandei instead.

[Cyrrex]

This feels like the right place to point out that Missandei is stupid hot and she cannot be allowed to die as a result.

[Chimpy]

This feels like the right place to point out that Missandei is stupid hot and she cannot be allowed to die as a result.

It means she will die in the most horrible fashion, dude.

[Teleku]

Anybody else bugged by the half assed "lol, white people hate black people" thing they've forced on with Grey Worm and Missandi?  It just seems like a waste of time, and also doesn't make sense given we have zero historical context about race relations in Westroes.  They are trying to slap modern sensibilities and race issues of earth into a medieval fantasy world with zero context, I guess to be edgy?

[HaemishM]

I think you may be reading more into that than there is. It's just as easy to say that the Northerners look on anyone connected to either the Southerners or people from outside the continent of Westeros, and their skin tone would only be a little part of that.

[Chimpy]

The Us vs Them stuff is all the fuck over the place in this story. It has little to do with skin tone and a lot more to do with “they are from the other side of the hill/river/lake/bog/sea”.

[Teleku]

They've made it a big deal for them specifically, with people staring at them (and obviously because they are different looking), and Grey Worm saying "we have no place here".  Here not just being the north, since they serve a queen who is going to rule over all the lands.  I mean, maybe I am reading too much into it, but they've been showing that they specifically are being hated on because of how they look, and how uncomfortable that makes Missandi.  Took that to mean a racial thing.

[Riggswolfe]

They've made it a big deal for them specifically, with people staring at them (and obviously because they are different looking), and Grey Worm saying "we have no place here".  Here not just being the north, since they serve a queen who is going to rule over all the lands.  I mean, maybe I am reading too much into it, but they've been showing that they specifically are being hated on because of how they look, and how uncomfortable that makes Missandi.  Took that to mean a racial thing.

A) They are invaders from another land
B) The Northerners just aren't super welcoming to outsiders lately what with years of war with the rest of the continent.

I didn't get a racial thing from it at all. I got more of a "You aren't from around here are you?" vibe. As a white person I've gotten that same look in some small towns in my own state.

[Abagadro]

They've made it a big deal for them specifically, with people staring at them (and obviously because they are different looking), and Grey Worm saying "we have no place here".  Here not just being the north, since they serve a queen who is going to rule over all the lands.  I mean, maybe I am reading too much into it, but they've been showing that they specifically are being hated on because of how they look, and how uncomfortable that makes Missandi.  Took that to mean a racial thing.

I just think it is a narrative short-cut because it is so obvious with those two. It's lazy, and I can see what you are getting at, but I think they have to establish quite a bit in not a lot of screen time left.

[Polysorbate80]

Yet more stupid can’t-sleep wishes:  Euron captures Melisandre (or she lets him) —she has a task to perform before she dies, right?  Lord of light sets her on fire (she’s got it coming) and chars his hands (since there’s no Victarion in the series).  No reason for it or to be that complicated but a nice nod to things left out.

Oh and he’s another little brother to Balon and Iron islanders tie in nicely with the drowning reference in the prophecy, although I think they left that part out of the show?  But as liable to murder her anyway just because.

Goddamit brain go to sleep.

[eldaec]

They've made it a big deal for them specifically, with people staring at them (and obviously because they are different looking), and Grey Worm saying "we have no place here".  Here not just being the north, since they serve a queen who is going to rule over all the lands.  I mean, maybe I am reading too much into it, but they've been showing that they specifically are being hated on because of how they look, and how uncomfortable that makes Missandi.  Took that to mean a racial thing.

Suspect the TV writers are dodging it being specifically racism because it is almost impossible to do that justice in a weird context like this, but sure, this is no different to Mereen - and no different to all the worrying about the idea of a Khalasar in the 7 kingdoms early on. Dany and her army fit in nowhere. Nor does Jon by the way.

We aren't getting a repeat of Mereen because there is no time, but hypothetically if Dany won the throne, it would go have to go down the same way. I guess Dany and Jon realise this eventually.

[Cyrrex]

No need to overthink any of it.  Only Northmen fit in in the North, that has been clear from the beginning.  A castrated, dark-skinned warrior from another continent and an exotic beauty from Naath just stand out even more.  Northmen are just casual bigots, move along, nothing to see here.  Everyone else in this world is too, just maybe not quite to the same extreme.

[Teleku]

They've made it a big deal for them specifically, with people staring at them (and obviously because they are different looking), and Grey Worm saying "we have no place here".  Here not just being the north, since they serve a queen who is going to rule over all the lands.  I mean, maybe I am reading too much into it, but they've been showing that they specifically are being hated on because of how they look, and how uncomfortable that makes Missandi.  Took that to mean a racial thing.

I just think it is a narrative short-cut because it is so obvious with those two. It's lazy, and I can see what you are getting at, but I think they have to establish quite a bit in not a lot of screen time left.

Fair enough, that's probably more it.  It seemed really weird to be trying to force in, so they probably are just doing something else badly.  Though doing a quick google now, I am by far not the only person who thinks all the children in Winterfell are racists.   

[calapine]

Tee Hee.

But seriously, Tyrion murders his own father. F13: "Meh"
Tyrion chockes Shae to death like medieval Patrick Bateman. F13: "We love you Tyrion!"

Everything Cersei ever did, from the start of the show, was in self defense of her and her own.

If Robert is allowed to start a war that killed endless amount of innocents just because someone stole his bride - and remember, Lyanna loved Rhaegar, it wasnt an abduction - then Cersei having to endure him for 17(!) years and then doing what...give him just a bit stronger wine and he ends up killing himself, is literally nothing.

And Danaerys: She was "I will rule and destroy everyone in my path" long before she knew of withe walkers. So don't give that "She is doing that for the children" crap. As proven again in the scene with Sansa: They are fighting an undead zombie army, Danaerys is already promised the throne, Sansa asks for the North to be independent, Danaerys: "I do care about the living and the world not ending, but not so much that I would give up 1 of my 7 kingdoms"

"But the Sept of Baelor", you say. Oh, fuck off. If the entire High Sparrow storyline had happened in Essos with Daneyrs we all know it would have ended with "Dracerys! *dragons burn the entire faith militant"*. And everyone would have cheered.

Seriously, what would you have wanted her to do? House Tyrell killed her son. Should she have gone on a revenge war like Robb, with tens of thousands of battle deaths? Or do equivalent of taking out the leadership with a targeted cruise missile?

Cersei is disliked because in a world in which is all about power she dares to want power too, for powers sake. She doesn't hide it behind a cover story "I was forced into it by circumstance" "They killed my family, I only want revenge" and that's a "crime". She sees a bunch of guys playing something called Game of Thrones and goes "What are you playing here? Can I join?" and for that you hate her.

To close: Cersei is the ultimate feminist hero of the show.

[Cyrrex]

Um.  Okay.

While I admire her feminist plight, Cersei is an actual psychopath.

To be fair and balanced, however, I generally agree with most of what you have said in the past about Tywin.  Aside from being a cunt towards his shortest child, he was actually a reasonable character.

[Velorath]

Now to be fair, early on at least Cersei's biggest fault is a failure to control Joffrey, although the other two kids are good people. Jamie (whom a lot of people like) pushed Bran out a window. Yes, Cersei was complicit in the act and when Bran turned out to not be dead, she seemed to strongly hint that she wanted some unfortunate fate to befall him.

The Lannisters were assumed to be behind the death of Jon Arryn, which set pretty much everything in motion and set the Lannisters up as the villains (backed up by the attempted child murder), but of course as it later turns out, they weren't actually responsible for Arryn's death. Cersei doesn't want Ned executed. It's been a while since I rewatched most of the seasons or read the books, but up until the Sept, I'm having a hard time thinking of things she actually did herself that were full-on evil. Even then, by the time she blows up the Sept she's had to deal with two of her kids being murdered.

I don't know if I'm at the point of calling her a feminist hero yet, but I can see the case Calapine is laying down. I think there's more nuance, especially early on to her character than the Bond villain she's become in recent seasons.

[Cyrrex]

Sure, there is nuance, and no, she didn't start murdering people from day one.  But she is still a psychopath as of right now.  We don't have to define the exact point in which that became true.

I totally love Cersei and the actress that plays her, so none of this is meant in the negative     She eats up the screen.

[Teleku]

Heh.

I admit its hard for me to separate book Cersei from TV Cersei having read them long before the TV started, so its hard for me to view her only from the actions she's done on TV (and I'm assuming this is perhaps why you have such a take on her) as I can't mentally separate all that I know about her from that.

Cersei is probably the most vile terrible human in the entire Song of Ice and Fire world short of Ramesy Bolton and The Mountain (who are just over the top).  Even at a young age, she murdered her best friend at age 11 by pushing her down a well and listening to her scream and cry until she died, just because they both heard an old women tell a prophecy Cersei didn't want to come true.

She has been vindictive, petty, and backstabbing her entire life.  She had some of Roberts bastards who lived in Casterly Rock killed and the mother sold into slavery.  Even Jaime pushing Bran out the window was as much by her insistence as anything, as he hesitated, asked his age, and looked towards her.  Her son was a ruthless psychopath and she did everything to let him keep being one.  Being crazy protective of your Children is not a positive trait (note, I have a mother who has done some insane things to 'protect' me when she thought I was being slighted, so maybe I'm more sensitive to that.  A good parent would have sent him to the wall like Sam, or just drowned him).  I do like that GRRM turned tropes around by making her turn out to be completely incompetent when it comes to ruling and even scheming.  They were setting her up in the first book to some stereotypical grand evil woman schemer, and then it turned out she was only good against ultra goody two shoes Stark (again, another trope turner, showing that being heroically good is actually a good way to get everybody killed).  She has completely fucked up everything she has done since then, and Vary's even murders Kevan and Pycelle in the books so they won't stop Cersei from actively fucking up the entire kingdom, so it easier to conquer.

The latest TV break off has her murder her entire in-law family, including the wife of her son, just because the son was listening to his wife more (which is a good thing, because both in the books and the TV show Magyery is by far a better ruler and person than Cersei) and not being so dependent on Cersei anymore.  This act also ends up killing her son.  Also killed several members of her own family (uncle and cousin).  She did all this to save herself and keep her son from listening to anybody but her (insane mother).

I want to repeat.  She murdered her own sons wife just because he truly loved her.  Cersei is a psychopath and vile person.

This also ignores things again happening in the books not shown on TV, such as Cersei sending any maid she thinks might be spying for Margaery (as well as anybody else she doesn't like) down to the dungeon where Qyburn has his lab setup.  He grabs them and then dissects them alive for his experiments.  Bit fuzzy, but pretty sure its implied she's had dozens killed this way, on top of just sending vagrants and others to keep Qyburn happy.

So in short, I've been wanting her to die very painfully and violently for the last 20 odd years, and this season better deliver!

[calapine]

I am only commenting on TV Cersei, as that's what I know.

I want to repeat.  She murdered her own sons wife just because he truly loved her.  Cersei is a psychopath and vile person.

You mean the Tyrell that just murdered her other son? Who only became wife by murdering her first husband?

What would you have Cersei do at that moment? What would stop Olenna who just went "I wont let Magery marry that psychopath Geffory, I'll poison him" go "Hmm, as long as Cersei is alive Magery wont be safe, I better poison her too"? Can you point out any path going forward that would not have ended up with one of the houses wiping each other out?


And I actually have to defend Margery on this. Don't infantalize her, she wasn't some dumb 12 year old being married of. She intelligent, choke full of ambition. Her slutty facade was as much as an act as her innocent behaviour with Tommen. She married fucking Goffrey. Do you think it was out of love? Or that was she ignornat of the danger that put her in with him being so volatile? No, she knew. She made a decision as player in Got in her own right, in the same way Robert made a descion when he started his rebellion and put himself in danger when facing Rhaegar Taygarian (one of the best swordmen of the time) in single combat..

It's actually spelled out directly in the show:

Littlefinger: "Do you want to be queen?"
Margery: "No, I want to be THE queen."

Margery was never "Tommen's wife", she was an player of her own, in the same league as Stannis, Renly, Goffrey. And like Stannis, Renly and Goffrey she lost.

Robert smashing Rhaegars skull at the Trident - WAR
Olenna poising Goffrey at the Wedding - WAR
Cersei blowing up Margery at the Sept - WAR

You don't need a dick to have ambition, and you need a sword and go the Brienne-I-pretend-to-be-a-man way to be a warrior. There is more than one way to fight. If I fuck and poison my way to the top that's as legimate as if I reach it by stabbing and slashing.

You probably don't think so, but that's because you are an chauvinistc asshole.*





(*I kid, I kid  )