Game of Thrones [SPOILERS]

[Teleku]

Yeah, I mean, they played it up with his facial expressions and the way it zoomed in on the grisly things his opponents were doing, to make it look like he broke.  But it was honestly the only thing he could do to keep her alive.  They may still say it was because he was a coward, but that would be pretty shitty since it was the right move.

And Hypno-tits is still hypothetically alive, so I'm happy.   

Though I think the line about the mountain crushing her with his fist was foretelling.

[Speedy Cerviche]

That was a pretty shitty episode.

Honestly, I was already annoyed with Euron magically building a huge deathfleet from stones and nothing, but

Yeah that was pretty disappointing because Euron was a really interesting character in the books, a violently insane genius who may or may not know all kinds of ancient secrets & dark magic and who is immensely respected as a leader of men through his charisma and proven success. He is one of the top 5 most dangerous/capable characters still alive at this point. In the show so far has been portrayed to be mostly some kind pirate caricature who basically acts like a monkey with his intelligence limited to clever banter. Then also it's kind of weird why they decided to give Yara so much screentime and pump her up to be a significant character when she never did half as much in the books. A lot of effort to all to set up this dramatic moment and give Euron a huge victory (although one of their weaker battle scenes so far) in the central events of the story whereas in the book his build up is more in the periphery.  I'll give them a chance to roll with it as we're only 2 episodes deep and now he's made a splash with this big victory and killing off major lords, but if his character was going to go as deep in the show as was we were led to believe in the books he should be dominating Cersei by the end of the season since he is much smarter and more cunning than her (they've hinted at a big conflict with Jaimie already).

I guess this means in the books that

[Ginaz]

Yeah, I mean, they played it up with his facial expressions and the way it zoomed in on the grisly things his opponents were doing, to make it look like he broke.  But it was honestly the only thing he could do to keep her alive.  They may still say it was because he was a coward, but that would be pretty shitty since it was the right move.

And Hypno-tits is still hypothetically alive, so I'm happy.   

Though I think the line about the mountain crushing her with his fist was foretelling.

Yeah, there wasn't much else he could have done except nope the fuck out of there.  Not a really great episode overall and we only have five more to go this season.  I hope things pick up a bit next episode and we see the Unsullied invade Casterly Rock.

[Khaldun]

The Unsullied and Dothraki have been kind of Worfed at this point--it would be nice to just see Dany give them permission to kill the fuck out of everything within thirty miles of Casterly Rock and then have the dragons do a Harrenhall on it afterwards. Sure, that'll feed into Cersei's "oh noes foreigners" narrative, but at this point anything will.

[Phildo]

Ironbornbowl just doesn't roll off the tongue, but I enjoyed the episode.

[Samwise]

I was a little annoyed by the naval incompetence as well.  Tyrion needs to learn how to ride dragons already -- Dany can't be everywhere at once, but having a dragon escorting all her troop movements would eliminate fuckups like what we saw this episode.

We already know Tyrion can design saddles and befriend dragons, so even if you don't buy the theory that he's a Targaryen bastard, the writing is on the wall.   

[Merusk]

We already know Tyrion can design saddles and befriend dragons, so even if you don't buy the theory that he's a Targaryen bastard, the writing is on the wall.   

Let's not forget his story about his, what, 10th birthday.

"It can only be a *little* dragon."

[Khaldun]

Seriously, one dragon not only could fuck up all those ships, it's also a supremely good scout. Air power in a world with no other air power.

[Rasix]

Euron would have had something ready and the dragon would be dead/captured. Euron and Cersei seem to have some sort of ability that entails everyone opposed to them falling into their traps, so they can consistently win every time. I'm sure the Unsullied are going to be routed, because Cersei knew that was going to happen for REASONS. They've probably got some sort of anti-Dothraki device as well to go along with the eventual Tarly betrayal for REAAAAAASSSSOONNNNNS (Billy Bones is going to kill daddy or something).

I had high hopes after that first episode, but we're already going back to "evil will always triumph because good is dumb (or lacks the proper amount of ESP)".

[MrHat]

After the dickless sex scene, I think Greyworm gets killed in the Rock and they burn that bitch down.

[eldaec]

Honestly I was fine with "Yara is good, Euron is better", together with "the storm was bad and everyone was in a hurry".

I also had no issue with Theon, who took the only option not guaranteed to lead to Yara's death and almost certainly his own. Frankly it is character growth over pre-Reek Theon. On reflection I can't think of another way to set up a reasonable redemption. I took the facial expression to mean he was remembering what happens when he pulls a Winterfell.

From some comments here I expecting a season 5 level mess.

Maybe my expectations were set extra low here, but everything with Dany, Arya, Jamie, and Jon was good. The battle was ok. And Sam left me wondering why Greyscale is so damn important.

[schild]

Jorah is going to turn out to be a good pickup for any time by the end of the season.

Samwell too, possibly.

[HaemishM]

Not to spoil the books too much but in the books, Euron had a goddamn magic horn that drove the Iron Islands batshit crazy but which was strongly hinted to be capable of hurting/incapacitating/controlling dragons. I took the overtly "ghost ship" entrance of Euron's vessel complete with lightning backdrop to hint that Euron quite possibly has some kind of magical aid which allowed him to sneak up on Yara.

[schild]

if they start including magical items that can like change the entire tide of the story, this show will go to total shit in .2 seconds.

[Chimpy]

Not to burst anyone's bubble on the whole "Theon did the only thing he could possibly do to save his sister" or whatever ploy, I happened to not turn off the stream after the episode and heard the show creator dudes talk about how it was specifically a "Theon is not over the Reek stuff, this was showing him realizing he is still a broken coward and not some fearless warrior".

[eldaec]

While that would be dumb and unsurprising it happily coincides with the competent course of action. So I am choosing to interpret it in a superior way to author intent.

I'm ok with Theon struggling with what to do next. But I'm only joining the "this is season 5 all over again" camp if he continues to do nothing interesting but take up screen time for the rest of the season.

[eldaec]

if they start including magical items that can like change the entire tide of the story, this show will go to total shit in .2 seconds.

The strong implication is that the dragon horn burns your insides out if you blow it. Book Euron doesn't seem keen. It was being sold as a device for Dany to tame the dragons. Also it might be the horn that can destroy the wall.

Whatever happened here, I doubt it was that.

Also this entire sequence is written for TV - everyone involved should almost certainly be over a thousand miles away in different directions.

The horn could I suppose be the "priceless gift". But even in that case, not showing it this week then next week saying "hey remember that thing, it wasn't me being awesome, it was a magic trumpet" all seems unlikely.

AND if they were doing the horn, why not mention it at that pisspoor approximation of a kingsmoot last year.

[lamaros]

I have been sick and so caught up watching season 2. Don't know how it goes later on, but whenever they make big changes to the books there for real imagined reasons the quality of the writing and plotting is dire. I can only imagine as they go even further and further off Martin's writing they continued to struggle?

Chances of the last two season being pretty average would have to be quite high.

Also I need some fantasy points, damnit.

[Amarr HM]

I did enjoy that episode, 'prepare for a foreign invasion'.

Wasn't as good as episode 1, needs more of the Hound.

[Khaldun]

The foreign invasion line was so cringe-worthy that I thought maybe Euron was summoned by it.

I am ok with Theon being permanently damaged right up to the moment that he does something insane for redemption.

But fuck, if Sansa ends up Littlefinger's dumb pawn and getting raped or assaulted again, that will make me stabby. That gun on the mantlepiece they had better well fire at last--she needs to out Littlefinger him and have a secret plan that has her laughing in his face whenever he pulls what he thinks is a masterstroke.

[Hoax]

They have underplayed why Euron is dangerous and special since he arrived so the whole thing felt a bit out of left field. A reason for him to crush them like that was needed and instead we're back to everyone is just super dumb whenever they need to lose in GoT.

Snow/Sansa/Littlefinger seems like its generally going to be annoying, Sansa's ideas are mainly better than his and he has learned nothing at all from being betrayed for stubbornly doing the righteous thing and dying for it. I mean people literally pointed out that his dad and brother went south and died. The Stark girls have the right of it looking up to Cersei because the bitch gets things done.

Oh Jorah/Sam/Samdad is also zzzzzzz material. At least finally we've had multiple people pointing out when others are treacherous cunts but so far they all point it out then trust them anyways. Fuck me.

[eldaec]

I have been sick and so caught up watching season 2. Don't know how it goes later on, but whenever they make big changes to the books there for real imagined reasons the quality of the writing and plotting is dire. I can only imagine as they go even further and further off Martin's writing they continued to struggle?

I think they do ok when they are choosing what to skip, but whenever they have to invent new stuff to paper over a gap, it is pretty bad.

I suspect part of why people disliked the sea battle so much is that it had people from Dorne in it. D&D have treated the Dornish about as well as Peter Jackson treated Faramir.

If the 'foreign invasion' Dornish  bit had been replaced with someone shouting about another fleet intercepting and everyone messing about with ropes for a few minutes I'm sure it would have been better. Honestly I don't think Missandei and Grey Worm needed their porn scene to be quite that long either. But Brian Cogman was responsible for the Sansa rape episode while Mark Mylod directed the majority of Jamie & Bronn's ridiculous Dornish vacation. By comparison this was fine.

And I really liked the Vays/Dany, Dany/Olenna, Arya/HotPie, and Arya/Nymeria bits.


On another tack entirely, interesting to me how many people seem to be arguing Sansa is talking sense. Personally I think she has been demonstrably wrong about everything she has said since killing Ramsey. But probably a good sign she can divide an audience. I assume she is going to finally deal with Littlefinger (giant in a castle of snow etc) but utterly dreading how badly written she will be, especially without Jon to humanise her. Jon and Sansa talking to each other in private has been a good device to allow both actors to talk like normal relaxed people. I don't really see Captain Phasma being able to take that role.

[Amarr HM]

The foreign invasion line was so cringe-worthy that I thought maybe Euron was summoned by it.

I enjoyed it, and found myself slightly aroused.

[Merusk]

Yeah, I don't find Yara's actress particularly attractive but I was there thinking, "Yes, please..."

Sansa is talking purely practical political sense in the old game. She's right by all the old rules of the world, which is why people feel she's making sense.

None of those rules apply anymore. Jon is the representative of the new rules; Humanity bands together or dies. This is something not a lot of people have wrapped their mind around yet. They still think it's not as big a threat as losing power or prestige.  That being in charge and in control of your destiny matters more than being alive at all.

Jon fully understands the real threat, more than anyone else except perhaps Melisandre & the red priests. Jon knows that dead is dead; King, Peasant, Wildling. He's not doing what he's doing out of some "greater noble code" like his Uncle and Cousins. Things he's doing are it because it's practical with that understanding and directed at the REAL threat. Nothing else matters. If Dany says "bend knee for the Dragonglas" he will without hesitation, because the Dragonglass is the important part, not who's fucking in charge.

That's the great part of the split. Most of the audience will assume Sansa is correct because they, too, are working under the old mindset without realizing it.

[satael]

Jon is a living example of how dead isn't dead and seems to repeat the same mistake that led to his previous demise. As for Jon being practical the whole battle of the bastards showed that he is being led by emotions rather than anything else (and only the deus ex valemen saved him that time).

[Rendakor]

I'm with Merusk; Jon cares about Team People vs Team White Walkers, while everyone else still cares about Team Stark vs Team Lannister etc. I'd like to see Sansa (with Littlefinger's meddling) declare herself Queen in the North after Jon swears fealty to Dany, only to get murdered by Jon/Dany or White Walkers.

[Ironwood]

I'd just like to see Sansa.

[Threash]

Not to burst anyone's bubble on the whole "Theon did the only thing he could possibly do to save his sister" or whatever ploy, I happened to not turn off the stream after the episode and heard the show creator dudes talk about how it was specifically a "Theon is not over the Reek stuff, this was showing him realizing he is still a broken coward and not some fearless warrior".

Then they did a horrible job of showing it. If Theon went to fight Euron step one of that fight was opening Yara's throat ear to ear.  What else was he going to do? toss her aside like the standard woman hostage? SHE'S the dangerous one.

[Speedy Cerviche]

Jon is a living example of how dead isn't dead and seems to repeat the same mistake that led to his previous demise. As for Jon being practical the whole battle of the bastards showed that he is being led by emotions rather than anything else (and only the deus ex valemen saved him that time).

But Jon is correct that they REALLY need dragonglass more than anything else and also a squadron of dragons wouldn't hurt either. Otherwise they are dead dead dead. The king - and first hand witness to the undead hordes - going to personally entreat with Daenarys for the help would be most likely to positive results. Maybe he will even get laid, Dany could use the vitamin D too.

[Samwise]

Targaryens did wed brother to sister for centuries.  And he's only her... nephew?

[kaid]

Not to burst anyone's bubble on the whole "Theon did the only thing he could possibly do to save his sister" or whatever ploy, I happened to not turn off the stream after the episode and heard the show creator dudes talk about how it was specifically a "Theon is not over the Reek stuff, this was showing him realizing he is still a broken coward and not some fearless warrior".

Although even broken and a coward it was still unfortunately the right call. He could do nothing to save his sister his best hope is slink away and hope for some later vengeance.

[HaemishM]

I will apparently be riding Euron Greyjoy to victory. 

[Riggswolfe]

Sansa is talking purely practical political sense in the old game. She's right by all the old rules of the world, which is why people feel she's making sense.

None of those rules apply anymore. Jon is the representative of the new rules; Humanity bands together or dies. This is something not a lot of people have wrapped their mind around yet. They still think it's not as big a threat as losing power or prestige.  That being in charge and in control of your destiny matters more than being alive at all.

Jon fully understands the real threat, more than anyone else except perhaps Melisandre & the red priests. Jon knows that dead is dead; King, Peasant, Wildling. He's not doing what he's doing out of some "greater noble code" like his Uncle and Cousins. Things he's doing are it because it's practical with that understanding and directed at the REAL threat. Nothing else matters. If Dany says "bend knee for the Dragonglas" he will without hesitation, because the Dragonglass is the important part, not who's fucking in charge.

That's the great part of the split. Most of the audience will assume Sansa is correct because they, too, are working under the old mindset without realizing it.

Yeah, I think the show is doing a great job of setting people up to go "There goes Jon being stubborn and too noble for his own good. Just like Ned and (arguably) Rob." I think they're setting Sansa up to look like she's going to betray him and she might even consider it. Sansa and the other Northern Lords don't really understand the threat yet. They still think Cersei is the true danger. They hear Jon but they don't really believe it deep down. Only the Wildlings and the Night's Watch believe him.

But when that first wave of Undead hits the wall and (presumably) breaks through they're going to shit themselves and be like "What do we do now Jon?" Sansa will, if she hasn't been killed for being a traitor, be going "Ok, um...so...uh...Starks gotta stick together right?"

I also don't think any of them believe him when he says he doesn't want to be King of the North. He really doesn't. He only cares about stopping the White Walkers before they kill everyone.

[Chimpy]

I will apparently be riding Euron Greyjoy to victory. 

You didn't even get enough points to pass me in this episode, son!

And Iain got most of his points from "memorable deaths" so I think his stay at the top will be short lived.

[jgsugden]

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