Game of Thrones [SPOILERS]

[Khaldun]

Kind of has to be that way--it's one of those things where Martin hasn't really shown us a world that actually lives up to his world-building, really. Given what's been said about seasons in the books, you'd expect that every Northern community would have to have practices of harvesting and storing food that are very different than our own world, as well as growing cycles that aren't like ours either. (There must have to be five or six growing cycles during summer in order to produce enough food to both live off of it during summer and have sufficient surplus to put it away for two years--or the last cycle of summer must produce crazy bumper crops, etc. ) I'm sure there's geeks who've worked it out but there really isn't a lot in the books to help explain how any of this is possible. The series, on the other hand, is all but ignoring the "summer lasts for years, winter lasts for years" thing.

[angry.bob]

He was never the most likeable dude to start with.

Yeah, his main selling point {other than legitimacy} was his stability. He was the guy that sollowed things to the letter so you knew what the consequences of things were.

As far as food during long winters they could just fish a lot more. I doubt it could take up all the slack, but fish are easy to preserve and they're pretty nutrient dense. Also, after a certain length of time I'm sure cannibalism  taboos get chucked out window.

[Shannow]

Is it me or was there a whole lot more angst from viewers over Sansa's rape than BURNING A FUCKING 12 YEAR OLD GIRL ALIVE AT THE STAKE?!?!

[Lantyssa]

That was a necessity and to some ugly kid.

Sansa getting raped was both a denigration of a beautiful young woman and something that doesn't happen in the real world.

[Read as all green.  Shireen was awesome.  I guess they're setting up Stannis to be the big evil that Danny has to beat, since I cannot imagine Mr. Principles ever doing that.]

[satael]

It seemed like a logical conclusion (for a fictional story) of Stannis' gradual fall as he has now sacrificed everything for his quest to become the king. While there might be a "redeeming self-sacrifice" in store for him at the end of his story I wouldn't put it past Martin that he just ends up broken (and dead) without achieving anything to be his legacy.

[MediumHigh]

If anyone justifies there false moral outrage over Sansa rape after they clapped to sound of a 12 year girl burning at the stake....just rub your dick/vagina through sand paper and do the rest of humanity a favor.

[Shannow]

Mellisandre and Stannis dying in dragon fire would be rather poetic.

[eldaec]

For me problem with Sansa's rape isn't the fact of it, which did feel like a likely outcome, it is the absence of any character or story development around it to justify the screen time, and the way the impact on the audience is wasted because it has no effect on anything. A couple of weeks on it has managed to reduce the impact of Ramsey by removing any uncertainty. If Sansa has been trapped into purely a victim role, then we don't need to see it every week.

I suspect the showrunners just really like filming Ramsey and Theon. They get an absurd amount of time on screen, despite having done nothing of consequence since season 2 and despite being 1 dimensional characters utterly unaffected by events around them. We've now had so much Reek that it almost seems ridiculous to imagine the re-emergence of Theon.

[Speedy Cerviche]

Well there was a lot of this endless Reek & Ramsey stuff in the book too... Gotta assume it's building to something or it would have been cut like a lot of other side stuff.

[Chimpy]

The burning bothered me just as much as the rape scene. But, having read the books, I knew that Stannis had to burn someone alive to get his "king's blood" to save his army. They totally cut out the characters and plot lines that were used for that scene in the show but did not remove the stuff about the roasting people alive. They also foreshadowed the ever living fuck out of it.

Thus, they painted themselves into a corner and, as someone mentioned, it actually served a purpose in the narrative outside of sheer shock value.

[eldaec]

The book had neither Ramsey nor Reek "on screen" in season 3 or 4.

But I completely agree that book winterfell was terrible throughout this season's content. At least it had secret agent Mance. People getting murdered among the Bolton crew would have given us something to pass the time.

[Speedy Cerviche]

Definitely miss the shenanagins of Lord Manderly on the show.

Surprised they skipped him, could have worked well because he could have added a dose of humour that's somewhat missing from this grim serious season.

[Lantyssa]

But, having read the books, I knew that Stannis had to burn someone alive to get his "king's blood" to save his army. They totally cut out the characters and plot lines that were used for that scene in the show but did not remove the stuff about the roasting people alive. They also foreshadowed the ever living fuck out of it.

The roasting in the books wasn't who it was depicted as at the time.  No one of King's-blood roasted in the North in the books, and out on the road Stannis doesn't even have the option short of burning himself.  But then by this point Mellsandra has realized that maybe Stannis isn't Ahzore Ahai, either.  (And neither she, the Queen, Shireen, nor Davos were with Stannis.)

[angry.bob]

Didn't Stannis restrict the burnings to cannibals in his army and tell the Lord of Light's followers to try praying harder? Also, that if he died his army should keep fighting to put his daughter on the throne?

[Speedy Cerviche]

Will be interesting to see how the great blood magic sacrifice Melisandre demanded can extract Stannis and his army from his seemingly hopeless snowbound predicament.

[Merusk]

So I guess my new prediction for the finale is someone coming off of someone's nightly list, along with the consequences that follow. No idea if they are going to resolve any more of Winterfell - we really are at the point where having read the books doesn't help much.

Here's what I expect we'll see next week:
* Early fallout from Dany going AWOL and the start of the siege, which will be Sons of the Harpy instead
* Wall storyline continues with the wildlings setting-up & early tensions. Jon Snow's angst about the Night's Watch staying apolitical vs Stanis' demand via Davos won't come until next season.
* Winterfell/ Sansa doing something pointlessly pointless as we won't get anything satisfactory here until next year. Maybe Brienne rescues her. Still not sure where they're going here.
* Cersi/ Margary resolution in the last 20-30 mins.

[Speedy Cerviche]

Probably will be some Arya scene also, where she either kills that Kingsguard knight and starts some trouble or is stopped by Jaqen who clearly knows she is up to something.

[MediumHigh]

The burning bothered me just as much as the rape scene. But, having read the books, I knew that Stannis had to burn someone alive to get his "king's blood" to save his army. They totally cut out the characters and plot lines that were used for that scene in the show but did not remove the stuff about the roasting people alive. They also foreshadowed the ever living fuck out of it.

Thus, they painted themselves into a corner and, as someone mentioned, it actually served a purpose in the narrative outside of sheer shock value.

Hmm no it didnt. In the books his family wasnt there, he only burned deserters and he basically marched forward with grim determination despite multiple set backs. Not once was kings blood brought up or him needing to do some other religious crazyness. Oh and you justified it grab some sandpaper.

[Merusk]

Probably will be some Arya scene also, where she either kills that Kingsguard knight and starts some trouble or is stopped by Jaqen who clearly knows she is up to something.

Ah, right, I knew I missed something.  I suspect she won't do the Kingsguard yet, but she's forming the plan. She'll finish her actual assignment, get her new face and then in the start of next season she'll do-in the Kingsguard.

[schild]

Episode was trash.

[March]

But then by this point Mellsandra has realized that maybe Stannis isn't Ahzore Ahai, either.  (And neither she, the Queen, Shireen, nor Davos were with Stannis.)

[K9]

I couldn't watch the burning. Fuck that noise.

[Rasix]

Yah, this kills the show for my wife.  She was starting to lose interest anyhow.

[schild]

I couldn't watch the burning. Fuck that noise.

You didn't have to. They showed precisely nothing.

[Chimpy]

But, having read the books, I knew that Stannis had to burn someone alive to get his "king's blood" to save his army. They totally cut out the characters and plot lines that were used for that scene in the show but did not remove the stuff about the roasting people alive. They also foreshadowed the ever living fuck out of it.

The roasting in the books wasn't who it was depicted as at the time.  No one of King's-blood roasted in the North in the books, and out on the road Stannis doesn't even have the option short of burning himself.  But then by this point Mellsandra has realized that maybe Stannis isn't Ahzore Ahai, either.  (And neither she, the Queen, Shireen, nor Davos were with Stannis.)

In the books, Mance's baby was the "king's blood" sacrifice. Though I guess that was for the sword instead of breaking the camp out of ice?

[Phildo]

Stannis has always kind of sucked.  He basically killed his younger brother with a shadow demon because Renly was more popular than he was.

[MediumHigh]

But, having read the books, I knew that Stannis had to burn someone alive to get his "king's blood" to save his army. They totally cut out the characters and plot lines that were used for that scene in the show but did not remove the stuff about the roasting people alive. They also foreshadowed the ever living fuck out of it.

The roasting in the books wasn't who it was depicted as at the time.  No one of King's-blood roasted in the North in the books, and out on the road Stannis doesn't even have the option short of burning himself.  But then by this point Mellsandra has realized that maybe Stannis isn't Ahzore Ahai, either.  (And neither she, the Queen, Shireen, nor Davos were with Stannis.)

In the books, Mance's baby was the "king's blood" sacrifice. Though I guess that was for the sword instead of breaking the camp out of ice?

That was for the sword.

[Lantyssa]

And Mance's son was sent south with Gilly and Sam precisely so Stannis couldn't use him.

[Chimpy]

And Mance's son was sent south with Gilly and Sam precisely so Stannis couldn't use him.

Yeah, that is the storyline they totally cut out I mentioned.

[Tmon]

Stannis has always kind of sucked.  He basically killed his younger brother with a shadow demon because Renly was more popular than he was.

Yeah, in many ways Stannis was among the least appealing contenders for the throne for me, although I found the TV version slightly more palatable up to this episode. 

[Tebonas]

Haven't read the books this far, but man will the Onion Knight be pissed in the TV version...

[Rendakor]

The burning wasn't really surprising; it was heavily foreshadowed and the logical conclusion of Stannis's desperation. She even volunteered to help! I'm pretty curious to see what magical nonsense they conjured up with it.

Hopefully Dany just leaves Mereen without looking back; her 6 loyal followers can sneak out and meet her.

[Lantyssa]

The look on Stannis' face tells me it wasn't good.

[MahrinSkel]

Haven't read the books this far, but man will the Onion Knight be pissed in the TV version...

Of course, if TV Onion Knight hadn't helped Robert's blacksmith bastard run away, they would have had another source for "king's blood" sacrifice. It's not a stretch to say that act of mercy led to Shireen getting toasted.

--Dave

[Khaldun]

Ramsay Bolton is a basically modern character, with a basically modern narrative and psychological background. Rape and sexual assault sometimes figure in classical and early modern European stories and myths but in a very different way than they play out in GoT.

Stannis is a 100% ripped from Greek and Shakespearean tragedy template, right down to the storybeats. Which is why I'm fairly sure he's in for a serious demythologizing at some point in the siege of Winterfell--his story is imminently going to end ingloriously, I strongly suspect. I do not think either Martin or the showrunners are going to accommodate him with a grandly tragic Act V.

In any event, these are really different kinds of mini-narratives composed from very different sources and influences.