Game of Thrones [SPOILERS]

[kaid]

So, can I safely read Book 3 now?

--Dave (who was smart enough to avoid these threads all day Sunday)

No this season covered half or a bit more of book 3 the other shoe is in the air still waiting to drop next season.

[Rasix]

Catelyn I didn't much like in the books either.  The TV version pretty much nails her, I think.

Yah, her POV was one of my least favorite.  Her and Cersei I just couldn't stand.  She's not a very likeable or sympathetic character in either portrayal.

[kaid]

I mean, I kind of just want to ruin the entire TV series for people so they can see that a bunch of the do-nothing characters DO eventually do something, but I have no clue how they're going to handle the tv show outpacing the books.

This is what really makes me curious. If they can keep the funding up and it shows no sign of slacking at the moment next season should blow through the remainder of book three and probably start doing a lot of the book four stuff as well. At the rate old george writes it is VERY possible and probably even likely that the show will catch up to the books and then it will be interesting to see what happens. Either the show makers are going to get some outlines on where george wanted things to go or are going to say fuck it we are doing it live and go off on their own tangents.

Probably a combination of the later two if if george cannot stop basking in the money hats long enough to finish the god damn series.

[eldaec]

Catelyn I didn't much like in the books either.  The TV version pretty much nails her, I think.

Yah, her POV was one of my least favorite.  Her and Cersei I just couldn't stand.  She's not a very likeable or sympathetic character in either portrayal.

Personally I felt Cersei was more sympathetic by the end. You find out what her damage is about. You never really find out what made Catelyn into such a thoroughly annoying individual.

Similarly on screen, the Cersei/Tyrion scenes are all great and give Cersei more depth than she ever has in the books.

[Merusk]

I'm surprised Schild didn't share this here as well as FB, so I'll do it instead. He had his chance!

https://twitter.com/RedWeddingTears

THERE's the shock and awe I was looking for this morning.

[Rendakor]

Posted a page ago.

[schild]

I'm surprised Schild didn't share this here as well as FB, so I'll do it instead. He had his chance!

https://twitter.com/RedWeddingTears

THERE's the shock and awe I was looking for this morning.

That would be because I got the link from here.

[Lucas]

"They're dead...like, so dead!!" (Maisie Williams' reaction :D)

https://vine.co/v/b3XZMHmxzxh

On constant repeat, can't stop it 

[Bzalthek]

"They're dead...like, so dead!!" (Maisie Williams' reaction :D)

https://vine.co/v/b3XZMHmxzxh

On constant repeat, can't stop it 

hee!

[Rasix]

Play them off, keyboard cat!

[Lucas]

a very moving reaction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMiTOtBjcYw

[Khaldun]

TV Robb and his mother were obnoxious whiny jackasses that puttered around and did nothing for a season and a half.

This is weird because my wife thinks the same thing and yet she generally has reasonably good judgment about most popular culture.

[Hayduke]

I was watching with someone who hasn't read the books and their reaction was initially "Oh fuck" but quickly moved to acceptance and "Well at least SOMETHING finally happened this season."  This isn't a Ned Stark moment.  It seems to me that since season one the show has really struggled to have interesting characters who aren't Lannisters.  Even knowing that it was coming (and knowing of the coming quagmire that sets in for book 4) it was almost a relief to have some duller plotlines ended.

[Morat20]

You know, watching this and really thinking about it crystallized a few things from the books.

 Robb sorta had it coming. Sure, he's a sympathetic character and far more noble than most of the other jackasses prancing around, but he basically called backsies on a marriage of state he was sworn to -- after getting the goodies. He basically got paid, call the deal off, and then pranced his new wife in.

Start as you mean to go on, right? And he's basically shown his word is worthless if he sees something he wants more. (And his word and honor were like the two big things Stark was supposed to stand for).

Him and his mother basically pissed away their allies and army in favor of family. Which is great for 20th century American morals, but basically shit-stupid in that sort of time period.

It seems like, in general, people get what they deserve -- actions have consequences, and sometimes you die or get shit on because someone more powerful than you made a choice that fucked you, but even the powerful have all this shit come back to them.

Robb and his mother ruined themselves. I think the bitching isn't that they died pointless deaths. It's just in fantasy we expect heroes and main characters to die significant, heroic deaths. Deaths that fit their status.

Getting offed because of the consequences of your own actions -- the totally predictable consequences of your own actions -- isn't that heroic. It's what happens to, you know, villians and minor characters. The fuck-ups of heros are there for drama, but ultimately solve-able.

[Hayduke]

Been awhile but didn't the first book start with Ned killing an oath breaker in front of Robb? Seems the lesson was lost on him.

[Rendakor]

The thing about Robb is that he broke an oath, but still put faith in the one he betrayed because of his sense of honor.

[Merusk]

Been awhile but didn't the first book start with Ned killing an oath breaker in front of Robb? Seems the lesson was lost on him.

It was, and it was something his mother was a lot more insistent on in the books.  It was the sole redeeming feature of Caetlyn, she said "Fucker, you're King act like it and maintain your vow!"  Instead he calls her some rotten words and acts like a teenager who'd dipped his wick for the first time.    Yes, he totally had it coming.

[Morat20]

Also, as to the Rains of Castemere playing -- that should have been a tip-off to ANYONE. They've been mentioning that song for two seasons now, played multiple versions of it, and it was referenced either the previous episode or the one before that as part of Queen Bitch Regent's threat to whats-her-face.

They had a whole conversation on it. So hearing a mournful ballad about how the Lannisters absolutely and totally crushed another house for the tiniest slight to their power at a wedding? That was more of a tip-off than the doors.

[Hayduke]

The thing about Robb is that he broke an oath, but still put faith in the one he betrayed because of his sense of honor.

I don't think it was honor that moved him so much as desperation.  He was clearly fucked without the Freys.  He never would've gone there if he could've avoided it.

[Rasix]

Also, as to the Rains of Castemere playing -- that should have been a tip-off to ANYONE.

I think if you've been sperging on the show, you might have.  Seriously, it's not like they were singing the lyrics.  I think it's only been on the show twice that I can recall and once was in the credits.  Did they play it before the conversation with the Margery and Cersei?  I don't remember.  Otherwise, that's not much help.  It certainly wasn't a cheerful tune, however, and you'd think the rest of the wedding party (other than Catelyn) would have been more clued in. They were kinda drunk though.

I think in the books they helped set this confict up better.  Robb didn't fall in love with Jeyne.   He banged her after she nursed him back to health, and he felt honor bound to marry her.  Red Wedding or not, the Starks were finished.  The TV version has Edmure derping away half Robb's army, when in the book Roose was already actively conspiring to lose them the war by getting half of Robb's army (and none of his own men) killed at Duskendale.   This way was just cleaner and quicker, but they were likely going to lose without further loss of Lannister men, anyhow.

The older Stark men just have a really crappy sense of honor.  They hold their family and personal honor quite high and hold it before other oaths.  Unfortunately, had they held to the other oaths, they wouldn't be.. well, dead.

Plus, we all kind of sound like dicks here.  Walder Frey, Roose Bolton and Tywin Lannister will deserve everything they eventually get.  I'm not sure GRRM is enough of a cynic to let them off the hook.

[Rendakor]

Have you read the books Rasix?

[Rasix]

I think in the books they helped set this confict up better.  Robb didn't fall in love with Jeyne.   He banged her after she nursed him back to health, and he felt honor bound to marry her.  Red Wedding or not, the Starks were finished.  The TV version has Edmure derping away half Robb's army, when in the book Roose was already actively conspiring to lose them the war by getting half of Robb's army (and none of his own men) killed at Duskendale.   This way was just cleaner and quicker, but they were likely going to lose without further loss of Lannister men, anyhow.

[Rendakor]

Sorry, you ended that post speculating on the fate of someone who's been dead for a while now.

[Rasix]

Well, I kinda didn't want to spoil it.

[Rendakor]

Fair enough; it was just confusing.

[Rasix]

I can see that.  It felt weird typing it. 

[Ironwood]

Sigh.

[Lucas]

From the "Winter is Coming" fansite:
http://winteriscoming.net/2013/06/got-laughs-welcome-to-the-club/#more-27349

[Tebonas]

To be fair, the only one I really mourned at the feast was Robbs Wolf.

The Blackfish got away and Greatjon wasn't present (although I think he should have been), and everybody else in there asked for it (except Walder Freys poor wife).

[Teleku]

Other than the people you mentioned, who the hell else was left at that wedding who did anything storywise to possibly ask for it (other than Catelyn obvioulsy, for the crime of being a character nobody ever liked)?

[Tebonas]

Catelyn and TV-Robb.

Edmure, but he sadly got away.

Bolton and Walder Frey also, but they were on the wrong side of that ambush.

[schild]

it isn't sad Edmure got away. He's the only good actor that was even in that room full of crappy hacks.

[HaemishM]

Catelyn I didn't much like in the books either.  The TV version pretty much nails her, I think.

Yah, her POV was one of my least favorite.  Her and Cersei I just couldn't stand.  She's not a very likeable or sympathetic character in either portrayal.

Cersei I don't mind, but yeah, Catelyn in both books and show was fucking annoying. It was understandable WHY, but shit... she was just irritating. The actress nailed the character quite well though.

[Threash]

I love how just like in the book rewatching the episode changes the meaning of so many lines, like Walder Frey claiming he would break fifty oaths to get inside Talisa.

[MrHat]

I love how just like in the book rewatching the episode changes the meaning of so many lines, like Walder Frey claiming he would break fifty oaths to get inside Talisa.

Oh shit.

I'm starting to think a complete rewatch is in order.