Game of Thrones [SPOILERS]

[Khaldun]

Considering that quite a few people witnessed Jon's murder and resurrection, I would think by now that the rumor would be spreading among the Northerners. At the least, it's odd that no one in the North is curious about the fact that Jon was the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch and then he wasn't. That's pretty weird. They must also be confused by the fact that the surviving remnants of the Night's Watch aren't sending messages about Jon having fled the Night's Watch, considering that they would always have done so in the past.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I'm just annoyed that Arya skipped the first class of ninja training, the whole being sneaky part.

[Brolan]

It is not clear to me if Jon's order to Sam to study to become a maester released him from the Watch.  If it didn't then Sam has to go North immediately or be a deserter. Otherwise he can do as he wills. But it does seem wrong that he is not following his orders. On the other hand if he isn't in the Watch does he have to follow orders anymore?  Weird situation.

[Rendakor]

I'm just annoyed that Arya skipped the first class of ninja training, the whole being sneaky part.

I actually liked that bit; Arya has come off as pretty overpowered lately, so seeing Littlefinger (who is supposed to be the master of shady) catch her at her own game was a nice touch. LF has seemed lost in Winterfell the past few episodes, so it's good to see him back to successfully scheming a bit.

Overall I liked the episode, although the "Avengers, Assemble!" seemed a bit contrived. Oh well, if it gets us more of The Hound I'll take it.

Re: Sam, I don't think going to Oldtown releases him from the Watch. Leaving probably counts as oathbreaking too, so he's probably doomed. He still has his father's Valyrian steel sword, right? I didn't see it when he was heading out, but I don't remember him giving it away or anything like that.

[satael]

I think I would have liked it if Arya and Bran had been played more as almost supernatural actors at this point and they'd have more time devoted to Little Finger and Sansa trying to figure how to deal with them and possibly the different ideologies they represent  (though there are so few episodes left that there's really no time for that anyway).

[Brolan]

With Sam getting fed up right at the same time the other male heirs of House Tarly get killed, it's not too hard to guess where he is going.  Even if his character doesn't know about it yet.

[Khaldun]

He's got that sword, after all. (Odd that Daddy Dearest didn't make more of a fuss about that. Too late now!)

[jgsugden]

I'm just annoyed that Arya skipped the first class of ninja training, the whole being sneaky part.

Did she, or does she know she is being played?

[Threash]

I liked the way they snuck in Jon's legitimacy (and Sam's development of a spine in general)

I told you all Gilly was the key to the whole shebang.

Isn't Sam now head of house Tarly?  No one mentioned that in the show.

Sam resigned all his family rights twice, once when joining the night's watch and once when joining the maesters. House Tarly is over.

[Brolan]

I'm just annoyed that Arya skipped the first class of ninja training, the whole being sneaky part.

Did she, or does she know she is being played?

You would think she would pick up on it.  Littlefinger was discussing a secret issue in the hall (loud enough to be heard) when he could have easily invited the other guy into his room and closed the door.  But this is the same Arya who quit the Faceless Men and thought it was ok to walk around Braavos in broad daylight and no disguise.

[schild]

I liked the way they snuck in Jon's legitimacy (and Sam's development of a spine in general)

I told you all Gilly was the key to the whole shebang.

Cube did it first.

[MrHat]

I liked the way they snuck in Jon's legitimacy (and Sam's development of a spine in general)

I told you all Gilly was the key to the whole shebang.

Isn't Sam now head of house Tarly?  No one mentioned that in the show.

Sam resigned all his family rights twice, once when joining the night's watch and once when joining the maesters. House Tarly is over.

What about Gillys kid that Sam claimed as his own?

[HaemishM]

I think it's become pretty clear that the Night's Watch pledge doesn't really even have a lot of meaning anymore. Tarly refused to take the Black because he said Dany wasn't his queen, which while sort of true isn't actually. Dany is the rightful heir to the Targaryen throne, and the only legitmacy Cersei has is that which she took by murder, deception and continuing the lineage of a usurper's throne. If we want to get technical, Jon Snow is actually the most legitimate heir to the throne as apparently his mother was legally married to Prince Rhaegar and so he's the last surviving MALE Targareyn (unless you count Tyrion but since his parents definitely weren't married, you can't) and even though he is Aegon's grandchild, he is male and thus has more claim than Dany.

Which again, matters fuckall if the people don't believe it and the institutions of the crown don't accept it either. Just like the vows of the Night's Watch, that was the old way. Dany likely won't keep the Night's Watch as an unbreakable vow since the whole beheading thing seems to be not her bag (maybe they'll just be burnt alive). The coming of the White Walkers is a sign that all the old institutions are mostly null and void.

[Polysorbate80]

Rhaegar was heir apparent, so under primogeniture if Jon is legitimate then as Rhaegar's eldest surviving son he would inherit the throne before either Viserys or Daenarys.

[jgsugden]

This all assumes that all we know becomes known to the characters.  I assume Jon's lineage will come to light and that will prompt the marriage between him and Dani. 

Also, was Tyrion's non-Lannister lineage ever confirmed in the show?  As far as I know, it is only speculated so far.  There are book reasons to suspect it, but nothing determinative like for Jon. 

[Brolan]

But Dani is Jon's Aunt.  It's kind of creepy thinking of a marriage between them.

[Trippy]

Lightsabers make everything better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVTtNOepijk

[Riggswolfe]

But Dani is Jon's Aunt.  It's kind of creepy thinking of a marriage between them.

Have you uhh....ever watched the show? Or read the books? This is positively tame by Targaryen standards.

[jgsugden]

Hey, whatever a Warg King and a Dragon-blooded Queen wish to do in the privacy of their own chambers...

Still, I wonder what GRRM's two younger sisters, Darleene and Janet, think of his abundant use of incest in his books.

[Samwise]

It's arguably significantly less gross than other examples of royal incest since they didn't grow up together and aren't direct full-blooded siblings.

[Chimpy]

Hey, whatever a Warg King and a Dragon-blooded Queen wish to do in the privacy of their own chambers...

Still, I wonder what GRRM's two younger sisters, Darleene and Janet, think of his abundant use of incest in his books.

In the books it was insinuated  that she is barren as a result of the circumstances around her pregnancy when she was married to Drogo.

Thus, it would be legal in places where incestuous marriages are allowed if no children result. 

[Threash]

Lightsabers make everything better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVTtNOepijk

They should have removed the regular sword noises.

[Brolan]

Hey, whatever a Warg King and a Dragon-blooded Queen wish to do in the privacy of their own chambers...

Still, I wonder what GRRM's two younger sisters, Darleene and Janet, think of his abundant use of incest in his books.

In the books it was insinuated  that she is barren as a result of the circumstances around her pregnancy when she was married to Drogo.

Thus, it would be legal in places where incestuous marriages are allowed if no children result. 

So, the people widely assumed to be the rulers at the end of this mess likely can't produce an heir.  This setting the stage for another huge power struggle when they die.

Actually seems appropriate for this world.

[eldaec]

Hey, whatever a Warg King and a Dragon-blooded Queen wish to do in the privacy of their own chambers...

Still, I wonder what GRRM's two younger sisters, Darleene and Janet, think of his abundant use of incest in his books.

In the books it was insinuated  that she is barren as a result of the circumstances around her pregnancy when she was married to Drogo.

Thus, it would be legal in places where incestuous marriages are allowed if no children result.  

So, the people widely assumed to be the rulers at the end of this mess likely can't produce an heir.  This setting the stage for another huge power struggle when they die.

Actually seems appropriate for this world.

Well, maybe, actually the books conspicuously keep repeating a prophecy that says her womb will quicken again when a bunch of impossible things happen. A mountain blowing in the wind, sun rising in the west, seas go dry, that sort of thing. So you could read it is as a guarantee that she will have another child if you want.

My assumption is that neither Jon nor Dany are surviving the series - and she does not have time to have a child on TV.

[eldaec]

As for the episode, gloriously produced fan fic.




I'll be fascinated to see if GRRM includes any of that at all, and bloody impressed if he can sell any of it. But it was really well delivered horseshit.

Dragons have been awesome sauce even when burning people - so 'hey maybe they aren't 100% brilliant' was well done.

Jon on a mountaintop - for no reason thinking Drogon won't eat him - ok, that's cool, the 'Jon is a Targ' subtext very on the nose - but also it might have been calling back to "Tyrion meets the Dragons".

Gilly was clearly "Hey book readers - I'm fucking with you for no reason". But I don't think it is a complete book spoiler, as I'm fairly convinced that it was Septon Meribald who married Rhaegar and Lyanna. Also since when do Maesters marry or annual anyone?

Gendry..... we're just in why the fuck not territory now.

[HaemishM]

Until GRRM can show that he'll actually get off his ass and finish the books, I give not one measly fuck whether anything in the TV show ends up being a spoiler for the book or not. If the fat fuck cares, the fat fuck can finish writing the books.

[jgsugden]

...
Well, maybe, actually the books conspicuously keep repeating a prophecy that says her womb will quicken again when a bunch of impossible things happen. A mountain blowing in the wind, sun rising in the west, seas go dry, that sort of thing. So you could read it is as a guarantee that she will have another child if you want.

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he (Drogo) will return, and not before."

There are people that say that this prophecy has already been fulfilled by a Martell doing to the East and dying (A Sun's son), the Dothraki sea drying out, and the destruction of two pyramids at Dany's hands.... However, it doesn't really matter as the prophecy doesn't say that Dany won't get pregnant.  It says when Drogo will return - her pregnancy is a condition, not the culmination - of the prophecy.

Most people read the inclusion of her pregnancy to be a way for Mirri Maz Duur to rub her nose in the revelation that she is as likely to carry a child as the other conditions.  However, when a story makes a big deal about a women not being able to have a child, she usually has a child.  In this case, however, she already has three.

[Hutch]

Stop. Hammertime.

[Brolan]

Until GRRM can show that he'll actually get off his ass and finish the books, I give not one measly fuck whether anything in the TV show ends up being a spoiler for the book or not. If the fat fuck cares, the fat fuck can finish writing the books.

Very much this.  I'm convinced GRRM will never finish the books, his stroke or heart attack will happen before that.

[Merusk]

They keep getting better...

"He really is a True Dad."

"Would I dodo that?"

[Brolan]

They keep getting better...

"He really is a True Dad."

"Would I dodo that?"

"but I set your friends on fire to prove to you that I don't"

[Chimpy]

Gilly was clearly "Hey book readers - I'm fucking with you for no reason". But I don't think it is a complete book spoiler, as I'm fairly convinced that it was Septon Meribald who married Rhaegar and Lyanna. Also since when do Maesters marry or annual anyone?

The book was by a Maester, and the quote she read actually said  (paraphrasing) "Prince Rhaegar asked for an annulment and then was married by Septon so-and-so in Dorne to" before Sam cut her off.

[Samwise]

I want to know how they're going to capture a white walker and bring it to King's Landing.  The scene of them venturing out beyond the wall needed one of them to be carrying a giant butterfly net.

[Threash]

I want to know how they're going to capture a white walker and bring it to King's Landing.  The scene of them venturing out beyond the wall needed one of them to be carrying a giant butterfly net.

They are not after a white walker, just a zombie.

[Brolan]

One of them had a large coil of rope.  Maybe they will tie it up?

Sounds really dangerous.