WotLK

[MrHat]

Blizzard has already stated that Hunter DPS "may be a tad to high" and are "keeping a close eye on it".

An eagle eye?
 

[Jeff Kelly]

As I've seen blue posts recently, the design no longer includes a price for versatility.  They keep saying that their intention is that between say, a hunter and a druid/shaman/warrior/paladin/etc specced for DPS, the difference should come down to player skill and gear, and that neither one should be noticeably inferior purely because of their class.

Great so between that and dual specs there really is no longer a point in playing certain classes at all

[Dren]

The biggest difference between DPS classes will be utility uses.  I'm already seeing this now.  Many times we get into an instance and somebody will comment on how [insert class] would be nice for [insert utility].

Our guild has a severe lack of mages, priests, and shaman.  Each of those have their own buffs, utilities, interrupts, etc that are beneficial.  Do you HAVE to have them to get by in some instances?  No.  In my book, that is a good thing.  Only the flavor changes.

I do have to say that certain combinations of classes still make for "better" runs.  Last night my group ran 3 heroics in a row within 2.5 hours.  With a shadow priest, tree druid, and ret pally using judgement of light, we had such a thick slathering of HPS coming at everyone at all times that we had only one wipe.  That one wipe was because the ret pally wasn't paying attention and pulled a boss on us during a trash pull.  It wasn't the highest DPS in the world, but is certainly was SAFE.

[DraconianOne]

Great so between that and dual specs there really is no longer a point in playing certain classes at all

Conversely, there's every reason to play the class you want to now.

[Merusk]

Great so between that and dual specs there really is no longer a point in playing certain classes at all

Conversely, there's every reason to play the class you want to now.

Only if all you do is solo.  If you plan on raiding you'll sit out a lot (Particularly as DPS because there's way too many of those these days.) or continue to be forced into a spec because you're short that archtype.  (Healers of all stripes I'm looking at you.)  If you refuse that respec, nobody raids! Whee, goodwill from everyone!

[Ingmar]

Great so between that and dual specs there really is no longer a point in playing certain classes at all

Conversely, there's every reason to play the class you want to now.

Only if all you do is solo.  If you plan on raiding you'll sit out a lot (Particularly as DPS because there's way too many of those these days.) or continue to be forced into a spec because you're short that archtype.  (Healers of all stripes I'm looking at you.)  If you refuse that respec, nobody raids! Whee, goodwill from everyone!

This only holds true if you were short healers to start with. Most functional raiding groups already have the healers they need, I would think.

The really high end people were already making people hearth and respec for specific fights and doing all sorts of other crazy stuff like that, so nothing really changes for them.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I'm a shadow priest, have been for three years now and I welcome the new changes.  In burning crusade one, maybe two shadow priests were absolutely necessary as mana batteries.  Yes this insured me a spot in every raid but quite frankly I didn't like being there just because i had a buff we couldn't raid without. Why because i tired hard, i cared about doing the most possible dps i could and i would like to be brought in because of that.  

For instance my guild regularly ran with two shadow priests and the other sat on his hands most nights doing not much more tham spamming VT/mindflay why? because he knew he didn't need to do much.

I hear a lot of complaining about too much dps but I'm sorry, that's been the problem in every single game since they introduced the holy trinity of tank/healer/dps. There's always too much dps but at least now in wow you don't need to worry so much about needing two spriests or at least three rogues or whatever. You can take your friends, or you can take good players and really if you don't have any friends at all and you can't play well? then that's your own problem not the game.

[Ingmar]

Where I think the dual spec thing will really shine for us is when we have 5 people on and want to run a heroic, but our lineup isn't right - we have 2 tanks, or we have 4 dps, or whatever. For our raids the pool is larger and it won't matter that much except for those 'hey we don't need 2 tanks for this fight' type situations.

[Sjofn]

I look forward to making you respec to fury every time we have too many tanks. 

[Paelos]

I look forward to making you respec to fury every time we have too many tanks. 

My raiding group, including myself, has 7 tanks atm. We do a roll every night when we 25 man. Top 3 tank, and the rest go DPS. The funny thing is, nobody gets pissed about it because we are all in a similar gear situation.

[Sjofn]

Ingmar is a big fat tank hog. The result isn't really bad, mind you, he's always really, really sturdy and good for slightly undergeared healers and such, as he is obsessive over his gear. He just needs to LEARN TO SHARE. <sob>

[Fordel]

I can always steal his throne with my Paladin again 

[Sjofn]

You just know he died a little inside when it turned out I was a better choice to MT whatever boss it was I MT'd while he had to fuss with the lowly adds.

[Fordel]

I did enjoy that all my teasing about "clearly it was the tanks fault" was technically correct 

[Rasix]

Figured this would be the best place for a DKLOL story.

Just did a VOA 25 man pug with 9-10 other DKs. I was amazed I was able to do decent DPS with the amount of lag all of that Icy Touch, desecration, and ghouls + Army of the Dead caused.   Guy went down really fast.   

Sadly, my 31 roll wasn't enough to win the gloves that dropped.

[Ratman_tf]

Where I think the dual spec thing will really shine for us is when we have 5 people on and want to run a heroic, but our lineup isn't right - we have 2 tanks, or we have 4 dps, or whatever. For our raids the pool is larger and it won't matter that much except for those 'hey we don't need 2 tanks for this fight' type situations.

I've had to pass on lots of heroics because they had a healer and needed DPS. I would probably use dual spec to swap out Holy for Ret on non-raid days.

[Ratman_tf]

Paladin single target healing is sick which has splash healing and there is also that ability that copies the heal to someone else.  They are incredible in 10 mans supposedly.  This isn't first hand experience though.

The splash healing from Holy Light is negligible, but it's one of the only good glyphs, so I take it anyway.

Beacon is sick. we 8 manned plague and construct wings last night. Healers were me (Holy Pallie) and a Shaman. We have a tight group with good gear, and that helps.

I use Spell Reminder addon to keep track of Beacon of Light and Sacred Shield and that's the MT and OT covered while the throwaway healers  raidheal.

Patchwerk is still horrible. He eats all my mana, but he's doable with Divine Plea.

[El Gallo]

Great so between that and dual specs there really is no longer a point in playing certain classes at all

Conversely, there's every reason to play the class you want to now.

Not if you want a group in fewer than 3 hours.  Roll rogue and you can fill up DPS slots.  Roll most other classes and you can fill up 2 out of (DPS, heal, tank) spots.  Roll druid and you can fill up any slot (yes, yes, with some small sacrifices). 

Blizzard should man up and make dual-specs a real, Final Fantasy style job system because, as it is planned now, it's a job system but only for certain classes.
 

[Nebu]

Blizzard should man up and make dual-specs a real, Final Fantasy style job system because, as it is planned now, it's a job system but only for certain classes.

If Blizzard were to do this, it would unfairly affect classes benefitting from it.  The only way that allowing dual specs would be a solid idea would be if all classes had viable dual function abilities.  Some classes really don't fit this and would suffer exclusion.  I'd love to see an MMO out there where EVERY class had a viable tank, dps, or healing spec.  Sadly, we haven't evolved that far yet. 

[Merusk]

I think what he meant was "today I'm a priest, tomorrow I'm a death knight."  It doesn't benefit hybrid classes then, since anyone can be any class whenever, but the dual spec system does specifically benefit the two true hybrids more than the other classes.

[Ingmar]

I think what he meant was "today I'm a priest, tomorrow I'm a death knight."  It doesn't benefit hybrid classes then, since anyone can be any class whenever, but the dual spec system does specifically benefit the two true hybrids more than the other classes.

Sooooort of. I find myself a little jealous of rogues who will be able have a PVE sec and a PVP spec and be good to go, whereas as a warrior I have my main tank spec to spend, and have to pick between a PVE dps spec and a PVP spec for my other spot.

[Valmorian]

I'd love to see an MMO out there where EVERY class had a viable tank, dps, or healing spec.  Sadly, we haven't evolved that far yet. 

Isn't DC Universe trying to take this route, where you can switch your focus between defensive/buff to offensive/debuff?

[kildorn]

I think what he meant was "today I'm a priest, tomorrow I'm a death knight."  It doesn't benefit hybrid classes then, since anyone can be any class whenever, but the dual spec system does specifically benefit the two true hybrids more than the other classes.

Sooooort of. I find myself a little jealous of rogues who will be able have a PVE sec and a PVP spec and be good to go, whereas as a warrior I have my main tank spec to spend, and have to pick between a PVE dps spec and a PVP spec for my other spot.

I want a raid spec, and a spec to switch to any time you inspect me.

[Nevermore]

I'd love to see an MMO out there where EVERY class had a viable tank, dps, or healing spec.  Sadly, we haven't evolved that far yet. 

Isn't DC Universe trying to take this route, where you can switch your focus between defensive/buff to offensive/debuff?

DCUO, from that one video I've seen, seems to be a mix of Guild Wars-like skill selection and stances that changes what skills you can use.  I don't think it uses static 'specs' so respeccing would just be a matter of swapping out the skills you bring to the mission.  Of course, I could be wrong.  Details are still sketchy.

[Lantyssa]

I didn't get the impression you got to choose the skills for the spec, though if it was Guild War's eight skills you choose, and you can have multiple specs/template to switch between anytime outside of combat, I would approve.

[El Gallo]

I think what he meant was "today I'm a priest, tomorrow I'm a death knight."  It doesn't benefit hybrid classes then, since anyone can be any class whenever, but the dual spec system does specifically benefit the two true hybrids more than the other classes.

That's what I meant. My dual specs are fury warrior and holy priest or whatever.

Even better, ditch talents, put the good ones into base class skills, balance, and then let me pick two classes.  Fuck talents, I've hated them since they were put in the beta (the super-early non-tree talents weren't as bad, but were boring).  I am really veering into fantasyland now, however.