Left 4 Dead

[Hindenburg]

Customization is vastly, vastly overrated.

[O Rly?

Damn, and here i was, thinking that those guys were making mad cash due to customization.

[Morfiend]

You seem to be under the impression that them having personalities somehow makes me gift a shit more about them.

Some games maybe, this one, nah, not so much. Dressup would actually be a step in the right direction. And maybe a list of names we can pick from.

I totally agree Schild.

While the concept for this game is cool, it really seems like there isn't that much game here, so having them give the option of like 20 names and 5 different voices wouldn't be that much to ask for. Let the players make their own characters, and then chose their name and voice. How hard would it be instead of having the npc say "Oh my god, save Bob" to say "Oh my god save '$NameVariablePlayerTwo'".

[BitWarrior]

While the concept for this game is cool, it really seems like there isn't that much game here, so having them give the option of like 20 names and 5 different voices wouldn't be that much to ask for. Let the players make their own characters, and then chose their name and voice. How hard would it be instead of having the npc say "Oh my god, save Bob" to say "Oh my god save '$NameVariablePlayerTwo'".

You increase the number of lines required to be recorded multiplied by however many names you provide. For asking Zoey to save you, you need 3 lines, one from each person there minus, obviously, Zoey herself. Right now you need 9 recordings for everyone to ask everyone by name to help them. Increase the number of potential names to 3, you have 4 characters saying 3 lines for 3 potential names, increasing the number of name-specific recordings required for that one line to 27.

Could you just have everyone record each name and use it every time? Sure - if you wanted it to sound like OK Computer and draw you out of the game. We obviously inflect, modify, and change our speech depending on the words surrounding it and the context, which is why those programs have never sounded fluid. You could do the [insert name here] idea, but it would sound like shit.

Is it worth it? To me it sure isn't. Call me bob, dick, harry, I don't give a shit. I've never been concerned that people called me Gordon Freemen while playing Half Life, or Mario when playing Mario. However, I guess if you're feel pretty raw about it...

Again, I just come from the mindset that customization is completely overrated. I bought the game to engage in an experience, not play dress up.

[schild]

Again, I just come from the mindset that customization is completely overrated. I bought the game to engage in an experience, not play dress up.

That's you. Customization is _not_ overrated. For every 1 person like you, there's a hundred that like playing dressup.

[Hindenburg]

Could you just have everyone record each name and use it every time? Sure - if you wanted it to sound like OK Computer and draw you out of the game. We obviously inflect, modify, and change our speech depending on the words surrounding it and the context, which is why those programs have never sounded fluid. You could do the [insert name here] idea, but it would sound like shit.

Or you'd just write the lines around a nonspecific name, and the other character would say something like "save me, you fucking cunt" (simulating what most people yell at healers in online games) while looking at you for a fleeting second.

You didn't sacrifice customization, and you didn't have to record a lot of lines. Can't really gauge immersion, since, to me, that shit is overrated.

[Morfiend]

See the thing is this.

The game is more about online multiplayer than singleplayer Half Life. I don't want to play as Bob over and over and over again. Especially for online multiplayer. For how small the game content is, I wont care about the "story experience" after the first time through I'll just want to shoot zombies.

[BitWarrior]

Could you just have everyone record each name and use it every time? Sure - if you wanted it to sound like OK Computer and draw you out of the game. We obviously inflect, modify, and change our speech depending on the words surrounding it and the context, which is why those programs have never sounded fluid. You could do the [insert name here] idea, but it would sound like shit.

Or you'd just write the lines around a nonspecific name, and the other character would say something like "save me, you fucking cunt" (simulating what most people yell at healers in online games) while looking at you for a fleeting second.

You didn't sacrifice customization, and you didn't have to record a lot of lines. Can't really gauge immersion, since, to me, that shit is overrated.

Oh for sure, you absolutely could do that, and basically repeat whats been done a hundred times before. Keep it generic, keep it unspecific, etc. Have a lot of "Hey, you...yeah, you" moments and such, shout out the simple "Ow!" recording, rather than "Dammit, Louis!". You could remove the ability to find who's doing well or who's griefing your team through natural ways, and just go for the simple and generic way of perhaps outputting the specific information in a chat box.

However, I don't think that was the design goal with this game.

[Hindenburg]

That's what nicknames are for.
Player 1 customizes his character, but his nickname is always Cuntfag.
Player 2 customizes his character, but his nickname is always Bobhope.

And so on, and so forth. There you go, now you can find who's doing well or who's griefing your team through "natural" ways, because, y'know, zombie apocalypses and HUD's sure are natural events.

Or just do it like mass effect, and force a last name which is always used, but let the gent pick a first name, although to me that's the same as saying no name at all.

[BitWarrior]

That's what nicknames are for.
Player 1 customizes his character, but his nickname is always Cuntfag.
Player 2 customizes his character, but his nickname is always Bobhope.

And so on, and so forth. There you go, now you can find who's doing well or who's griefing your team through "natural" ways, because, y'know, zombie apocalypses and HUD's sure are natural events.

Or just do it like mass effect, and force a last name which is always used, but let the gent pick a first name, although to me that's the same as saying no name at all.

Hmmm...you haven't played it yet, eh?

[fuser]

Why not use steam cloud to allow the user to customize their own audio prompts, ie: if the user has the mic for voicecom just allow the recording of your players 5-10 audio prompts or choose the stock ones. Just put an option box to disallow it like sprays on the server end, but it would provide awesome customization.

 

[Hindenburg]

Downloading. Fucking thing is coming at 50k/s.
I'll come here and admit any and all retardness and faux passes after it finishes.

[Modern Angel]

You guys are focusing on the fact that you can't customize your characters enough through voice acting in the best LAN party game to come down the pipes in three or four years? Seriously?

Incidentally, 100 stages (20 levels; you are playing 2 stages in the demo) and more characters coming. VS mode coming, as well.

[LK]

Again, I just come from the mindset that customization is completely overrated. I bought the game to engage in an experience, not play dress up.

That's you. Customization is _not_ overrated. For every 1 person like you, there's a hundred that like playing dressup.

I think Dead Rising proved that there is fun in dressing up during a zombie apocalypse.

[schild]

Incidentally, 100 stages (20 levels; you are playing 2 stages in the demo) and more characters coming. VS mode coming, as well.

No.

There are 4 campaigns with 5 levels each. That's 20 stages/levels/whatever you want to call it. You can actually see that from the menus on the PC Version.

You guys are focusing on the fact that you can't customize your characters enough through voice acting in the best LAN party game to come down the pipes in three or four years? Seriously?

It's an excellent game where there's no absolutely specific strategy due to randomness and we want to talk about it, customization is a valid point. I'm not seeing your problem with it.

[Big Gulp]

You guys are focusing on the fact that you can't customize your characters enough through voice acting in the best LAN party game to come down the pipes in three or four years? Seriously?

It's an excellent game where there's no absolutely specific strategy due to randomness and we want to talk about it, customization is a valid point. I'm not seeing your problem with it.

For that matter, who actually engages in LAN parties anymore?  This ain't Korea.  If I'm playing a multiplayer game it's likely over the intertubes.

[schild]

For that matter, who actually engages in LAN parties anymore?  This ain't Korea.  If I'm playing a multiplayer game it's likely over the intertubes.

Teenagers, college kids, and epeen types.

[lesion]

I resemble that comment. 34 HEADSHOTS WHAT YOU ONLY GOT 15 HUH

[Phire]

For that matter, who actually engages in LAN parties anymore?  This ain't Korea.  If I'm playing a multiplayer game it's likely over the intertubes.

Teenagers, college kids, and epeen types.

I think in order to see why they decided not to go the customized route we would have to play through the full game and see what kind of story, if any, Valve has put in the game. If it is very focused on the characters personalities and has a good story behind it then sure I would say it is better to have gone that way. If the game is lacking in both of those areas then you guys have a case for asking why isn't there an option to customize your character.

To me its a FPS so my characters looks have zero effect on the game and I think it might actually take you out of the 'game world' if you had a bunch of pink trannies running around killing zombies. I don't think that was the intention Valve had in mind. Sort of the same reason you can't customize your character in TF2, Counter-Strike and so on.

[Xuri]

For that matter, who actually engages in LAN parties anymore?  This ain't Korea.  If I'm playing a multiplayer game it's likely over the intertubes.

Office-workers who should be doing other, more productive stuff.

Also, what's the endgame like in this game? Is it all just PvE raids? Also - can we sit in chairs? I want player housing, and permanent death.

[Modern Angel]

Office-workers who should be doing other, more productive stuff.

This. Lunch time is a raucous shouting match about zombies. It has nothing to do with epeen and everything to do with asking your buddies to come over with their laptops.

Some games are just fun for the sake of being fun. Some games you're left wanting more. I'm not exactly sure how customization would make a game about shooting zombies for an hour with a few friends somehow more fun when it's not geared to be anything more.

Of course people also wrote Portal fanfic here when the game just "was" so maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree here.

[Samwise]

TF2 has convinced me that pre-defined characters with individual personalities are a lot better than superficially customizable characters that all talk and act the same.  At least in team-based FPSes where you're spending a lot of time looking at each other's avatars and have relatively few ways to make them "emote".

I get a lot more entertainment out of the character-specific banter during the game ("God dammit, Francis, check your fire!") than I would out of putting different hats on some nameless dude.  And I say this as someone who LOVES putting hats on people.

Now, if they had a way to customize the zombies, Romero-style, with the occasional random zombie wearing clown makeup and holding tambourines and shit?  I'd be all over that, and it wouldn't require them to re-record every piece of dialogue a thousand times.

[schild]

I get a lot more entertainment out of the character-specific banter during the game ("God dammit, Francis, check your fire!") than I would out of putting different hats on some nameless dude.  And I say this as someone who LOVES putting hats on people.

Other than the fact, like most zombie movies, the dialogue sucks, and frankly, the banter is only REALLY useful when you're playing single player. With multiple people, 9 times out of 10 the person will say what the toon is gonna say before he says it.

It's redundant and adds so little after your 10th game or so.

[Falconeer]

The whole thing is based on zombie movies since the ground up. It IS a zombie movie. Customization would contradict that design/artistical decision.

My short on the game: Atari's Gauntlet with 3D, zombies and Valve. What's not to like? Win.

[NiX]

I don't get the big deal about this game not having customization considering you stare at your hands for a majority of the game. If it'll make you feel any better why don't you load up Sims 2, make your L4D character, pretend it's in L4D and play. It really just seems like you're all complaining for the sake of complaining and I know that's how F13 is, but at some point you have to look back and think "Wow, I'm a fucking idiot for thinking not being able to put a Hawaiian shirt on my character detracts from a game about surviving a zombie apocalypse."

Also, I'm sure Turtle Rock didn't have the man power or budget for customization. By the time Valve got their hands on L4D, I'm sure they didn't want to re-write the entire game just for something that changes nothing about the core game play.

[schild]

I don't get the big deal about this game not having customization. You stare at your hands for a majority of the game. Load up Sims 2, make your L4D character, pretend it's in L4D and play. Sweet god you people complain for the sake of complaining and I know that's how F13 is, but at some point you have to look back and think "Wow, I'm a fucking idiot for thinking not being able to put a Hawaiian shirt on my character detracts from a game about surviving a zombie apocalypse."

Also, I'd like to point out that I'm sure Turtle Rock didn't have the man power or budget for customization. By the time Valve got their hands on L4D, I'm sure they didn't want to re-write the entire game just for something that changes nothing about the core game play.

Your second point is decent, but frankly, if I'm going to be playing with randoms and friends - point being, lots of different people - it'd be really fucking cool if they all had some sort of uniqueness - as in, it's always a bunch of strangers surviving the zombie apocalypse. Not the same four fucking people Every Single Time.

In other words, you missed the fucking point. Everyone being a little (a lot) more unique, would've really brought it CLOSER to a zombie movie. And it's possible Valve will add that. I just wanted to make the presence known that it would be a great feature.

[Samwise]

Other than the fact, like most zombie movies, the dialogue sucks, and frankly, the banter is only REALLY useful when you're playing single player. With multiple people, 9 times out of 10 the person will say what the toon is gonna say before he says it.

I play with voice turned off most of the time because most people are cockweasels.   

[Yegolev]

Maybe we can import our 360 Miis as avatars.  I'll have one of the many that resemble Hitler.

[Phire]

In other words, you missed the fucking point. Everyone being a little (a lot) more unique, would've really brought it CLOSER to a zombie movie. And it's possible Valve will add that. I just wanted to make the presence known that it would be a great feature.

Most people would make the most outrageous looking characters (Especially since you yourself do not have to see what you look like) and this would really take you out of the moment. Like I said you will see people in all pink, guys with woman's clothing, 'insert theme here' clothing and it just wouldn't fit the environment and theme of the game. If you played the Battlefield Heroes demo you would know how ridiculous some characters can look.

You probably never complained about TF2, CS, Call of Duty, or Resistance having a lack of character customization so why start here?

[Samwise]

Dude, TF2 would be totally awesomer if you could make the Heavy look like the Scout and the Scout look like the Engineer, except wearing berets.  Everyone would be all like WTF.   

[Yegolev]

Phire is right, specifically about me.  Remember my PotBS beta character?  Hell, even my release one was "colorful".  My avatar in Saint's Row 1 and 2 is a great example of why I should not be allowed to customize characters.  Xtreme Customization is one of the main reasons I like LBP so much.  Finally, having the ability to put your own face on your character in Rainbow 6: Vegas was a horrible, horrible gateway to things that should not have been.

[Yoru]

Zombie shooter staffed with Hitlers and Crackwhores? Dude, where do I sign up? 

[schild]

Dude, TF2 would be totally awesomer if you could make the Heavy look like the Scout and the Scout look like the Engineer, except wearing berets.  Everyone would be all like WTF.  

You probably never complained about TF2, CS, Call of Duty, or Resistance having a lack of character customization so why start here?

Both of you are making stupid points that don't make sense. Sorry to be so blunt, but here, might as well explain why since you somehow thing it was an argument.

1. Team Fortress and Counterstrike relied on 2 teams defined by how they look for another pack of players to identify them upon site. These are human versus human players, and even more than CS, Team Fortress relied on balance. Not only that but mechanics like the Spy would crumble if customization was around. I never asked for customization in these because it would be _stupid_.

2. Call of Duty and Resistance are another set of situations where customization would've taken away from the game/end result. Particularly Resistance. Call of Duty on the otherhand had some of the most robust weapon customization in the industry. It's just superb.

Left 4 Dead is a game about zombies versus humans. At the very least, they could've had 10 or so outfits for each character and not have had to have changed anything. It's purely a scenery/flair thing, but that shit goes a long way. And if you don't think Valve has the manpower to do such a thing - you're mad.

I don't like comparing apples and oranges, so don't make me do that again.

Most people would make the most outrageous looking characters (Especially since you yourself do not have to see what you look like) and this would really take you out of the moment. Like I said you will see people in all pink, guys with woman's clothing, 'insert theme here' clothing and it just wouldn't fit the environment and theme of the game. If you played the Battlefield Heroes demo you would know how ridiculous some characters can look.

Battlefield Heroes characters are ridiculous because they allowed it. Valve wouldn't have to. Really, I can't believe I'm arguing with you. That paragraph was stupid. I didn't say everyone should get a tophat and have a mask to look like GladOS. Jesus, don't be insane.

The insanity of character customization is defined by what is even offered in any sort of customization. I'm pretty sure Valve could stem any such problem pretty much immediately with a slew of pre-set outfits or a lack of color options.

Fuck. Now I'm angry because you think way too in the fucking box.

[NiX]

You're just starting down a trek of complaints that carry no merit. You think a couple differing pieces of clothing would be awesome, then the next guy thinks there should be more and someone else thinks there should be more eccentric choices. Now Valve has to listen to a bunch of prissy mouthbreathers who want to play dolly. In a zombie shooter no less.

[Valmorian]

The insanity of character customization is defined by what is even offered in any sort of customization. I'm pretty sure Valve could stem any such problem pretty much immediately with a slew of pre-set outfits or a lack of color options.

Fuck. Now I'm angry because you think way too in the fucking box.

Heh, I just like that "too much customization" is "thinking in the box" here.  Ultimately, though, I'm not seeing that customization of characters is anything most people playing this game are going to care about.  I get the feeling you want this game to be something more than what it is, say an instanced Zombie-FPS-MMO.

[Prospero]

I like the defined characters myself, I don't need to fight zombie hordes with Ace Ventura in a pink tutu.

I'm really looking forward to versus mode. I think the campaign mode will be entertaining for a good while, but I think versus mode is where the longevity will be.