Plot-Spoilerless Fallout Gameplay Discussion

[Yegolev]

I have noticed that bullets don't travel in a perfectly straight line as if this was a FPS, so non-VATS aiming isn't foolproof.  It's better in some situations, though, such as the sniper rifle and the totally-awesome scoped Magnum.  On the other hand, using a hunting rifle outside of VATS is all sorts of bad.

Edit to say there is a zoom button which is LT on the 360.  This uses the scope if you have one.

[Koyasha]

It definitely still depends on skill allocation to a considerable degree.  Seems like in non-VATS mode you've got an invisible cone of fire.  Exact same shot, several times, different hit locations.  Not sure I like that system, I'd prefer one where the cone of fire is visible so you can see the improvement.  Or similar to sniping in Mass Effect where your reticle waves all over the place unless you have enough skill to steady the shot - but if you hit the button just when the reticle is over the target, it's going to hit.

[Yoru]

There's definitely a cone of fire, but I'm not sure if it actually shrinks as your skill goes up. The effect is rather blatant with the laser pistol, since you get a nice big tracer each time.

[Morfiend]

There's definitely a cone of fire, but I'm not sure if it actually shrinks as your skill goes up. The effect is rather blatant with the laser pistol, since you get a nice big tracer each time.

It does shrink. I did the "minetown" quest on my first character that had small guns of around 50 at the time, and I could easily take out the mines with one or maybe two bullets. On my second character that is Energy Weapons, when doing the quest, I used my pistol to shoot the mines to conserve energy ammo, and on average it took me 5 to 7 bullets to kill a mine because I was constantly missing.

[Yegolev]

Shoot mines... I fired at one a few times before I said "fuck it", then just ran up and grabbed it.  There's no cone of fire on my hand, bitches!

[Lantyssa]

It definitely still depends on skill allocation to a considerable degree.  Seems like in non-VATS mode you've got an invisible cone of fire.  Exact same shot, several times, different hit locations.  Not sure I like that system, I'd prefer one where the cone of fire is visible so you can see the improvement.  Or similar to sniping in Mass Effect where your reticle waves all over the place unless you have enough skill to steady the shot - but if you hit the button just when the reticle is over the target, it's going to hit.

I would prefer the Mass Effect system, too.  It feels more natural to me.  The sniper rifle has it, so I wonder if it could be modded in.  Remove cone of fire, but add drift.

[lac]

Shoot mines... I fired at one a few times before I said "fuck it", then just ran up and grabbed it.  There's no cone of fire on my hand, bitches!

Grabbing mines is OP, hear one activate? Circle around while spamming e. Sure win.
Baby carriages get me every time. If you have toddlers and you hear a baby cry your first response is to remove the headphones or hit mute on your speaker system. Wrong move.

[Yegolev]

Carriage got me one time, being the first time, because I was like "The hell... a baby?  Wow, that's a fucked-up looking baby-- DAMMIT!"  I now view all carriages as suspect.

[stark]

It definitely still depends on skill allocation to a considerable degree.  Seems like in non-VATS mode you've got an invisible cone of fire.  Exact same shot, several times, different hit locations.  Not sure I like that system, I'd prefer one where the cone of fire is visible so you can see the improvement.  Or similar to sniping in Mass Effect where your reticle waves all over the place unless you have enough skill to steady the shot - but if you hit the button just when the reticle is over the target, it's going to hit.

I would prefer the Mass Effect system, too.  It feels more natural to me.  The sniper rifle has it, so I wonder if it could be modded in.  Remove cone of fire, but add drift.

Try shooting with a crippled arm or head, viola targeting drift.

[sinij]

I found I couldn't play F3 in FPS mode - it is just too easy to run out of ammo. VATS if anything is an ammo-save mode.

Oddly repair skill is how you carry more loot - fixing anything and everything you get will increase its value, so 3 nearly-broken hunting rifles will cost only fraction of fully-repaired. It also punishes you heavily if you use anything but what your enemies are using - you will have to shell out astronomical cash on NPC-repair if you happen to use anything but common-drop weapons.

[Strazos]

I too hate cone of fire in most games. I deal with it in Fallout because it's not primarily a shooter....

But shit like Counter-Strike? Fuck that, how am I supposed to have a reasonable chance to know where my shot is going if my reticle does not move, but my shots do? Just give me the drift and force me to  compensate.

[Rasix]

Remove cone of fire, but add drift.

HATE DRIFT.  HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE.

I like sniping in this game.  I aim at head; I shoot; head goes pop.

[Yoru]

I found I couldn't play F3 in FPS mode - it is just too easy to run out of ammo. VATS if anything is an ammo-save mode.

Oddly repair skill is how you carry more loot - fixing anything and everything you get will increase its value, so 3 nearly-broken hunting rifles will cost only fraction of fully-repaired. It also punishes you heavily if you use anything but what your enemies are using - you will have to shell out astronomical cash on NPC-repair if you happen to use anything but common-drop weapons.

Find the unique versions of the various weapons and you'll be all . Lincoln's Repeater is awesome; does ridiculous damage, incredibly accurate, reloads quickly and repairs using hunting rifles.

Unless you prefer to use the laser chaingun or plasma rifles; then you're just fucked.

[schild]

laser chaingun

Pool of blood, Shadowclaw Sanctuary.

plasma rifles

Android quest, proper answers.

What, it's plot spoilerless 

[Yoru]

You still have to repair the fuckers and find ammo. I have something like 800 5.56mm rounds at level 10 despite using the assault rifle fairly heavily and maybe 120 microfusion cells despite never firing a shot.

[schild]

You still have to repair the fuckers and find ammo. I have something like 800 5.56mm rounds at level 10 despite using the assault rifle fairly heavily and maybe 120 microfusion cells despite never firing a shot.

Ah, I see.

Well, Enclave soldiers drop plasma rifles. Mine is almost always at full, because they hunt me pretty hardcore.

The laser chaingun I never use so I'd never notice. I don't even pick up miniguns anymore.

[shiznitz]

I tried to map weapons to the 1-8 keys last night and it didn't work. The pipboy showed that it was mapped but hitting the key didn't do anything.

[Bunk]

For those who asked about mods: http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/categories.php

It's still early, only a few of the Oblivion tools work as is, but there are already texture mods, some attempts at extending the level cap, and a few other tweaks.

One that makes Lady Killer/Black Widow open to both genders for example.


Anyone else notice that you can hold down "Z" to pick up objects like you could in Oblivion? I plan on trying to re-enact the Arnold escalator sequence from Total Recal and seeing if dead Maruaders stop bullets.

[Sky]

They teach you to pick up objects in the tutorial :) But yeah, I forgot until you just mentioned it.

I ended up taking the Scavenger perk for more ammo, now I'm well-stocked with assault rifle and shotgun ammo and have enough sniper ammo to open combat with and take out things like super mutants with rocket launchers on high perches (bastid).

[Tebonas]

Does anybody know what makes Skills go down one point or did I run into a bug? Because suddenly Science and Repair are down to 99.

[Hindenburg]

Radiation affects stats. Might be it.

[Tebonas]

Seems my Lucky 8-Ball was bugged. Removed it from the inventory, took it back, and now everything is fine again.

[Lantyssa]

Remove cone of fire, but add drift.

HATE DRIFT.  HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE.

I like sniping in this game.  I aim at head; I shoot; head goes pop.

The sniper rifle has drift.  It has a pretty small cone of fire though.  It's ideally how I would like all weapons.  Now if I could get ammo for it in any decent quantity...

If I knew how to do the mods, I think would I would go for is a cone of fire when firing from the hip, but move to the more accurate shot with drift when aiming.  Higher skill means less drift, so when maxxed your hands are steady as a surgeon's.  (Maybe make high medicine help!)

[Rasix]

The sniper rifle has drift.

Are you sure? I snipe a lot and don't even notice any. 

[Lantyssa]

Do you have a high skill in small guns?  That might be why.  I had something in the teens and it was terrible at anything beyond 50 yards.

[Warskull]

Str: It gives you 10lbs per strength, a pretty nice bonus.  You don't need to go crazy pumping it, but having 5-6 gives you a ton of benefit.  You can fit an easy 300+ caps in 60lbs.  A little helpful for melee builds.

Perception: Not really that good.  Either use it as a dump or invest 5 (and get the bobblehead) for better criticals.  The radar is goofy anyway.

Endurance: Useful if you go for an unarmed build, otherwise a worthless stat.  The only reason you invest in this is because you need 5 endurance for the strong back and toughness perks, which are overall excellent perks.

Cha: The ultimate dump stat in this game, it has barely any affect outside of getting you skill points and all the perks tied to it suck.

Int: The big daddy stat, you want 9 and you want that bobblehead fast.  A 10int character will gain 100 more stat points than a 5 int character over the course of the game.  You make up any losses in skills that interest you in two levels.

Agility: +2 AP per point, not amazing, but not terrible.  You really want to hit 6 points to grab action boy.


Luck: Surprisingly good, 1% chance to crit per point.  You need to get 6 for that better criticals perk (which is amazing.)

Skills:
Repair is huge, the most important skill in the game.  If you use repair to fix two weapons into one, that single weapon is worth more than the two combined (as long as you didn't hit your repair cap) and takes up much less space.  Repair converts that heavy raider armor into a single 15 weight item that nets you 150 caps. 

Lockpick and Science aren't necessary, but I highly recommend hitting at least 75% (maxing them out is best) at least one play through.  You get more out of the game if you can pick all the locks and hack all the computers. 

Small arms is the best combat choice due to the huge amount of great weapons available, but swapping to energy weapons late game is an option.  Plus a number of the small arms unique weapons are monstrously good.  Chinese assault rifles are more dangerous than most other weapons and a handful of pulse grenades can handle any robot issues for you.

Speech opens up a lot of options for you and "Lying Congressional Style" is pretty easy to find.  It is useful if you are playing good karma, but not needed at all if you are playing bad karma.

Each skill has a bobblehead for +10, and 25 books (one of them only has 24, but I forget which one.)  Each stat has a +1 boblehead.  Stats can never exceed 10 and skills can never exceed 100.

Minmaxing is the enemy of Roleplaying. If you minmax you will always have it easier, but you can't balance a game around that. I will go farther than that and say you shouldn't. Go die in a Mmogfire until you learn to play games properly again.

Min/Maxing is just analyzing the system and playing it to its fullest.  If a game cannot handle a player min/maxing it, it is simple a bad game.  Things don't need to be perfectly balanced either, a smart player will figure out "path A is the best" pretty fast.  All you have to do is sprinkle interesting options and play styles along the other paths in a single player RPG.  They may not be the best, but people will try them anyway.  Role playing games can't rely on the player being terrible, just as they can't rely on the player doing "build x because it is really the best."

[taolurker]

For those who asked about mods: http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/categories.php

It's still early, only a few of the Oblivion tools work as is, but there are already texture mods, some attempts at extending the level cap, and a few other tweaks.

I found a really useful tweak guide if you want to try and fix performance, mod or wanted the basics of Console Commands.

[Tebonas]

Min/Maxing is just analyzing the system and playing it to its fullest.  If a game cannot handle a player min/maxing it, it is simple a bad game.  Things don't need to be perfectly balanced either, a smart player will figure out "path A is the best" pretty fast.  All you have to do is sprinkle interesting options and play styles along the other paths in a single player RPG.  They may not be the best, but people will try them anyway.  Role playing games can't rely on the player being terrible, just as they can't rely on the player doing "build x because it is really the best."

All roleplayers are aware what a Munchkin is. But typically most Munchkins revel in the knowledge that they beat the system. What I don't get is the moaning that the system is too easy and should be harder because they played it.

Its ok to find the best path, its not ok to tweak the game so its the only valid one.

[Surlyboi]

Min/maxing is for lifeless douches.

Yeah, I said it.

[Miasma]

I actually got a blue screen of death while playing yesterday, I haven't seen one of those in many years, I didn't even know they existed in Vista.

[shiznitz]

Is The Family always aggressive towards you? I had just gone neutral from good so I wondered. That was a tough fight at level 5 with only 55 small guns. I prevailed eventually by preparing the battlefield (i.e. mining the shit out of it) beforehand. It also sucks that all the good loot in there is a karma hit. Those fuckers attacked me first.

[Tebonas]

To answer spoilerless - no.

I was good and we came to an agreement without bloodshed.

[Murgos]

Min/maxing is for lifeless douches.

You're confused.

Gun A hits for 6 points.  Gun B hits for 20 points, looks way cooler and has flashing lights and calls you sugar when you kill someone with it.  You take gun B, right?

Stat 1 has an unnoticeable change on the way you play the game.  Stat 2, once you reach the threshold, makes people heads explode when you squish them between your fingers.  You take stat two, right?

So, are you a min-maxxer or are you just playing the game and going by the obvious clues and progression path put there by the designers for you to enjoy?

The real issue isn't making characters that are competent because the corollary is that you would have to play incompetently to play correctly.

[Koyasha]

Generally in my experience, min/maxing tends to go more along the lines of squeezing out an extra 0.3% performance by making the exact right choices.  In fallout 3 this might go something along the lines of:

Make sure you start with 9 INT, get the INT bobblehead before you get to level 3.  Since each skill has 25 skill books available, plus a bobblehead that increases it by 10, make sure no skill is ever raised above 65 with points (unless you've raised them all to 65 and still have points left over, in which case you probably need to reallocate stats away from INT to push the min/max envelope and not 'waste' anything).  Calculate the best route to go all around the world and pick up the skill books and bobbleheads asap.  And so on, and so forth.

It doesn't mean 'use what is obviously better', instead it's all about going into the effort to figure out exactly what IS better when it's not obvious, and squeeze all you can get out of it.

That said, I don't agree it's 'for lifeless douches', since it can be fun, but not really in a single-player story or exploration based RPG.  And then there's the people that see something sub-optimal and MUST MAKE IT BETTER.  I get that feeling sometimes.

[rattran]

In which case, don't read a book until you get the '2 skill points per book' perk, then never raise a skill above 40. You can max everything!