Plot-Spoilerless Fallout Gameplay Discussion

[Kitsune]

So, just for the sake of being able to talk about a nice, hardy min-maxing without fear of seeing a spoiler by accident, I'm putting this here.

Stat Stuff:

Strength - As the game goes on, I routinely found myself cursing the lack of more carrying capacity, forcing me to occasionally drop lucrative goodies at strength 5.  As far as future planning goes on this stat, the perk that lets you carry extra weight has a requirement of Strength 5, so if you start under 5, be ready to raise it up to compensate.

Perception - Being able to see distant enemies on the compass is a very very nice thing, and you need perception 6 for a few useful gun perks down the road.

Endurance - I made sacrifices in endurance to boost other stats.  Being a bit squishier is, to me, an acceptable price for higher intelligence and agility.

Charisma - I left it at 5.

Intelligence - Started at 8, boosted it to 9 ASAP.  Skill points are mother, skill points are father.

Agility - Also started this one at 8.  As with the old Fallouts, the more action points available the better off you are, as long as you're using the VATS system.  Which you should be.  A higher agility can make the difference between getting off one more shot or being a teensy bit short, and one more shot is always good.  The boost to Small Arms didn't hurt any, either.

Luck - Luck's an odd duck.  If you raise it to 7, you'll get an extra point in every skill.  If you raise it to 9, you'll get a second.  That's 13 skill points per two points in the stat, in addition to boosted chances of critting.  Intelligence gives more skill points per stat point, but no help with crits.


Perk Stuff:

Swift Learner and Here and Now: Suck.  Don't waste perks on leveling faster, 'cause you'll still hit a wall at level 20, and then those perks won't do you a bit of good.

Educated and Intense Training (Intelligence): Get both of these ASAP.  The two perks together get you four extra skill points per level, and since the points aren't retroactive, you're best served by taking these perks as soon as they're available.

Ladykiller/Black Widow and Child at Heart: These are both fun and useful perks, opening unique dialogue trees with people that will get you valuable information, on top of some amusing dialogue.  In the case of Ladykiller and Black Widow, the damage bonus certainly doesn't hurt at all, either.

Comprehension: Double the skill point gain from reading books, what's not to love?  Hold off on reading any books you find until you have this perk.  (The comic book you get in the opening part of the game will vanish from your inventory if you don't read it ASAP, so go ahead and read that one before having the perk.  Save the rest.)


Random other things:

How the fuck do I repair stuff?:  This was not explained worth a damn by the manual.  You need multiple items to repair things.  For example, if you want to repair your seen-better-days 10mm pistol, you select it, open the repair screen, and use other 10mm pistols to repair your best one.  This destroys the 'donor' pistols, so be sure you're repairing your highest-quality item with your lowest-quality items rather than vice-versa!  In some cases, similar items quality for the purposes of repair.  If you find a special pistol, for example, normal pistols of the same caliber may be eligible as spare parts for it.

Hacking: Remember that Mastermind game with the colored pegs?  The hacking minigame is essentially identical.  You pick a word, and the minigame tells you how many letters are correct and in the correct location.  The latter part is very significant.  If you pick THEM and it says that 0/4 letters are right, that doesn't rule out METH from being the password.  Even though they have the same letters, the game will only count a letter as correct if it's in the correct position as well.  There are also super sekret things you can click on in the computer screen that will undo a failed guess.  Look for random garbage enclosed in brackets, something like (FGD32AD_//*).  If you move your mouse over it and it lights up, it's a sekret bonus that you can click on.

Bobbleheads: If you see a Vault Boy bobblehead doll, it's not just decoration, pick it up.

Dialogue: If you have a high stat, it will sometimes allow for bonus dialogue options.  If you see a dialogue option preceded by a stat name in parenthesis, odds are that it's a good one to choose, leading to a better outcome of the conversation.

[Morfiend]

Good info. Wish I knew some of this before starting.

As far as Karma goes, does this really have any point beside what followers you can get, and generally what story arc you follow?

Oh yeah, any tips on Stealthing? I seem to never be able to stealth close to NPCs. My stealth is 55 and I am level 9.

[Nevermore]

Thanks for posting that, it's going to help a lot when I start up playing this weekend!   

[kildorn]

Good info. Wish I knew some of this before starting.

As far as Karma goes, does this really have any point beside what followers you can get, and generally what story arc you follow?

Oh yeah, any tips on Stealthing? I seem to never be able to stealth close to NPCs. My stealth is 55 and I am level 9.

Lower your weight, wear clothing (not armor), and light levels matter a lot. Plus, the game likes to completely FUCK you via millions of cans and bottles on every flat surface.

[Kitsune]

Lower your weight, wear clothing (not armor), and light levels matter a lot. Plus, the game likes to completely FUCK you via millions of cans and bottles on every flat surface.

What he said.  Also, you have a flashlight in your PipBoy, activated in the PC version by holding down the tab key.  Make sure it's turned off, because the game treats that light like, well, like someone trying to be stealthy with a flashlight.

Much like Oblivion, stealth is tricky in Fallout.  If you have a clear line of sight to a target and they haven't seen you yet, take the shot.  Otherwise they're likely to spot you in a second or two.  Sniping from a distance with a rifle is much more liable to work than sneaking up on someone with a knife.  If you're trying to get close, make sure you're walking rather than running; the game is very harsh on being sneaky while moving faster than a crawl.

I've found that using VATS is poor for sniping; a shot that you can make fairly easily just by aiming by hand will have like a 15% chance to hit if you try to use VATS for it.  I've one-shotted raiders from a couple hundred feet away with a scopeless hunting rifle.

[Lantyssa]

Comprehension: Double the skill point gain from reading books, what's not to love?  Hold off on reading any books you find until you have this perk.  (The comic book you get in the opening part of the game will vanish from your inventory if you don't read it ASAP, so go ahead and read that one before having the perk.  Save the rest.)

The comic will be in your dresser after Amata wakes you.  You don't need to read it when you get it.

For my second character, I gave myself a 9 Int, then picked up the Intelligence bobble-head.  With only a little bit of side-tracking, I had it by level four along with the Educated perk.  That way I only lost out on two skill points, however it meant a point I could spend elsewhere at creation.

Location if wanting to go that route:

[rattran]

For sneak, also you need to remember to Walk, not Run (hold down the shift key to Walk) The 'Silent Running' perk is supposed to mitigate moving as a cause of sneak breaking, but it didn't seem to work. Also, having a heavier weapon seems to hurt sneak, as does having a weapon out. And guns make noise when fired, except the Silenced 10mm and the Dart Gun.

[Yegolev]

Don't make a stat above 9 in creation or by perk.  The cap of 10 is a hard one which cannot be penetrated by bobblehead.  Well, you can make a stat 10 if you are not going to bother raising it with bobbleheads or Intense Training.

I have no idea what Karma does, except it might determine who is hunting you.  I notice that you have to do a lot of work to undo your karma set while growing up in the Vault.

If an equipped item goes to zero condition, it will stay equipped but cannot be reequipped if removed.  Remember this if you use any +skill armor.

[Goreschach]

Having dicked around with the game for a bit, I can say this about the stats:

Strength: Crap stat. Carry weight is nice, but str just doesn't give enough increase to be worthwhile. You have a base 150, plus 10 per str. This means that a 1 str character will have 160 carry weight, and a 10 250. Your sidekick can carry shit for you, anyway. Unarmed/melee is a joke in this game, anyway. I suppose one might want to start with 3-4, get it to 5 and pick up strong back. It's easier to just dump it.

Perception: Average. If you're using guns(you're using guns) then you'll want 6 for some of the nice perks. From what I can tell, however, perception doesn't do much, or anything, for you beyond a straight skill boost to some shooting skills. You can just compensate for these with more int, so going past 6 isn't worth it.

Endurance: This is not Fallout. Endurance is huge in this game. The one caveat being that you're not playing on easy with a tweaked out build that makes you A-#1, regardless. Your base starting hp is 100 plus 20 per end. That means a 1 end person starts with 120 hp, and a 10 starts with 300. Since hp boosts per level are rather small, buffing endurance provides a huge bonus.  It also gives some nice bonuses to some resistances. You want at least 5 for some nice perks. Put your leftovers here.

Charisma: Crap stat. It doesn't give you more sidekick slots like the originals, and the meager skill bonuses bonuses you can more than make up for with more int. Apparently it affects how much people like you, but neutral is for suckers so past around level 5 or so people are still going to think you're either Cotton Candy Jesus or RoboHitler Satan, so it doesn't matter. Dump it.

Intelligence: 10.

Agility: This is not Fallout. Agility is crap in this game. You start with a base 65 ap, and get 2(!) per point of agility. However, if you're using guns(you are), you'll probably still want to get it to 6 at some point, to pick up some nice perks.

Luck: Average. Sniper isn't the godmode it was in the originals, and I think luck has little or nothing to do with random encounters. Still, you'll want 6 for some nice perks.

[Strazos]

You're at least 50% wrong. RTFM?

[Miasma]

I just started with a melee focused character, trying to hit something without using vats is almost pointless.  You can be standing on top of them and not connect, or they constantly block, your swing is always being deflected off of walls and furniture, npcs practically circle strafe you and then when you do manage to connect you do pathetic damage compared to vats mode.  I don't know if it's the same with guns, haven't fired one yet.

Don't make a stat above 9 in creation or by perk.  The cap of 10 is a hard one which cannot be penetrated by bobblehead.  Well, you can make a stat 10 if you are not going to bother raising it with bobbleheads or Intense Training.

Oh, that's why that bobblehead in my inventory does nothing.  I haven't gone too far so I can go and change it.  And on that note and without spoiling anything if you didn't like any of the appearance/skill choices you made you get one final chance to change them early on after the first set of events.  You should save your game at that moment and remember not to delete it if you want to replay the game later with a different build, unless you want to go through the first bit again.

[Strazos]

My guy has under 20 in melee, and can kill mutants just fine - 2 hits in VATS, and 2 more when they're running away because I crippled their weapon and gave them an uppercut swing to the balls.

[Litigator]

I have to say, the carry-weight mechanic in Fallout 3 may be reminiscent of the earlier (10 year old) games, but it has no place in a modern game.  Personally, I think a mantra of game design should be that anything that is neither challenging nor fun should be removed or streamlined. 

The carry-weight mechanic in Fallout 3 does not make the game more challenging in the way that a restriction on the number of guns you can carry in a traditional FPS might.  Instead, it essentially a restriction on how much junk you can mule around to sell to the vendor, without having to leave the dungeon, fast travel back to dump the crap, and then return to the dungeon to loot more stuff.  Essentially, you have to choose between letting loot rot and making annoying trips to town to sell junk. 

In an overall worse game, I might accuse the devs of trying to pad the game length.  I think Fallout 3 is largely very good though, and I expect it was kept this way to stay faithful to the originals.  I disagree with some of you, in that I think this game feels like Fallout, in a good way.  But hewing too close to the original has its own problems.

I also think the SPECIAL system is a little flawed.  It was always a little problematic and its interaction with this game makes it moreso.  First of all some skills are really good, and some skills are really bad.  Barter, for example, seems to be junk. Money is very easy in this game, and big ticket items are affordable even without barter.  For the same reasons, the perks for bonus caps and ammo suck.

Similarly, division of weapons into small, big and energy really seems to deprive the game of a logical progression in weapons.  If you invest skills and perks in small guns, there seems to be limited benefit to using anything else, which means you use primarily the same hunting and assault rifles the entire game.  Either you decide you want to be the minigun dude or the pewpew laser dude, or else you just get small guns and sniper/commando and make people's heads explode.

One of the problems with Fallout, not just this game, but the concept, is that the freedom it gives you is going to be incredibly difficult to balance difficulty around.  For example, if a weakling (low Strength/End/Agi, stacking Int/Charisma) can complete the game, or a player taking non-combat perks can complete the game, then a player who specs for combat will be a walking buzz-saw of death.  It seems very difficult and resource-intensive to make equally fleshed-out rewarding paths for players who engage in combat and players who avoid it. As a result, these games have not been difficult. 

I've been playing WoW for a while, and the sort of attitude of finely honing your character development becomes in an MMO like that really just allows you to blow single-player RPGs out of the water.


   

[Strazos]

Actually, quite a few of the weapon perks are useful to multiple weapon types; IE commando is good for small arms rifles, and also energy rifles. Prolly large big guns weapons as well.

[Litigator]

Actually, quite a few of the weapon perks are useful to multiple weapon types; IE commando is good for small arms rifles, and also energy rifles. Prolly large big guns weapons as well.

I did not think those perks worked for energy weapons.

[Strazos]

It's not over-powering, but I BELIEVE it works. I saw a difference in VATS between my laser pistol and laser rifle. I'll check again.

[Ingmar]

Actually, quite a few of the weapon perks are useful to multiple weapon types; IE commando is good for small arms rifles, and also energy rifles. Prolly large big guns weapons as well.

I did not think those perks worked for energy weapons.

Confirm they work across skills. I'm not sure about for big weapons though.

[Khaldun]

Similarly, division of weapons into small, big and energy really seems to deprive the game of a logical progression in weapons.  If you invest skills and perks in small guns, there seems to be limited benefit to using anything else, which means you use primarily the same hunting and assault rifles the entire game.  Either you decide you want to be the minigun dude or the pewpew laser dude, or else you just get small guns and sniper/commando and make people's heads explode.

   

I'm not seeing the problem here. It comes down a bit to an aesthetic difference, and maybe to a harmonious blend of the build choices you've made. It's an incentive in that sense to play through a couple of times, to see what happens if you're a STR/END guy who uses a Shishkebab. (Has anyone tried being a low INT/low CHA to see what the dialogue trees are like? Do you ever get the amusing "dumb-guy" truncated dialogue trees you got in Fallout?)

If progression was from small guns to miniguns to pewpew energy weapons, why would that be better? I like instead that you run across different enemies who have different weapons preferences, and that your character can't use everything with equal facility or isn't locked into a single min-max weapon progression.

[Shrike]

If you're using VATS with the minigun, you're missing the point of this weapon. I mean, yeah, it's fun to watch shell casings pour out of the thing's ejection port in slow-mo, but the weapon is at its best when you're getting charged by 4-6 super mutants and you just obliterate them with a wall of lead. No real need for precise aim with a bullet hose. Sniper kiills, though...brings back those old Fallout memories--like killing Frog Morton with one shot clear across the screen. "You said what? Yeah, I thought so."

Otherwise, it's pretty close to the feel of the originals. Ammunition management was a big part of Fallout 1 and 2, and it is here as well. Better have more than one (really about three to four) irons in your fire. I agree with the constant to-ing and fro-ing to vendors to dump junk. Something that could have been cut from 3 and not missed at all. Just drops you out of the action way too often. If anything, loot is a little too commonplace. The old Fallouts were characterised by some pretty lean times, ammo-wise.

[Sky]

I disagree with every point litigator made.

[kildorn]

Just switching weapons a lot saves ammo pretty well. If you use automatic weapons constantly, you'll be low all the time. Hunting rifle ammo is always around (about half the hostiles have one) and just bust out a VATS combat shotgun indoors to replenish that and 5.56

My first playthrough I was always scrounging ammo and wound up taking the "finds more ammo" perk. My second one, I tend to have 800 of everything, and I've yet to find a good laser/plasma rifle to start burning the 1300 ammo I've got for that.

[Tebonas]

Minmaxing is the enemy of Roleplaying. If you minmax you will always have it easier, but you can't balance a game around that. I will go farther than that and say you shouldn't. Go die in a Mmogfire until you learn to play games properly again.


I agree on the loot thing, though. It gets tedious until you have enough money to just ignore the junk.

[Khaldun]

I like scrounging ammo and having to keep a range of weapons on hand. It compels interesting choices, it adds real pressure to combat. Interesting choices under pressure are what good games are all about. Unlimited ammo and a steady progression towards levelling everything in sight with a BFG is what makes designers *have to* segregate a game into levels or put the game progression on rails, so that when you've got infinite ammo and the firepower of the USS Enterprise in your hands you still have something to fight that has the same. In Fallout 3, (as in 1 & 2), every area in the game retains some sense of challenge because I've got to conserve resources but at the same time, shit isn't levelling up with me as in Oblivion, so I'm not dealing with mole rats that could rip a Super Mutant's asshole out in 2.4 seconds.

[Riggswolfe]

Similarly, division of weapons into small, big and energy really seems to deprive the game of a logical progression in weapons.  If you invest skills and perks in small guns, there seems to be limited benefit to using anything else, which means you use primarily the same hunting and assault rifles the entire game.  Either you decide you want to be the minigun dude or the pewpew laser dude, or else you just get small guns and sniper/commando and make people's heads explode.

Wrong. There is a compelling difference between the pew-pew and the small guns and the booming big guns.

Small guns work great in the indoor maps, particularly shotguns. Shotguns are also great for killing those damn scorpions for some reason.
Lasers work better at long ranges and seemed to really tear up robots.
Big guns are great for taking on groups or one really big enemy.

You can just stick with one type the whole game but you'll have a rougher time of it.

[Engels]

Lockpicking. How the f*ck does that work? On easy locks, it seems a matter of using either a or d to turn the lock with the screw driver while angling the bobby pin slightly to the left or right. On medium difficulty, however, that trick does not work, and I have no real sense of what I'm mean to do.

[Ingmar]

Lockpicking. How the f*ck does that work? On easy locks, it seems a matter of using either a or d to turn the lock with the screw driver while angling the bobby pin slightly to the left or right. On medium difficulty, however, that trick does not work, and I have no real sense of what I'm mean to do.

Sometimes you have to move the bobby pin way way to one side or the other. Once you get used to the feedback from watching how the pin jiggles when you turn the lock you'll be able to tell which way to put it, how far, etc. Harder locks basically seem to just have a narrower range of angles that will work.

[Lantyssa]

The abundance of loot is great if you take the repair skill since it lets you condense your inventory while getting fully working items.  You have the option to take a lot of things, and you don't have to go back for what's left.  If you do then you either need the caps, or you're not making the hard choices about what to leave behind.  I'm a packrat, and I'm more or less okay with it.  (It does annoy me on some of the really large installations with one-way trips.)  If nothing else, find a container at the entrance and stow stuff there while you ferry it back and forth.

Lockpicking. How the f*ck does that work? On easy locks, it seems a matter of using either a or d to turn the lock with the screw driver while angling the bobby pin slightly to the left or right. On medium difficulty, however, that trick does not work, and I have no real sense of what I'm mean to do.

It's the same.  Look for the bobby pin to start rattling and stop if it does.  Adjust a little, and try again.  It's less forgiving, but the same.

[Rasix]

Lockpicking. How the f*ck does that work? On easy locks, it seems a matter of using either a or d to turn the lock with the screw driver while angling the bobby pin slightly to the left or right. On medium difficulty, however, that trick does not work, and I have no real sense of what I'm mean to do.

You only turn in one direction I think, I just use A.  What I do is:

1.  Start turning using A.  If there's resistance stop turning  (lock should reset position) and move the bobby pin slightly to left or right.
2.  Start turning again. If you get immediate resistance stop turning and move the bobby pin to the other side.  
3.  Continue to turn slow.  As soon as you hit resistance, stop turning and make minor adjustments to the bobby pin until you can turn cleanly past that resistance. Do not attempt to push past any resistance, you will break the pin.
4.  On easy locks, it will be very easy to find where to have the bobby pin and get a clean turn.  On hard and very hard, the you have to be very exact with your bobby pin placement and bobby pins will snap a lot easier.  I find it easier to guess the bobby pin placement and start narrowing it down where it needs to be.  For instance, if the 12 o'clock position fails and fails early, try a 2 or 10 o'clock position rather than just slightly right or left and start narrowing it down.

[kildorn]

Lockpicking isn't bad, it's just trial and error until it sticks. Don't jam the screwdriver or you'll break it though.

Hacking is fucking stupid.

[Rasix]

Lockpicking isn't bad, it's just trial and error until it sticks. Don't jam the screwdriver or you'll break it though.

Hacking is fucking stupid.

Yes it is.  I quick save before any attempt.  I still think I get it about 75% of the time.

[schild]

Why quicksave? Just back out on the 3rd try.

[Kitsune]

Yeah, if you're down to one guess left on a hack attempt, just hit the power button to exit out and start fresh.  There's really no excuse for failing on a hack attempt.

[Rasix]

Yeah, if you're down to one guess left on a hack attempt, just hit the power button to exit out and start fresh.  There's really no excuse for failing on a hack attempt.

Hah, I would have thought that they would have disallowed that.  I just assumed it. 

[Riggswolfe]

Hacking is easy even if they are very hard. They give you how many you got right and you know they're in the same position as well.

So, let's use this example. 5 letter words.

Brick
Brack
Trick
Cream
Steam
Shaft
Stick
Stack

So you choose brick. You get 3/5 right. So, you narrow it down. At first glance you probably think "it could be brack or maybe truck or maybe stick or maybe stack." Let's look at them. You have 4 in common with brack, so that can't be it. You have 2 in common with stack so that's not it. This leave trick or stick. If it was trick you would have 4 in common so it can't be trick. The correct word is stick.

Using this methodology I was able to hack most computers with only two or three guesses. It's very important to look at not only what you got right but also to look at words that you would have had more matches with if it was that word like my trick and brick example above. Even if you get only 1 out of how ever many letters right you can eliminate possibilities this way by looking at words that your guess had more than 1 letter in common with. I once guessed it on my second try becuase my first choice had zero matching letters in it.

[Ingmar]

Yeah, if you're down to one guess left on a hack attempt, just hit the power button to exit out and start fresh.  There's really no excuse for failing on a hack attempt.

Hah, I would have thought that they would have disallowed that.  I just assumed it. 

I swear I had an npc in-game tell me that at some point, I was sort of surprised.