Darkfall Update

[Burl Swift]

Darkfall Online has stayed under the radar of most people, and has been somewhat stagnant lately. Today things sparked up a bit.

The new website was unveiled and content updated. There are now visuals of every race in Agon along with long awaited lore. Tasos made a post about the update, which can be read here. I've been following this game since about the time I gave up on Shadowbane and I can tell you that the DF community has been thirsting for most of this new information for a while now.

Enjoy...or don't.

[Speedy Cerviche]

Yeah Im looking forward to this game, but only check the site about once every 2 weeks so thanks for posting this heh. Infact its pretty much the only MMORPG I have any hope for.

[schmoo]

From the game FAQ:

Will I need to level?
There is no leveling in Darkfall. Our advancement system is 100% skill based. If you want to learn to use the sword for example, you pick up the swordsmanship skill by learning it from an NPC or from another player and you advance this skill with use. You become a better swordsman over time and with practice, by actually using your sword while hunting or in combat.

Now this sounds interesting.  Thanks for the heads-up.

[Morfiend]

From the game FAQ:

Will I need to level?
There is no leveling in Darkfall. Our advancement system is 100% skill based. If you want to learn to use the sword for example, you pick up the swordsmanship skill by learning it from an NPC or from another player and you advance this skill with use. You become a better swordsman over time and with practice, by actually using your sword while hunting or in combat.

Now this sounds interesting.  Thanks for the heads-up.

You mean, that sounds just like UO with SWG's method of learning skills.

[Romp]

still beats the hell out of levelling!

[Foix]

You mean, that sounds just like UO with SWG's method of learning skills.

Remember that skill-based advancement in multiplayer RPGs existed long before either UO or SWG. But unlike EQ, the developers of UO apparently decided to cop their ideas from good MUDs.

Because I'm too lazy to go and look for myself, maybe someone can answer my question: does that mean Darkfall won't have those stats that are traditionally known as 'attributes', i.e. strength, dexterity, intelligence, wisdom and so on? Will they exist but remain constant based on your choices at character creation, or will they increase in the same manner of skills? A no-attribute or constant-attribute setup with pure skill-based advancement might be a way of satisfying the Flat Power Curve shibboleth, provided superior skill doesn't confer absolute superiority.

Since Shadowbane was mentioned in the parent, I'll take a moment to say this: Shadowbane plus hyperfast leveling, a resource system, 'feature characters' and server resets would be about as close to my definition of a perfect MMORPG that the genre is capable of aspiring to at the moment.

[Dren]

From the game FAQ:

Will I need to level?
There is no leveling in Darkfall. Our advancement system is 100% skill based. If you want to learn to use the sword for example, you pick up the swordsmanship skill by learning it from an NPC or from another player and you advance this skill with use. You become a better swordsman over time and with practice, by actually using your sword while hunting or in combat.

Now this sounds interesting.  Thanks for the heads-up.

You mean, that sounds just like UO with SWG's method of learning skills.

No, it sounds just like UO.  You bought skills as a newb from npcs up to a certain level (around 35-40 if I remember correctly) and then it was up to you to raise it to the 100 max. (105,110,115,120,125.....subsequent patches)

[Alluvian]

I don't understand why skills are so much better than levels.  The only reason is that it allows everyone to group with anyone else, but CoH shows us that you can beat that problem in a level based game with their sidekick system.

In the end you are still doing a repetitive task for character improvement.  Neither one IMO is an inherently superior system.  It is all in what you do with it.

Hope the game is good.  Not going to the site though.  I have a new rule where I don't visit any mmog site or board until it enters beta.  The exception being beta signups as I hear about them.

[HaemishM]

I like skills over levels because character advancement/creation feels more organic than a strict class-based/level-based system.

It can still be a grind (see Wish) but that's only if the content you have to use is boring.

[Alluvian]

Understood.  Skills are more of a gradual increase where levels are usually pretty big improvements happening suddenly followed by gaps of nothing.

My problem with skills is that they are sometimes so gradual you don't notice the improvement at all so it feels like your character is static.  I like character improvement, but you have to start with enough abilities to be useful and to have fun.

[Burl Swift]

does that mean Darkfall won't have those stats that are traditionally known as 'attributes', i.e. strength, dexterity, intelligence, wisdom and so on? Will they exist but remain constant based on your choices at character creation, or will they increase in the same manner of skills?

As far as I know there are still going to be attributes, but how they will work isn't known yet.

[Alluvian]

Wow, deleting post. I posted it in the video card thread, no clue how the heck it got here.

[WayAbvPar]

I prefer skillls over levels for a few reasons...the biggest being the ability to group with anyone, and the fact that I can jump on for 30 minutes and advance my character. I also like that different play sessions have different focii- I might work on my combat skills while hunting for a night or two, and then take a night off to hang around and chat with my buddies while working on non-combat skills (In UO- things like Arms Lore, Eval Intel, Hiding, etc).  I also like the feeling that 'practice makes perfect'- the more I do things, the better I get at them.

[Sloth]

Ashen Empires, formerly known as Dransik is skill based too. There were no caps in Dransik either, maybe same way in Empires too, so you could actually max out every skill in the game if you played long enough.

Ashen is alot like UO in that all you needed to do to learn a skill was pick up a tool and start working. You didn't have to train anything first.

[Romp]

With a level gain system you pretty much do the same thing every time you log on.  You spend your time trying to find a group of your level with a spot who is getting good xp etc etc Then you go and camp somewhere and kill mobs over and over and over.

With a skill gain system you have a bunch of different skills all of which may require different things to do.  It gets totally away from the repetitive nature of levelling.  You can even go out and pvp and gain skills.  You dont have to really worry about getting the perfect xp group, usually you can just go and solo or play with guild mates or whatever, spar against each other etc etc

With level based games I feel like I'm wasting my time unless I'm constantly gaining xp until my character is finished.

[HRose]

I like skills over levels because character advancement/creation feels more organic than a strict class-based/level-based system.

It can still be a grind (see Wish) but that's only if the content you have to use is boring.

Now I'm biased by WoW's awe but it has also a system I like a lot.

It uses levels, it uses skills improving on the use and it's the exact opposite of the "grind".

Yes, the class based system is more limitating because I cannot do what I want but I'm going to like this more anyway:
Skill based games bring to a system where you'll have to min/max the combination more powerful and at the end you'll have all the players with the same spec. Having classes not only prevents this kind of homogenization but it also helps when it comes to tweak and balance the whole thing (if your skill system doesn't become so tight to be completely equal to a class based one).

PvP in a skill based environment is an hell worst than DAoC, unfortunately. The more you give freedom the more it will be painful to balance it.

[Romp]

a traditional class based system is horrible for pvp though because it essentially puts people into 'roles' such as healer, tank, nuker etc

Then you get a bunch of people who need to be in a group together to perform and 1v1 pvp is horribly unbalanced.

In a skill based system you usually end up with a small number of fairly uber 'do everything' templates which everyone uses, are fun to play and they can be balanced 1v1, like in UO.

[Wolf]

New Interview

ps: Yeah. I'm still uncomfortable making new topics 

[Fabricated]

Ahahah, now that I look at that first post and the guy's posting history....

[Lt.Dan]

Suspected moles should have their posts sarcasm tagged.

Yeah Im looking forward to this game, but only check the site about once every 2 weeks so thanks for posting this heh. Infact its pretty much the only MMORPG I have any hope for.

See.

[tazelbain]

I'd doubt its worth their money to do it here.  Slashdot is a much better target.  Like that guy who had an article about how gold farming helps the game economy and then has a link to a gold farming site.

[Soln]

best burn evah!

[Morfiend]

As for the board whisperers, they’re a reaction to a highly anticipated and ambitious game by an independent studio. ‘Whispers’ have proven in the past to have an agenda or two behind them, and whether it’s competition, attempts at forcing information, or manipulating an active community, we shouldn’t propagate them by rehashing them.

If you dont talk about them, we can pretend they dont exist.

Our commitment to Darkfall is a given. We’re proud to report that we’re in the final stages of production. Our community can look forward to a lot of new Darkfall information and material, and of course, the chance to playtest the game.

We are so far in the hole, if we tried to back out now, the mafia will break out kneecaps.

That’s not a new style you’re looking at, it’s the graphical evolution of a game in development, something that we’ve decided to let our community participate in.

Our old art sucked balls. We hired a new guy.

Darkfall delivers you from the limp-wristed clutches of point-and-click combat. It combines the best elements of the role-playing genre with the intensity and sheer fun of the FPS.

We are planetside with swords. RARRR!!!

These epic struggles take place in an enormous game world, which is so packed with content that you could spend years just exploring it. Hundreds of different monster types populate countless ruins, dungeons and villages on five huge, radically different continents.

The catasses will cap in about 2 weeks. But we really think the casual player will love our mobs "snake" "deadly snake" "poisonous snake" "lava snake" "deasesed snake" and "devil snake".

The decision that Darkfall would support a high number of players came early in the technical design process. It was obvious that the numbers we wanted would be hard to support on the server end without clustering, so we started evaluating available clustering technologies. None of them met our requirements at the time, and we soon understood that we would need to do this ourselves. After a lot of brainstorming and experimentation, we arrived at a model for distributed computing which we’ve pretty much stayed with since then.

You are so fucked. Try to run a FPS with this kind of lag. We should have the servers stable about 8 to 11 months after release.

It’s true that Darkfall’s real-time combat gameplay lends itself brilliantly to PvP, but equally as well to PVE, group combat and naval warfare

We are a PVP game. BUT WE HAVE GRIND TOO!!

Today I logged into the game, got on a battle horse and rode out of the human capital where I engaged a group in combat. A highlight of this very gratifying experience was a head bouncing to the ground (and rolling into the moat that surrounds the city) after a well timed sword blow as I rode by. I don’t remember having this much fun before in MMOG combat.

What do you mean no one like to be one shotted? BS. That was awsome. That lowbie never saw me coming.


Now, having mocked that interview, if they some how DO pull this off. I will love them.

MMOG combat has tended towards the boringly static, with players deducting hit points from each other while micromanaging their characters. In Darkfall, however, combat is as unpredictable, visceral, action-packed and intense as medieval fantasy combat can be.

[Soln]

"snake" "deadly snake" "poisonous snake" "lava snake" "diseased snake" and "devil snake".

  Gold.  "Kill ten snakes.  I mean rabbits."




Skills?  How to do they manage con?  How do you manage damage, hit points, weapon stats balance, healing, and overall play progression?    Use hidden levels?  /confused

[Roac]

Now, having mocked that interview, if they some how DO pull this off. I will love them.

Darkfall... their lead dev is the same guy that said their graphics would run and look great on a GeForce 2, and mocked Shadowbane for taking too long to develop.  Maybe the game will be great, and I'd like to see it work - but comments like that (and others) let me know they were green.

[Calantus]

I doubt I'll enjoy it. Either the PVE will be uninspired, or it will suck being interrupted by PVPers all the time while I'm trying to PVE, or it will be so spread out it'll suck when I'm trying to get my PVP on. I hate being made to put myself into a disadvantaged situation (less than full life and a mob on me) when players could come along and attack me at any moment. If I'm doing a PVP activity like killing guards around an objective or something that's fine. But if you want me to login to your "PVP" game to kill some goblin in a ruin for a sword skill point so some random phag can come backstab me while I'm low, I don't wanna hear it.

So yeah... their varied environments with fantastic creatures or whatever... don't like the idea.

[raydeen]

"snake" "deadly snake" "poisonous snake" "lava snake" "diseased snake" and "devil snake".

  Gold.  "Kill ten snakes.  I mean rabbits."

Those ain't rabbits! Those are the dreaded Daggerfall Bunnies!!! IIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!

Seriously though, this games sounds like Daggerfall Online which would be my personal wet dream. I know I've said it before, but that game is my all time fav RPG. Would it work as a MMOG? Don't know, but I'd certainly be willing to find out. Anything to deliver me from EQ and WoW.

[Sunbury]

Skills?  How to do they manage con?  How do you manage damage, hit points, weapon stats balance, healing, and overall play progression?    Use hidden levels?  /confused

Asheron's Call 1 handled this by comparing your attack skill to the targets defense skill, then computing a % chance to hit based on the difference.

So if your Sword Skill was 100 and the targets Melee Defense Skill was 100, you had a 50-50 chance of hitting.   I think it fell off like a normal distribution around that, so if your skill was 200 you almost never missed, and if 1 you almost always missed, but there was always a chance to hit miss no matter what (since a normal distribution never drops to 0).

The damage on a hit was a factor of the weapon stats, weapon damage buffs, character attribtues, target buffs, armor level at the target point (hands, feet, legs, etc), resistance to type of damage (slash, pierce, blunt, fire, ice, electric, acid).

The 'level' of the mob didn't really mean anything, just a rough indication of what their skills are, and what their armor is.

Magic worked the same way, comparing your War Magic skill vs the targets Magic Defense skill to hit/miss, then applying damage based on the spell level, mob resistances to that element, and defensive buffs.

[Sky]

Seriously though, this games sounds like Daggerfall Online which would be my personal wet dream. I know I've said it before, but that game is my all time fav RPG. Would it work as a MMOG? Don't know, but I'd certainly be willing to find out. Anything to deliver me from EQ and WoW.

I wish someone had made the massive random dungeons in Morrowind or Oblivion. I can't deal with the series' shortcomings with the shitty dungeons they include. I was in a dungeon in Daggerfall for weeks once, one of my favorite gaming memories. I had jumped down a well and fell like 40 levels down and couldn't get back up that way, had to find another way out. That was an interesting gameplay experience.

[Yegolev]

I wish someone had made the massive random dungeons in Morrowind or Oblivion. I can't deal with the series' shortcomings with the shitty dungeons they include. I was in a dungeon in Daggerfall for weeks once, one of my favorite gaming memories. I had jumped down a well and fell like 40 levels down and couldn't get back up that way, had to find another way out. That was an interesting gameplay experience.

I liked the huge, random dungeons too, even with the odd chance of getting one so wacked out you couldn't find the objective.  It's another case of a developer listening to the people that didn't like the game instead of the ones that did.

[Lt.Dan]

I wish someone had made the massive random dungeons in Morrowind or Oblivion. I can't deal with the series' shortcomings with the shitty dungeons they include. I was in a dungeon in Daggerfall for weeks once, one of my favorite gaming memories. I had jumped down a well and fell like 40 levels down and couldn't get back up that way, had to find another way out. That was an interesting gameplay experience.

Give me 1ed Dungeon Master's Guide and a set of dice.  Now that's a random dungeon!

[Draive]

I doubt I'll enjoy it. Either the PVE will be uninspired, or it will suck being interrupted by PVPers all the time while I'm trying to PVE, or it will be so spread out it'll suck when I'm trying to get my PVP on. I hate being made to put myself into a disadvantaged situation (less than full life and a mob on me) when players could come along and attack me at any moment. If I'm doing a PVP activity like killing guards around an objective or something that's fine. But if you want me to login to your "PVP" game to kill some goblin in a ruin for a sword skill point so some random phag can come backstab me while I'm low, I don't wanna hear it.

So yeah... their varied environments with fantastic creatures or whatever... don't like the idea.

Funny how everything you dont like about the game is why I'm so interested in it.

[Calantus]

You like grinding on random critters in your PVP games?

[Wolf]

You like grinding on random critters in your PVP games?

No he likes unrepetative and unrestricted PvP in an open world. One that you can meet unbalanced groups in - be the zerg, kill the zerg. Something like in one particular game, I don't know if you've heard about it - Ultima Online.

[Calantus]

I think I may have played it for several years, but I'm really not sure.

I'll play a game with "unrepetative and unrestricted PVP in an open world" provided they don't make me grind through shitty random mobs to max my char. The added "spice" of some random guy coming along and extending the time I spend trying to grind myself up on shitty random mobs so I can compete in the PVP in a "PVP" game just makes me even more inclined to dislike it. Did you think the PVE in UO was fascinating? Did you think the PVE in SB was compelling? No? Then why the fuck would you want it in a "PVP" game?

Putting in shit like the champion spawns in UO, keeps like DAoC, and suchlike PVP objectives to be fought over and have the possibility of unbalanced groups sounds like fun. Killing my 60-billionth random-green-humanoid to up skill/experience/whatever does not sound like fun, especially when the game is supposed to be a "PVP" game.

That clearer for ya?