CCP: Changing How Local Works (Now With More Scanner Spamming!)

[ajax34i]

I think they'll go horizontal: these T3 ships will, maybe, have prerequisites similar to T2 ships, and will be (less) powerful than T2 ships.  First, they're going to be heavily pre-nerfed, and even after they un-pre-nerf, the "balance of power" will be such that only the most min-maxed combinations will be competitive with T2 (and the majority of combinations will be paper-thin eye-candy).

I expect that, just like with current ships, there won't be any combination that will allow battleship-sized CPU and grid AND interceptor speeds, or 8/8/8 slots and the grid to fill them all, etc.

So, pretty much pre-nerfed eye-candy that's shite in actual combat.

[Pezzle]

It is not a terrible idea, just one I am not sure I can support (at current).  The system I read really does favor the 0.0 sov holders though, and I am not sure that is fair.  It does feel very artificial.  Grinding means even more grinding?  Popular with some, but not really with me.  Those who can afford large towers jammed with modules (or have caldari outposts) will dominate the bpos, everyone else gets slim pickings.  The speed of your research becomes the most important factor.

I really think new tech has to go horizontal from T2, not vertical.  If we want it vertical it needs to be from tech one and not overlap with T2.  That is, T3 should be different than T2, maybe better in some ways, maybe worse than others.  Creation of that tech should not use the same methods as T2 creation(invention).  At this stage there should also be design variations.  CCP seems to agree with me, unfortunately they have some odd barriers and design choices which will leave much to be desired by players.

[Fordel]

Just about every innovation in EVE has catered to the 0.0 Sov holders/players. CCP feels only the 0.0 player is "doing it right" or how ever you want to put it.

[Goumindong]

0.0 players make up the largest swath of interested players that are most likely to keep playing i am betting.

Also, FW wasn't for 0.0[and hey want to ruin 0.0 Sov by implementing FW mechanics into it]

[Fordel]

You guessed wrong 



Something like 3/4th's the player base has never even entered 0.0 space.

[Amarr HM]

I don't think Goumin meant that 0.0 makes up the majority of the player base just it makes up the majority of the people who don't quit after a few months, though I also could be wrong.

[Pezzle]

Except 0.0 is fucked up.  If CCP wants players to build empires they need to offer incentives.  Right now you have moons>npcs>ore (maybe ore and npcs are reversed but if you have one you tend to have the other anyway so meh).  That is what matters in 0.0.  People claim entire regions, keep the good moons and parcel out the rest.  Most do not give a shit about empire building, and why should they?  There are no advantages.  You build up just enough to support yourself.  You take the moons you can.  

I think there should be real reasons to develop at a constellation level.  Bonuses for claiming and maintaining a constellation.  The ability to add your own bonus for operating that constellation.  Maybe paths to other systems in the constellation open up.  You could have military, industrial or wild bonuses which impact productivity, npcs, exploration, really every facet of life.  It would give 0.0 alliances and groups reasons to develop inward and might actually make space outside a few moons worth fighting for and keeping.

[Amarr HM]

It's not totally fucked I mean it's just more sandbox-y, the way it is you have to create reasons to control certain areas like Providence being a prime example. But as far as progressive reasons that you have mentioned that would make it less sandbox-y and possibly more interesting I think CCP will pull the sandbox card on most things of that nature in 0.0 rather than looking at fixing it. One thing I always thought would be nice would be the allowance of renaming either a system or constellation if you held Sov for a certain period of time. Although I'm sure there are potential problems assosciated with this idea, if it was just Constellation it would be a nice touch and I don't think it would effect the databases much.

[Goumindong]

You guessed wrong 



Something like 3/4th's the player base has never even entered 0.0 space.

3/4 of the characters have never even entered 0.0. Start adding mission and trade alts from the 0.0 players and that number starts to diminish.

Its my estimation that 0.0 players are the most likely to have multiple accounts, and the most likely to stick around. But that is entirely a subjective assessment.

[Pezzle]

Give us market data access from other regions!  That would remove the need for 2 of my alt characters.

[Amarr HM]

Now that we're on that rail I would also like to know item sell history by station/system/constellation not just region so I can overcharge Sylph again.

[eldaec]

Just about every innovation in EVE has catered to the 0.0 Sov holders/players. CCP feels only the 0.0 player is "doing it right" or how ever you want to put it.

You mean like factional warfare and factional ships, or like walking in stations, or adding more low sec, or Marauders?

[Jayce]

Just about every innovation in EVE has catered to the 0.0 Sov holders/players. CCP feels only the 0.0 player is "doing it right" or how ever you want to put it.

You mean like factional warfare and factional ships, or like walking in stations, or adding more low sec, or Marauders?

And the Orca.  And the suicide ganking changes.  And the autopilot auto-avoidance of Jita.  And the bazillions? of new missions.

[Amarr HM]

Just about every innovation in EVE has catered to the 0.0 Sov holders/players. CCP feels only the 0.0 player is "doing it right" or how ever you want to put it.

You mean like factional warfare and factional ships, or like walking in stations, or adding more low sec, or Marauders?

And the Orca.  And the suicide ganking changes.  And the autopilot auto-avoidance of Jita.  And the bazillions? of new missions.

fucking carebears never happy.

[Pezzle]

PVE is where the serious money is.  CCP want money, they will provide content for the PVE.

[Endie]

PVE is where the serious money is.  CCP want money, they will provide content for the PVE.

Not sure I altogether agree: I think Eve is where it is because of the sweeping storylines and ongoing drama.  That's all in 0.0, and it's what gets them coverage, what marks them out from the Diku shit, and what keeps people subscribing for years instead of months.

Our Bat Country group is a perfect example: we've had a great retention rate since moving to 0.0, and the deeper into 0.0, the better we've held onto people.  No F13 MMO group has kept as busy and bouyant as the Eve project, and while I admit that some of that is bound to be down to individuals, a lot of it is the storyline and the motivations provided by the game in 0.0.

[Predator Irl]

PVE is where the serious money is.  CCP want money, they will provide content for the PVE.

Not sure I altogether agree: I think Eve is where it is because of the sweeping storylines and ongoing drama.  That's all in 0.0, and it's what gets them coverage, what marks them out from the Diku shit, and what keeps people subscribing for years instead of months.

Our Bat Country group is a perfect example: we've had a great retention rate since moving to 0.0, and the deeper into 0.0, the better we've held onto people.  No F13 MMO group has kept as busy and bouyant as the Eve project, and while I admit that some of that is bound to be down to individuals, a lot of it is the storyline and the motivations provided by the game in 0.0.

Oh hell yeah, 0.0 is full of drama, politics and violence. The fact that we don't know what's going to happen next, who's gonna be the next target or who's gonna invade just keeps me coming back for more. Sure there are moments of complete mind numbing, but if I was running missions in empire making lots of cash, I would have quit by now.

0.0 has more variety that high-sec could ever offer. There are probably more people in high-sec, but long term subs I would guess are 90% 0.0 dwellers.

[Pezzle]

That was an MMO statement, not an EVE statement.  The walking in station is a perfect example of CCP making a grab.  They are building for another game but why not take advantage and draw new people into EVE?  MMO's that are PVE oriented have always made more money.  CCP sees the money and wants some!

[Jayce]

MMO's that are PVE oriented have always made more money.  CCP sees the money and wants some!

Problem with that is that markets change.  The things that "always" make money and are a "sure thing" end up being swamped because everyone wants in on the pie.

A better long term strategy - no, the ONLY long-term strategy - is differentiation.  This is the internet - if you appeal to 0.01% of the people you're still doing really well.  EVE does worldy PvP really well.  They'd be well-advised to nurse that competitive advantage.

[Miasma]

When is the local change going to happen?  I still don't know what I'm doing but it seems like an awful lot of strategy revolves around knowing who is in the solar system.

[Amarr HM]

When is the local change going to happen?  I still don't know what I'm doing but it seems like an awful lot of strategy revolves around knowing who is in the solar system.

It's only hearsay at the moment nothing has been confirmed they are toying with the idea as much as they are toying with a skill q. Also it's gonna be a hard to thing to test out properly cause SISI is an artificial game environment.

[ajax34i]

I'd like to see Local go (I mean, it should stay as a chat channel, but no player list), but NOT without CCP implementing a good replacement for intel-gathering purposes.  And what I imagine to be a good intel-gathering replacement (announcements from all of the region's stargates that reds / blues / neutrals have jumped through, that are integrated with the map so you can see dots moving), they aren't going to code.  As a matter of fact, I have doubts that CCP can code anything that would qualify as "good" in anyone's eyes.

[Pezzle]

there is no good alternative for local.  Local alerts both sides.  You see who it is at as close to the same time as possible, you want a 2 second delay?  Scanner changes will not make the difference, it is almost an entirely different mechanic.  Scanners require hammering on your button, that is stupid.  For all the complaints the attackers make, imagine the difficulty of pursuit without local.  In the absence of an alternative (and NOTHING suggested about the scanner so far is viable) local should stay. 

That is me not even breaking open the can about social gaming ;) 

[ajax34i]

Well, they could remove the list of pilots out of the channel and put it in the Overview, have the Overview list all pilots with -- -- -- for distance, ship type, etc. if they're not in the local grid.  That way they'd compact the list some (no more portraits), and we could customize it if we want to (for example, have it NOT show blues or greens).

Local-the-channel could stay as a chat tool.

[Pezzle]

and then you start using your overview filters in fleet fights and no longer have any idea how many people are in local?  Or you cannot find your target in the spammy list of people not involved in the fight?  This suggestion just moves the data from one place to another on the screen unless I am missing something?

[Jayce]

Not to mention that you can remove the portraits now.