CCP: Changing How Local Works (Now With More Scanner Spamming!)

[Phildo]

Link

Local as an info tool:
We want to put local in 0.0 as a delayed mode channel so only people who talk in the channel are shown. We are also looking at other alternatives but if we find nothing better this will be put in testing at least.

[Murgos]

Link

Local as an info tool:
We want to put local in 0.0 as a delayed mode channel so only people who talk in the channel are shown. We are also looking at other alternatives but if we find nothing better this will be put in testing at least.

And on this day the EVE DEVS spoke and they sayeth, "Thou shall not ride bikes in 0.0."

[Pezzle]

Dumb idea.  MMO's are social games.  Yeah I know 0.0 only or whatever lame ass reason the gankers whine about people safing up etc.  Fuck that.  More micromanagement of that shitty scanner?  How is this going to encourage more gang combat?  It won't.  ganks and sov warfare is all we get? 

I can even beat this one with EVE PF.  We know that gates take records of every ship jumping through.  That was established during some sort of CONCORD investigation.  So now you mean to tell me that an Alliance that controls systems and constellations. (go ahead and use CVA as an example) cannot access the data?  Why?  CONCORD does not have supreme right over gates out here.  Sov owners dictate who gets the info if you ask me ;).  As that would be totally unfair (though logical) to hostiles the answer is to leave it alone.  Damn, are they really trying to make every aspect of eve boring and/or shitty?

My RP trumps your shitty ideas.  Of course they will do it anyway.

[Phildo]

True CVA diplo to the end, even RPs on the F13 forums!

[Phildo]

Local is for pussies.

Have fun scanning every single system you come to for enemies when you're roaming.  It's going to make doing ANYTHING in 0.0 besides moving large fleets a total pain in the ass and crapshoot.  Want to move an industrial with tons of shit?  Why even bother scouting, if the next gate has 15 cloaked force recons waiting for you.  You won't see them coming anyway.

[Slayerik]

Local is for pussies.

Have fun scanning every single system you come to for enemies when you're roaming.  It's going to make doing ANYTHING in 0.0 besides moving large fleets a total pain in the ass and crapshoot.  Want to move an industrial with tons of shit?  Why even bother scouting, if the next gate has 15 cloaked force recons waiting for you.  You won't see them coming anyway.

Why you think I got a carrier... WOOOOT

Ill just roll deep son. I imagine the map will still provide info for me to hunt with.... MUAHAHA

[Thrawn]

Ill just roll deep son. I imagine the map will still provide info for me to hunt with.... MUAHAHA

Hunt who?  0.0 is under-populated as it is.  How many people are going to move to level 4 missions in empire when the risk to isk ratio in 0.0 gets even worse?

[Jayce]

It seems like they don't have a good feel for ignoring the loud whiner types.  I'd be willing to bet that 98% of the EVE population likes local just the way it is.  Why even waste effort on something that's been this way for eons?

[eldaec]

I can understand why they'd want to get rid of local and replace it with some other form of live system scanning, but just to kill it seems retarded.

Personally I'd put in a new scanner window that takes some amount of time to detect first the number of other ships, then their approximate size, and eventually the pilot name, according to some scheme based on skills/modules/ship-stats/random-luck of you and the other pilots in system.

[Thrawn]

I've seen some interesting ideas regarding stuff related to who holds Sov in the system/const, POS modules that scan system, broadcasts of how many gate activations were in the last 5 minutes in local and stuff like that.

But knowing CCP if they change anything they'll just suddenly completely remove it without notice and have it be bugged on top of it. 

[Amarr HM]

Title is wrong they aren't killing it just potentially changing how it works. As far as testing it I think they have a problem realising that testing things like this on SISI will never garner real results as SISI removes all the things that make TQ work.

[Phildo]

Right, so the only way to know if a red is in local is if he waves to you.  Brilliant.

But seriously, scanners won't work if the enemy is flying ships that can warp cloaked.  You'd need to catch them at the gate or you're fucked.

[tazelbain]

Just crazy to remove without some mitigation.

[Amarr HM]

Well seeing reds isn't the only thing under scrutiny here, as Pezzle said Eve is a social game but this won't be changed that you can still converse in local, given I understand seeing mates in local is also gonna be delayed. Check out this link for a better understanding of how it may work, it was Zulu's original link so it must be something they are looking at ..... http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=860802

[Amarr HM]

I like the idea to some extent, I think it should be stippled say in 0.0 you have longer delay than in 1.0 where entering local you show up immediately. Ha and the new title works for me 

[Thrawn]

you can still converse in local

But who would be dumb enough to talk in local unless they are docked or at a POS or something?  A roaming gang pops into system and sees you chatting, they instantly know the system has active people in it and start hunting you down.

[Amarr HM]

Yeh another good reason not to use local. I personally don't use it much so I don't see a problem there for me. What I mean is that the social aspect of local isn't being removed from hisec and people who are safe to use it you shouldn't use it anyway if you feel it will compromise your position.

[Phildo]

Couple of points mentioned on other forums

• In empire, how will you know if there are WTs in system?  Going to market hubs will be completely unsafe in the face of war decs now
• I would never feel safe undocking in a 0.0 station without a covops covering it 24/7.  What's to stop an enemy cloaking 100 ships there and biding their time?
• Cloaked titans no gates are awful

[Amarr HM]

Couple of points mentioned on other forums

• In empire, how will you know if there are WTs in system?  Going to market hubs will be completely unsafe in the face of war decs now
• I would never feel safe undocking in a 0.0 station without a covops covering it 24/7.  What's to stop an enemy cloaking 100 ships there and biding their time?
• Cloaked titans no gates are awful

Yeh very good points there these would be things I would be concerned with. The first one would be fixed by having a stipple delay as I mentioned hi sec would show up everybody immediately as usual but the lower you go the larger delay. Maybe having sov would help you see people quicker and the higher it is the better the bonus, this would also mean there is more reason to hold sov in certain systems than there already is? Titans would show up in local immediately with sig radius idea.

[Endie]

That thread is pretty interesting.  Suggestions that fanfest will see announcements on T3 ships, new graphics, 0.0 expansion, playable ambulation...

Also interesting that he thinks ECM is fine as it is.  No nerf for my falcon yet :D

I honestly don't think that they'll just remove local and that's that.  The important thing is that their solution doesn't require constant scanner spamming.  Otherwise dead-end constellations that you can sit a scout on the entrance of will be like golddust.

[Amarr HM]

I don't think ECM is overpowered either but ECCM is slightly underpowered. oh and yeh T3 is sexy

[Phildo]

Sure, it's golddust until I move an alt there and log out at a safe spot for a few days and wait to catch you unawares.

[ajax34i]

I think CCP's decided to do this PR campaign where they leak or let slip various nerfs via the forums, and announce the accompanying buffs only at the fanfest. 

"We're gonna nerf local..."  on the forums.
"...but we're adding a total surveillance and integrated communications system with pop-up notifications at all fleet/corp/alliance levels" at the fanfest.

[Slayerik]

Local is for pussies.

Have fun scanning every single system you come to for enemies when you're roaming.  It's going to make doing ANYTHING in 0.0 besides moving large fleets a total pain in the ass and crapshoot.  Want to move an industrial with tons of shit?  Why even bother scouting, if the next gate has 15 cloaked force recons waiting for you.  You won't see them coming anyway.

You know how quick I can scan out most systems? I just wont bother with areas that don't have a few belts in em. There, Chins, hide in those :) Certain locations will always be hotspots due to truesec and belt numbers.

[Sparky]

Nerf local?  Seriously?  We're balancing based on memes/semi-trolls now?

If they don't buff up the scanner and add some automation I foresee epic slaughter, whining like you've never seen and a quick about face.  As someone who roams a hell of a lot more than he rats I'll enjoy it while it lasts.

Can't even begin to imagine how it'll change proper gang/alliance warfare.  Will be very interesting.

[Phildo]

True, there are places that will always have people in them (station systems, high truesec, etc), but it will also decentralize the ratting/mining a lot as people attempt to do it more safely, and will also drive lots of people back to L4s in empire, making 0.0 even more sparse than it is already.

[JoeTF]

Solution is to move local functionality to constellation chat. Really, it's so simple that even Zulupark will eventually get the idea.
Also, local needs to die and I say this as operator of 9 hulk accounts.

That thread show how removed from reality and idiotic CCP are. They're not looking into cloaking issue for the love of a fucking god alimighty - if there is one overpowered module, it's a motherfucking cloak[and ctrl+q]) , they think tempest is a fine ship (they should run a single db query and see for themselves how frequently that ship lands on the right part of killmails; seriously, it's not that fucking hard), they think projectiles are fine because you can switch damage types (I don't even have projectiles trained and even I know it's pure bullshit), they don't see a problem with multiple titans in cynojammed systems packed with (super)capital escort, and so on and so on....

[Slayerik]

Yes, seriously....Make cloaks just not fuckin work on non-cloaker ships.

Maybe a delay of like 30 secs on emergency warp after a ctrl q?

[Goumindong]

Solution is to move local functionality to constellation chat. Really, it's so simple that even Zulupark will eventually get the idea.
Also, local needs to die and I say this as operator of 9 hulk accounts.

No, its not, and every time someone says that an actuary in banished to hell.

Good god, we had a really good discussion about this with Greyscale 7 god damned months ago.

Killing local is a terrible idea, like game killing fucking terrible horrible, how could you be so fucking stupid to do that.

edit: That link earlier in the thread? Retarded. 3 minutes for a cov-ops/recon. Its nearly as good as zero local, you can move through entire systems, find, and kill a target before that timer is up.

[Pezzle]

Ok, I am now drunk and home from a night of hot Rockband action (Vocalist) so here goes the rant.  *deep breath*


First of all.  I am an EMPIRE BUILDER.  Now, I cannot speak for other 0.0 space but Providence stays humming.  We have hundreds and thousands of players active doing who knows what involving the region.  I enter local and people wave.  I log in and people ask me how I am doing, a conversation breaks out IN LOCAL.  Community gaming.  Massive MULTIPLAYER.  If I have to announce myself in every system I jump through? Yeah, fuck you.  We build an Empire not vacant space with only high value moon mining and hunting for officers (we get none).  The rest of 0.0 I see, which is not everything of course, is mostly vacant or sparse systems.  If you want the possibility of populated 0.0 built removing local is chest slapping retarded. 

Fighting.  Are you serious?  Cloaker gangs.  Gankers squads running around .  Defenders gathered up at safe spots with scouts out, the entire episode as awkward as finding out you felt up your sister at a dance.  Combat gangs wont know what the fuck is going on.  For all the cries from gankers about local, try being a part of a gang looking to fight the hostiles.  Last night we had 21 hostiles reported.  we rolled out with 8, maxed at 12 in gang, couldnt find a thing to do and went to HED of all fucking places.  Even then we didnt get much of a fight.  Sure you want to encourage nano cloaking superfaggot gank?  Remove local.  If anything use of local helps you FIND fights.  Those crying for local removal want ganks, not fights, and they can fuck right off.  EVE can contain ganks but should focus on fights. 

Local is not perfect but it does present an EVEN field.  People can safe up seeing hostiles in local.  Hostiles can bugger right off seeing a friendly gang jump in.  Fair trade, you know where the fight MIGHT be.  Smart money says more and more cloaks fit for everything.  Local intel restricted to those who type will only make the situation worse by several magnitudes.

Now, I am not a ganker, and for those of you reading this who think EVE should be a game of ganks and such I apologize, we do not agree.  EVE is not a gank game of struggle between pilots/corps/alliances/factions  The only tool we have right now to determine WHERE the hostiles are is local (aside from intel channels).  Remove that and we fumble about in a mire.  Tell me what local removal solves?  I can think of nothing. 

Local has been here forever.  If removing local solves problems how about having balls and removing Titans, MS, other cap ships and related bpos to fix sov warfare?  Then you can take away cyno jammers, bridges and some other tower modules.  That will not happen of course because it is far too late plugging the hole.  Local has been here, you cannot stopper it.  The very notion of removing it in current context is grossly irresponsible.

[Jayce]

Preach on, brotha.  You make more sense drunk than CCP does sober   

[Phildo]

 

couldn't find an applause emoticon on short notice

[Slayerik]

It does matter to me, either way I will hunt you down and kill you.

Adaptation is key in any PVP game. I personally would rather have it not gone, but if it goes you won't see me crying.

[Amarr HM]

Nice post Pezzle you should post drunk here more often reminds me of old times I'm slowly being converted here towards being against it, I was pretty ambivalent to begin with but I hate making firm stances against things without exploring the possiblities. I would personally only see a change working if it was nice n'subtle like a ten second delay before you appear and this would only apply to 0.0, empire is instantaneous, but even then there would be plenty other issues. I think the general idea is to look for alternatives to using local that currently don't exist it's a huge subject open to interpretation. That said and knowing CCP and their hamfisted approach to everything it's probably best if they leave it alone

[Amarr HM]

Oh and by old times I mean I haven't posted drunk in a longtime.