Next expansion announced

[Endie]

As you may have seen when logging in, CCP have announced the next expansion: Quantum Rise.

To be honest, their node-breaking "upgrades" that they mention are already in, so they seem to be padding out what is a kinda sparse expansion.  Storefronts for corporations (which will let you set up template contracts for rapid ordering, say of reimburseable ships and fits), some graphics updates, the autopilot system-avoidance thing, and more.

The genuinely interesting thing is that the speed changes were supposed to go in in the next expansion.  If this is it then the countdown to Pandemic Legion (yay, skillful and imaginative masters of PvP!) and Triumvirate (booo, exploiting and game-breaking nanofags!)* ragequitting en masse has begun 

Apply green depending on which side you are on.

[Slayerik]

Goon gate camp near EC-

Nano-fag Vagabonds, sabres, rapiers, oh my.

And they all had cloaks. That, my friends, is faggotry.

They even probed me out as I was reporting some shit to our intel channels. Luckily, they can't touch my overloaded Vagabond. Acceleration Control V and 30 mil in speed implants ftw!

Back to your regularly scheduled patch discussion.

[ajax34i]

Other things announced (somewhat unwittingly):

- a change in how a corp's faction standings are calculated from its members (it's an instant average of all the non-0-standing members older than 7 days now, rather than the gradual increase it was before).

- the impact of the Goons' attack on Hulks earlier this year (6 trillion ISK).

[Thrawn]

- the impact of the Goons' attack on Hulks earlier this year (6 trillion ISK).

But still the overall amount of Hulks increased as manufactures out-produced the ganking. 

[Amarr HM]

I was checking out the certificates on SISI yesterday nothing too exciting but a nice feature I suppose vOv CEOs can now give out cookies.. I mean medals and show which members are their favourites. I want a solo myrmi cookie chocolate chip flavoured dib dib 

[Teleku]

So, whats the difference between the Rorqual and this new Orca ship?

Also, I'm interested to see how the storefront works.  Thats one actual feature I've always wanted to see in this game (though I can easily see CCP fucking up the implimintation.

[Endie]

I was checking out the certificates on SISI yesterday nothing too exciting but a nice feature I suppose vOv CEOs can now give out cookies.. I mean medals and show which members are their favourites. I want a solo myrmi cookie chocolate chip flavoured dib dib 

I want the "I have every single ECM skill to V" badge.  Actually, with your myrmi and my falcon we should gank some fuckers...

[Sparky]

So, whats the difference between the Rorqual and this new Orca ship?

Orca can operate in highsec

[Amarr HM]

I was checking out the certificates on SISI yesterday nothing too exciting but a nice feature I suppose vOv CEOs can now give out cookies.. I mean medals and show which members are their favourites. I want a solo myrmi cookie chocolate chip flavoured dib dib 

I want the "I have every single ECM skill to V" badge.  Actually, with your myrmi and my falcon we should gank some fuckers...

Dam yeh it would be a good combo.

[Teleku]

So, whats the difference between the Rorqual and this new Orca ship?

Orca can operate in highsec

Ah, I see, interesting.  Thanks.

[Phildo]

I'm going to replicate all of Bruce's medals, I think.

[Predator Irl]

I was checking out the certificates on SISI yesterday nothing too exciting but a nice feature I suppose vOv CEOs can now give out cookies.. I mean medals and show which members are their favourites. I want a solo myrmi cookie chocolate chip flavoured dib dib 

I want the "I have every single ECM skill to V" badge.  Actually, with your myrmi and my falcon we should gank some fuckers...

Dam yeh it would be a good combo.

How about, your myrmi, falcon and my onyx?

[Thrawn]

How about, your myrmi, falcon and my onyx?

and my axe.



Overused I know, but couldn't resist. 

[Amarr HM]

Dude don't forget the axe seriously!

[Phildo]

And my bow!

[Endie]

How about, your myrmi, falcon and my onyx?

and my axe.



Overused I know, but couldn't resist. 

Dude the axe is totally gimped just reroll keke?

But yep, as soon as I finish having fun in A-C (ie when Stain and Atlas give up) I'll come up and we can do some small gang stuff.

Btw anyone not in A-C is missing out.  You are way too new to be bitter vets, and there are a ton of kills to be had: I've only got on a fraction of the kills today, thanks to being in a slow-locking scorpion.

[Thrawn]

Btw anyone not in A-C is missing out.  You are way too new to be bitter vets, and there are a ton of kills to be had: I've only got on a fraction of the kills today, thanks to being in a slow-locking scorpion.

I haven't been out of A-C for almost a week on Daala.    Unfortunately I've missed the last couple of good fights though due to time zones and in the case of last night, wiping/reinstalling my computer.

[Yoru]

Endie's gonna need new pants after reading the new devblog.

TL;DR: New capital industrial ship that acts as a gigantic cargo container/hauler with a huge tractor beam range. And bonuses to mining command links.

[bhodi]

Neat idea, bad implementation. 4-600 mil is a lot to have sitting in a belt, unprotected, and is a lot to move around from jumpgate to jumpgate, so unless there are huge advantages, no one is going to use it in 0.0.

So, what do you get for the extra cash? 70km isn't long enough to sit in the middle of a belt like a rorqual and tractor stuff to you. This means you still have to warp around to follow the miners. Using it like this, it's basically a hauler that can store 10x as much but that costs 400x as much and very likely aligns and moves slower. You also can't dock without losing your mining bonuses. Because it needs to warp around to grab cans, it's not going to be tanking your belt for you.

Basically you're replacing either your tank or your haulers, but not both, and there are no serious advantages that I can see for using it for either.

Any way you slice it, it's no upgrade for 400 million isk. Far too risky, far too little usefulness. Tractor range really needs to be the same as a rorqual for it to be even CONSIDERED for use. If it was able to remain stationary, then it could both tank and haul at the same time.

Putting up a small PoS is cheaper, provides more storage (CHA), and provides complete protection against raiders.

In hisec, it might get a little more use, which is I guess what was intended - they wanted a hisec rorqual. It's still a big fat juicy target; 4 BS should be able to suicide gank it.

[ClydeJr]

Neat idea, bad implementation. 4-600 mil is a lot to have sitting in a belt, unprotected, and is a lot to move around from jumpgate to jumpgate, so unless there are huge advantages, no one is going to use it in 0.0.

Like you said, its not meant for 0.0. Its a hi-sec ship, maybe low-sec with lots of protection.

It's still a big fat juicy target; 4 BS should be able to suicide gank it.

How many BSs does it take to suicide gank a freighter in hi-sec? Or a hypothetical rorqual in hi-sec. I can't imagine that it would have paper thin defenses.

[bhodi]

How many BSs does it take to suicide gank a freighter in hi-sec? Or a hypothetical rorqual in hi-sec. I can't imagine that it would have paper thin defenses.

Dev blog sayeth "Hitpoints - 46,000 structure / 6,900 armor / 9,750 shield"

That's not very much at all. Consider each BS you throw at it can do about 1k DPS/sec, and you get what, 15 seconds before concord shows up now?

[Thrawn]

We have people who know the exact number I'm sure but I think it took about 10+ gank BS to safely gank a Freighter in .5 space before the nerf.  Concord response times have since been greatly reduced. 

[Endie]

How many BSs does it take to suicide gank a freighter in hi-sec? Or a hypothetical rorqual in hi-sec. I can't imagine that it would have paper thin defenses.

You couldn't realistically suicide-gank a rorqual if it was even decently fitted.  Mine (MY RORQUAL!) has about a million EHP - more than five times that of a freighter - and if someone sacrificed a cargo expander for a DCII then the doubling of the 250,000HP in structure alone would amount to four times the entire HP of a charon.

[bhodi]

We have people who know the exact number I'm sure but I think it took about 10+ gank BS to safely gank a Freighter in .5 space before the nerf.  Concord response times have since been greatly reduced. 

Raw numbers don't mean anything to people I guess, but look:

Orca:
46,000 structure / 6,900 armor / 9,750 shield

Charon:
106,250 structure / 20,000 armor / 6,000 shield

It's less than half as strong as a freighter.

[cironian]

Orca:
46,000 structure / 6,900 armor / 9,750 shield

Charon:
106,250 structure / 20,000 armor / 6,000 shield

It's less than half as strong as a freighter.

But the Orca can be tanked (somewhat), while the Charon cant. Slap a single Damage Control II on one of the 2 lows and you have 115000 effective structure points already. Comparing the base stats isnt quite fair here.

EDIT: Just checked out a basic tanking setup: With only basic T2 gear and T1 shield rigs I can get 190181 effective HP out of the Orca on its weakest damage type (thermal). The Charon on the other hand croaks after something like 140472 damage (explosive).

If you have more money than sense you can also fit crazy expensive loot (Estamel and T2 rigs) to your ship, bringing you to a respectable 228913 effective HP. But then you are just asking to get ganked. 

[bhodi]

True. I would say by the end it's really no stronger than a freighter. Only 3 mids means no real shield tanking. It'll take a concerted effort to pop it, but it's possible.

[Amarr HM]

How would it work as a mission runner salvaging boat? Can it even use mission jump gates ...

[Thrawn]

How would it work as a mission runner salvaging boat? Can it even use mission jump gates ...

Only 3 highs I think.

[Slayerik]

As the resident gank expert, ganking one of these today in a .5 would be about the same as ganking a freighter in the old days. The old days you wanted 10-12 Battleships (depending on ship types and skills/overload). To kill a freighter today you'd better have 20-22. It is no longer a profitable way to spend an evening, unless you are tipped off at a big score.

It is not reasonable to sit aligned to a gate with 10 BSes on the hope of an Orca happening to come through with mad lootz.

Note to anyone reading this, I will pay 200 milliion for information that leads to the death of a huge score. I will keep your info confidential, and this isn't limited to high sec ganking or freighter or orcas....anything. You know a guy that runs 100,000 plush every two weeks in high sec? We can work something out :)

[Amarr HM]

How would it work as a mission runner salvaging boat? Can it even use mission jump gates ...

Only 3 highs I think.

Yeh four hi-slots would make it more viable with salvage rigs you could have two tractor and two salvagers. If you fit 3x T2 salvage rigs and implants (cost 750m  ) you could use one salvager to do the work of 4 and tractor stuff but using jump gates might be issue.

[ClydeJr]

Orca Construction Requirements

[ajax34i]

Would I be right to assume that, since it has a ship maintenance array AND hangar array in it, you can pull up next to it in a freighter, and drag its contents to the freighter hold?  Thus high sec mining ops would have a way to unload ore into a freighter to transport, via the Orca (which, incidentally, can tractor the cans)?

I mean it only holds 4.5 jetcans, but with a freighter there to pick up that load as soon as it gets full, it's nice.

[Predator Irl]

I think its going to be a good ship for all intended purposes, but also the small time market traders, being more affordable and possibly more agile than freighters.

[Endie]

I'll get one for my freighter alt.  It'll be kinda useful for moving fitted stuff like ships she cannot fly to the edge of our space, either for deploying to areas not reachable by my main due to wardecs or hostile holders, or for getting insured ships or rigged ones bought on contract or the like.  It's not really worth the money, of course, but it'll be kinda useful.

[ajax34i]

CCP has decided to answer any questions posted by players, via the forums.  Figured I'd link the thread, in case anyone wants to ask anything.

My question, "When will you fix the UI" has already been asked.  Twice.