Game design, protecting your idea and moving forward.

[Amarr HM]

I wanted to pick peoples minds about Game Designs, as I recently came up with a game idea and I'm pretty sure it's viable. If I am right and this is true I might have potentially tapped into something on the scale of Pokemon of course with the right implementation. My main problem is putting the idea out there without it being stolen because there are few companies who could easily do it as their next wave project and a lot of ideas I have thought of get implemented soon after I'm sure people here experience that a lot. I have started setting out some of the parameters and making some of the design decisions it's quite a simple idea at the core but is hugely complex/broad at the outset something which potentially needs to be looked at and maybe toned down but that will happen later if needed.

I guess the advice I need now is, how best can I protect it as an idea and at same time find out marketability/viability or other quandaries? and is it possible to copyright this game idea (I understand not knowing what it is about makes this question difficult to answer) it's completely generic in how it plays cross referencing multiple gametypes but with a singular fairly unoriginal but nonetheless extremely popular playstyle. What I feel makes it unique is how it is implemented and the customizable possibilities which is something that hasn't been tapped into. Also like Wow it should be hugely attractive to people of all ages. Apologies for the vagueness but as you would imagine at this stage I would like to protect the idea.

Finally I would like to have the  done within the next month and also a strategy market plan in place is this a tall order?

[damijin]

You personally will need a method of creating the game. You can protect it by not telling people, but selling a game idea (as far as I know) is nigh impossible. If you do not have means to create the game, you've got to sit on it until you do have those means.

Depending on the scale of the game, that could be a while. For instance you know that I work on Flash games. That is because I have the means to create flash games. Making these flash games is a stepping stone toward creating my own development company, which will eventually move into core games for the PC or consoles. I have many ideas for 3d games, triple A MMO titles, and stuff like that. I cannot execute them yet, so I just sit on them, or bullshit about them with my friends, and bide my time moving forward with the flash games working toward the goal of those larger games down the road.

[IainC]

In general, ideas are pretty worthless. Everyone can come up with great ideas if pressed. The trick is implementing them - either your own or someone else's.

In almost all creative media very few people are interested in ideas, they are looking for fleshed out product or stuff that can become fleshed out product with a little work. Really it comes down to make it yourself or sit on it.

[Yegolev]

Previous posts are correct.  I believe most anyone with experience will tell you that you are not going to get anywhere without a prototype.  It doesn't have to be a good prototype, it just has to work.  I believe Raph has talked about this sort of thing a few times.

Incidentally, this notion is exactly why I am trying to learn C#.

[Amarr HM]

Well in a way that's actually good news and advice with a touch of oh crap  . A prototype wouldn't be a huge task in itself, though maybe for myself to do it alone it would be. It's not a state of the art game on program level but it is integrating some new technologies that would be a minor stumbling block. Note I wouldn't be interested in selling the idea I would like to create it myself and it's the first game I have started preparing since I realised my last one would need the backing of a large company so I scrapped it. Also I am in the same boat as Yegolev as I was looking at C++ during the week and I'm glad I have a HTML and actionscript background otherwise I would be completely screwed, only thing is this game might be better served by Java

[Yoru]

As opposed to writing your own engine and then your game within in, might I suggest looking into existing engines or tools? If you're really interested just in making the game itself, there's far better ways of going about it than learning a whole new language and set of libraries from scratch. Now, if you're interested in programming or C++ for other reasons, then it's fair, but a smaller project may be a better idea at first - Tetris is a classic starter game for low-level languages.

If you don't know C++ cold, then learning it as your first serious programming language and competently developing a working game prototype within it will be a daunting task. Not only will you need to learn the language, you'll also have to learn the libraries for your platform of choice. A small game project on Windows is going to involve, at a very minimum, learning the C++ standard library, the Win32 library, and probably either DirectX or OpenGL.

You mentioned you know ActionScript - you may want to look into going the Flash route instead. Damijin's Flash development thread may be the answer you're looking for, since Flash games are all the rage these days.

Depending on the level of complexity involved, you may be able to use something like PyGame, GameMaker, or BlitzBasic. Slightly more advanced than those would be things like Torque, much promoted by F13's own Stephen Zepp.

If you're really feeling up to it, you could concoct your own engine from preexisting components, such as Ogre3D, Irrlicht, FMOD, SDL, CEGUI, Panda3D, ODE (physics engine)... fuck it, here's a more complete list of game development libraries.

Always remember one of the major tenets of software engineering: don't do work you don't have to do.

[damijin]

To continue Yoru's list of jazz, I would also add:

http://atmosphir.com/ - in beta, but looks nice and simple.

http://unity3d.com/ - Powerful, and complicated, an alternative to Flash if you're looking to do 3d. Web based, and fast -- but has a low install rate on browsers so far. Still, the power is undeniable, and I've played with the map editor, which is very user friendly. More friendly than Valve's Hammer.

And Raph's Meatspace could be interesting for you as well.

[Krakrok]

You can't copyright a game idea.

[Grimwell]

You can bring it to market first though...

[Righ]

In general, ideas are pretty worthless. Everyone can come up with great ideas if pressed.

You would think so. It doesn't seem to be the case among the people who are creating online games however.

[lamaros]

In general, ideas are pretty worthless. Everyone can come up with great ideas if pressed.

You would think so. It doesn't seem to be the case among the people who are creating online games however.

Or single player games, or writing books, or (re)making films.

In fact I would say the evidence indicates that most people cannot come up with good ideas, let alone great ones, even if they do it full time.

[Stephen Zepp]

The above folks are right--the best pitch you can give is a working prototype.

What's important to keep in mind however is that you want to demonstrate the core game mechanic(s), and game play. Art doesn't matter--our publishing division for example routinely sees pitches with stick figure models, triangles and circles for 2D games, and a variety of other completely non-production quality assets--but if they team you are pitching to can see the underlying fun factor, they are going to want to help you move forward.

As so many others have mentioned--grab a code base, engine, or game maker style tool set, and get cracking--you can be like 90% of the people with cool ideas and wait around trying to convince others that it's a cool idea, or you can get to work, come up with a decent prototype, and show that it's a good idea.

[Margalis]

In general, ideas are pretty worthless. Everyone can come up with great ideas if pressed.

While I agree that ideas by themselves are not worth a whole lot, that everyone can come up with great ideas is just plainly false. Great ideas are rare in any industry.

[Amarr HM]

I think I understand the root of what Iain means it's all well to come up with a great idea but having the follow through to implement it is not for everybody, though I do admit he portrayed it slightly negatively. Thanks for the tips and suggestions, my main problem is I didn't know where to start and unfortunately I don't think a game like this has been created before and there might be good reason for that. Hopefully noy and I'mabout to find out. Keep the suggestions and comments coming if I make any breakthroughs I'll let you know how it goes I'm currently researching the medium and viablity.

[Stephen Zepp]

One of the biggest reasons why IainC said what he did in the way he did (and others echoed) is that it's become a mantra for an all too common concern on budding game developers:

Ideas don't mean anything when they are simply ideas. Each and every one of us here has some idea of what they think is the "perfect game"--hell, the entire reason I am at F-13 as a pretty long time member is because 5 years ago, I was right where you are: I had a game idea, and wanted to do something about it. If you look back at the posts I made in 2004/2005, you'll see me attempting to explore the idea, get feedback, and figure out how to pull it off.

Fast forward to now: I've been working for GG for 3.5 years, have taught to probably every major studio out there today (either directly, or had one of my attendees hired), and guess what? All I have is an idea, that's still worthless until something gets put behind it!

Don't get me wrong--there is a risk factor, but it's from both sides: you want to "protect" your idea because it has apparent value...but studios don't want to even waste the time discussing an idea until it's more than just some words on paper. Certainly, if the idea really is interesting and appealing, someone may have the energy and skills to take it to the next step--and you have no protection at all in that scenario. You have to be willing to risk enough to accomplish the next step (prototype), and find a mentor or team to help you accomplish that.

It's risky, but in the big picture, there ain't no such thing as a free lunch--and all an idea is is potential, until it has something solid behind it.

If you are really stuck as to where to go from here, feel free to contact me via PM or email, and I'll try to point you in a good direction. As others have mentioned, I of course have a commercial bias, but I do my best not to preach technology when talking planning :)

[schild]

F-13

F-13 is neither a plane nor a website. I don't know what it is.

[KallDrexx]

F-13

F-13 is neither a plane nor a website. I don't know what it is.
[/quote

It has a mind of it's own now.

[Maladee]

If you're certain you've got an original idea, there is such a creature called "Intellectual Property".  You CAN copyright an idea...but you better make damned certain that you're sure it's YOUR idea...or at least an idea that no one else has claimed (legally) as their own.

An obvious example:  EA-Mythic is licensed to use Games Workshop's Warhammer IP --the lore, the locales, etc.

Another example:  TSR, Inc. (Gary Gygax and co.) settled out of court (back in the the early 80s) because AD&D did not acknowledge Dave Arneson's (the co-creator of D&D) intellectual property claims.

It all depends on if you want to sell the idea itself or if you want to find backing to create a game yourself.

If you can't hire a copyright lawyer to protect your interests, you might try writing a book, getting it published and THEN pounding the pavement to sell the the game version.  That way, you can prove the popularity of your idea, see?  That or find a rich uncle hidden somewhere in your family tree and create a corporation of your own, hide yourself in the basement and write all the code yourself.  Unfortunately, you also have to be ready to defend to the death any hint of the theft of your idea. 

Sharing your idea with an investor is rather like handing your firstborn to a stranger, ya know?  Things might work out, but it's nauseatingly terrifying until you've got that kiddo back in your arms safe and sound.

[Tarami]

Warhammer and D&D aren't ideas - they're products and therefore protected by normal copyright laws. They've been in print, sold, marketed. A (large) number of people depend on the integrity of those products for their living. D&D also was at the time, even back in the days of AD&D (quite obviously). Arneson couldn't have claimed anything unless he had been credited in the first edition of D&D - from which AD&D derived. That is direct violation of copyrights, as he was officially the co-creator of much of the content that was reproduced without his consent in AD&D.

Also, intellectual property isn't a rights protection in its own - it's a catch-all phrase for all kinds of rights and protection. If it cannot be protected by any of the other laws, then "intellectual property" means nothing.

An idea is virtually impossible to protect, but the results of an idea can be protected fairly well by the normal copyright laws (which protects, for example, a painting, but not the concepts the painting depends on.) The only thing that can protect "ideas", as such, is patents and those are very strict in what they protect. Submitting a patent for a game would be futile, because even very small changes of the patented solution would make the patent ineligible for enforcement.

I think the only thing you can do to protect, atleast morally, something as elusive as an idea is to get it published and, in some manner, distributed. It still doesn't really legally protect the idea, but you have a better chance of getting something in return if someone else decides to steal all the ideas you had.

[Maladee]

Yes, it IS a catch-all...hence my suggestion that the OP write a book that covers the concept before trying to sell it as a game.

I suppose it would be a rather circular argument to say that someone had to think of these things before they became a product, huh? 


*scratches her head then wanders off to the bookstore for further research*  Aww, who am I kidding?  Like I need an excuse to buy more books? 





   

[Stephen Zepp]

To provide a perspective on how hard it can be to have an idea and nothing else:

95%+ of all game companies (developers/publishers) will require you to sign a release before they will even let you begin to talk about your idea--and that release specifically protects the game studio...it will say something along the lines of the game company not being held to any restrictions regarding using your idea, or a similar one, without any permission from you whatsoever.

The main reason for this, while not fair at all to the individual (or so it seems), actually makes sense: chances are, they've heard your "original idea" many times already, and may even already have the idea under development.

If these types of releases weren't common practice, the very act of discussing an idea with a publisher could (theoretically at least) force developers to give up on projects already in development/funding--simply because you told them about your idea. Obviously, that's not "fair" either, and since they have the bigger lawyers and you want your idea considered, the presenter gives up any claim.

[Ratman_tf]

In general, ideas are pretty worthless. Everyone can come up with great ideas if pressed.

You would think so. It doesn't seem to be the case among the people who are creating online games however.

Taking a great idea from daydreaming to a store shelf is the key skill. Just having an idea is never enough.

People can have that skill, but lack a great idea. And we get to mock them here! 

[Tarami]

I would say "great ideas" don't really exist in the sense most people assume them to. Great ideas are like Vision with a capital V - primarily bad for the end result.

Now, good ideas, those get you somewhere.

[Ratman_tf]

Did you just quibble over the difference between Good and Great? 

[Aez]

Yeah.  WTF.

[Tarami]

It was really a philosophical argument. Don't call your ideas "great", because it implies they're done and need no more work. Which is false, every single time. As with OP - by the time it's playable, fun and presentable to your average Joe, it won't really much resemble the great idea he had to begin with.

[TheCastle]

I personally think that one of the biggest factors in determining if an idea is good or bad is if you are able to make it actually happen.
Its a pretty bad idea to work on something you have little hopes to actually make happen.

A great idea is one that you made happen fairly easily, it not only did exactly what you intended, but it exceeded expectations. Now that was a great idea!

Sometimes you can have a situation where its a bad idea for one person but it would be a good idea for another.

[Yoru]

Truly, one of the philosophical geniuses of our time.