Want to work at EA?

[Pineapple]

Sounds like Hell.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/ea_spouse/

[schild]

Sounds par for the course. Any big studio will make you do this. How do you think EQ2 launched with the stability it did and with the huge patches they had EVERY week? Lax hours? No.

[Polysorbate80]

After seeing "salaried", I pretty much just skimmed over the rest.  

If you're not an hourly employee, then the company can bend you over like that if it wants.  All you can really do is decide whether or not to quit.

[schild]

If you're not an hourly employee, then the company can bend you over like that if it wants.  All you can really do is decide whether or not to quit.

Legally - it can't. Get a handful of employees to threaten lawsuit, quote a couple lines of law, and they'll get their head out of their ass real quick. After 1 or 2 days of overtime computer-types don't become more productive anyway. They just work slower. It's a myth that jack or shit gets done during overtime. Cuz it doesn't. Not any faster than regular hours at least.

[Shannow]

Solidarity comrades.

Seriously what other option do they have outside of unionizing? Or is there an outside body they could go to with their complaint?

[MrHat]

If you're not an hourly employee, then the company can bend you over like that if it wants.  All you can really do is decide whether or not to quit.

Legally - it can't. Get a handful of employees to threaten lawsuit, quote a couple lines of law, and they'll get their head out of their ass real quick. After 1 or 2 days of overtime computer-types don't become more productive anyway. They just work slower. It's a myth that jack or shit gets done during overtime. Cuz it doesn't. Not any faster than regular hours at least.

I'm not sure I understand your reasoning.

Lets say that when people work overtime, they work slow.

Isn't 48 hours (40reg. 8overtime at half speed) still better than 40 hours?  From an employers point of view.

[Shannow]

I think what hes say is that if a programmer knows hes gonna be working a 12 hour day he makes sure to space that work out over the whole 12 hours...

[kaid]

Unfortunatly things like that are about par for the course. One thing though she mentioned the people not coming close to the 90k a year exemption for pay. Frankly if I am going to be working 90 hours a week my pay better be damn close to that exemption number or above it or it simply would not be worth the bother. There comes a time when you have to simply bust out the calculator and figure out what your real hourly rate is when you add in all this on compensated over time.

I have had friends doing jobs like this and I had them sit down and figure how much they were really making per hour with these insane scheduals. Usually they wound up making less than I do per hour and while I am comfortable I by no means bring home big bucks. There comes a point when you either just sit there and take it or wake up and go wow I am making shit lets go find a job that will support me without killing me.



kaid

[HaemishM]

Solidarity comrades.

Seriously what other option do they have outside of unionizing? Or is there an outside body they could go to with their complaint?

I hear the Labor Department has a passing interest in this sort of thing.

[Paelos]

I figure my salary should equal roughly $1000 a year per week-hour that I put in on an average basis. That's how I standardize my worth for accounting. I figure the same should apply to equally college educated, highly skilled employees.

[Pineapple]

I'm not sure I understand your reasoning.

Lets say that when people work overtime, they work slow.

Isn't 48 hours (40reg. 8overtime at half speed) still better than 40 hours?  From an employers point of view.

After being on overtime too long, people start to not perform as well even during regular hours. They make mistakes, they slow down naturally, they get tired and lose morale. They cause as many problems as they fix.

Many companies wont even think twice about laying off entire teams when a project is done. Hows that for thanks.

[geldonyetich]

Sounds like my last job, only worse.   Have all promised rewards or reductions in work load never manifest, only to be replaced with an even higher work load.  Repeat until the employee burns out, because it's cheaper to can them after they're burned out and hire a replacement then it is to reduce productivity.   If they don't like it, there's a nice long line at the unemployment office waiting for them.

I'm in college now, but that job left me worried that after I get out four years from now, I'll be dropped right back into the same situation.    This report from EA_Spouse does little to allieviate these worries.    Unable to resist dragging politics into this, it's my belief that leaving the Republicans in charge for another four years will more or less assure everybody's job will be like this eventualy.

But then, EA in particular has been screwing over their employees for awhile.   Don't forget what happened to Origin and Westwood.

[Shannow]

Another thing would be to make sure as many games news sites, tech sites (/.) etc saw that piece then eventually you have someone from a mainstream media outlet cornering executives in the parking lot to ask really uncomfortable questions....maybe not the best journalism but always fun to watch...

[Merusk]

So.. a big industry forces its workers to do long hours. The workers feel helpless to do anything but take it? Sounds Familiar.

[Dark Vengeance]

Sounds like my last job, only worse.   Have all promised rewards or reductions in work load never manifest, only to be replaced with an even higher work load.  Repeat until the employee burns out, because it's cheaper to can them after they're burned out and hire a replacement then it is to reduce productivity.   If they don't like it, there's a nice long line at the unemployment office waiting for them.

I'm in college now, but that job left me worried that after I get out four years from now, I'll be dropped right back into the same situation.    This report from EA_Spouse does little to allieviate these worries.    Unable to resist dragging politics into this, it's my belief that leaving the Republicans in charge for another four years will more or less assure everybody's job will be like this eventualy.

1) This is not the politics forum. DON'T BE A JIZZTARD AND TRY AND MAKE IT A POLITICAL DISCUSSION.

2) You've said that you want me to stop bringing up your last job. If that's the case, please do the same.

3) Companies try to extract the maximum productivity from their employees for the money being earned. They aren't around so people can sit around and say "What a fun place to work! Wheee!". Though it is nice to have such an environment, it is a luxury.

Bring the noise.
Cheers...............

[Sobelius]

Personally, I agree with the mantra that I work to live, I do not live to work. That said, I also believe I make the choice about where I want to work, what I want to do, and what I'm willing to accept or not accept.

I've worked since I was 10, delivering newspapers; worked in libraries, bookstores, for universities, and for private companies. No one forced me to work in any of these places -- I *chose* to work and accept an offer of employment. And I've even started my own business -- a really scary and amazingly enjoyable experience.

I believe it is in an employer's best interest to treat people like the complex beings we are, not like units of work-hours or a production statistic. However, no matter how an employer behaves, the most important tool/asset I have is my own perception -- when I see myself as worthy of being treated with respect, that I am my own "business" within another business, and that I am free to stay or leave any situation (depending on contracted agreements, of course), then I ultimately empower myself. We only stay in "bad jobs" because we are afraid to leave them (for whatever reason -- afraid we'll not make as much elsewhere, afraid of what others will think of us, afraid we might have to be more responsible for our work rather than sliding by ...).

Though I skew left/liberal in my views, I am also a big proponent of personal responsibility for one's choices -- which includes job/business/career. I find many of us Americans at one time or another disapprove of 'socialism' and its state-will-take-care-of-you features, yet it amazes me that corporate culture and job/careers are just a different guise -- a company-will-take-care-of-you mentality.

[geldonyetich]

I'll agree with you on points #1, and #2 DV, but point #3 needs an important Coveat (one that Sobelius brings up):

Workers are people, and they work best when treated like it.    Putting the spurs to people trying to eeke out every last drop of productivity for months on end is bad management.   It will work for short periods - a loyal worker will be willing to humor you for quite awhile (I know I did).    However, there's real physical and mental limitations which cause this to backfire: People burn out, they'll inadvertantly produce inferior work that sets you back, you'll lose your most experienced workers in the process of weeding the burnt out, and in the end you're left with nothing but utter incompetance from the ground up.

At least, so I've come to believe.  Hell, I never managed anybody, but I've been on the recieving end of bad management and this is what I observed.   Good, talented techs get frustrated and quit and/or burned out and fired.   New inexperienced techs or total heels who know they can't do any better are all you have left after awhile.   You can't make a quality product with those people, but they'll do their best to fake it.   Management's happy, but the company's going nowhere fast because they lost their best talent.

Not that I'm saying you should pay people to slack off.   I'm just saying that if you rev the ol production engine at a high throttle for too long, it's bound to burn out and you're left with a lame engine that can't pull you up a slight incline.   Too many managers confuse maximum production for optimal long term production.

[Kageru]

With the neat additional paradox that being able to work people like this increases unemployment which makes it harder for them to leave.

[Ardent]

Just quit and be a technical writer.

I am totally the guy from Office Space. I spend my first and last hour of each day cruising the Internet, catching up on all my important and life-affirming information, like f13. I leave at the stroke of 5pm, every day. The only situation I have ever left work later is because I was chatting with a co-worker. I never ever take work home with me, and I can completely shut off my brain on nights and weekends. I have a very difficult time filling up 8 hours a day with work.

And yet, the people here think I'm a "professional". Got them fooled real good.

Of course, there is a downside. I am so unbelievably fucking bored and filled with the sickening, empty realization that I have the talent and intelligence to be actually DOING something with my life, but instead I'm coasting. Because it's easy and they pay me.

[geldonyetich]

Keep the resume prepped.  Management that clueless will lose you one way or another.   Maybe they'll ditch the entire department because they don't know what it does.   Maybe your nagging self-doubts that you could be doing something better with your life will manifest into full-blown stress (yo).   Maybe the competition will buy you out.  Ect.   Enjoy coasting while it lasts, but keep on your toes.

[schild]

Keep the resume prepped.  Management that clueless will lose you one way or another.   Maybe they'll ditch the entire department because they don't know what it does.   Maybe your nagging self-doubts that you could be doing something better with your life will manifest into full-blown stress (yo).   Maybe the competition will buy you out.  Ect.   Enjoy coasting while it lasts, but keep on your toes.

You'd know? Didn't think so.

And yes, politics stay in the masturbating monkey forum, thx.

[Pineapple]

Of course, there is a downside. I am so unbelievably fucking bored and filled with the sickening, empty realization that I have the talent and intelligence to be actually DOING something with my life, but instead I'm coasting. Because it's easy and they pay me.

I was in this situation before. I didnt like it. I knew the free ride would end eventually.

That and I felt like I wasnt being productive, and it felt empty. Boring, just like you said. On the plus side, it was easy.

I would take this over being worked to death and not paid overtime for it.

[MrHat]

Just quit and be a technical writer.

I am totally the guy from Office Space. I spend my first and last hour of each day cruising the Internet, catching up on all my important and life-affirming information, like f13. I leave at the stroke of 5pm, every day. The only situation I have ever left work later is because I was chatting with a co-worker. I never ever take work home with me, and I can completely shut off my brain on nights and weekends. I have a very difficult time filling up 8 hours a day with work.

And yet, the people here think I'm a "professional". Got them fooled real good.

Of course, there is a downside. I am so unbelievably fucking bored and filled with the sickening, empty realization that I have the talent and intelligence to be actually DOING something with my life, but instead I'm coasting. Because it's easy and they pay me.

I quit a job just like that because I was bored enough to agree to help my dad w/ his company.

Go go half the pay for twice the work.

Don't work for family.

[Polysorbate80]

Legally - it can't. Get a handful of employees to threaten lawsuit, quote a couple lines of law, and they'll get their head out of their ass real quick. After 1 or 2 days of overtime computer-types don't become more productive anyway. They just work slower. It's a myth that jack or shit gets done during overtime. Cuz it doesn't. Not any faster than regular hours at least.

Unfortunately, they can.  Salaried employees are generally exempt from overtime laws.

There are obviously some practical limitations--i.e., they can't work you 24 hours a day until everyone dies of sleep deprivation--but so long as the company can make just as 'reasonable'-sounding a case as to why everyone should work non-stop twelve hour days then they're in the clear.

[Rasix]

Just quit and be a technical writer.

I am totally the guy from Office Space. I spend my first and last hour of each day cruising the Internet, catching up on all my important and life-affirming information, like f13. I leave at the stroke of 5pm, every day. The only situation I have ever left work later is because I was chatting with a co-worker. I never ever take work home with me, and I can completely shut off my brain on nights and weekends. I have a very difficult time filling up 8 hours a day with work.

And yet, the people here think I'm a "professional". Got them fooled real good.

Of course, there is a downside. I am so unbelievably fucking bored and filled with the sickening, empty realization that I have the talent and intelligence to be actually DOING something with my life, but instead I'm coasting. Because it's easy and they pay me.

Heh, you're like the twin I never knew.  While I like to not consider myself a technical writer, in essence I really am. I do planning for our future technologies, work on information design issues, run some servers and other junk, but at the core (and the bulk of my job) is technical writing.

It's not one bit difficult (sad thing is that my manager knows I'm unchallenged). I get weeks to do things I can get done in a day.  Being the slave of development also allows huge gaps of nothing at all to do during the week.  It's a completely unchallenging job, but I work my 40 a week, telecommute once a week, and haven't had to skip out on family commitments due to work, ever.  I also get paid really well (I guess that's where my degrees come in.. I think).

This can vary at my company, as one group with an over ambitious manager buried his group deep enough that they've had their vacations cancelled and are on a mandatory 50 hours a week.

This is why working in the game industry, at least for me is just a fantasy I had when I was young and single.  Working yourself to death on something you care about seems to pale next to what level of security I can provide for myself and my family.

[Polysorbate80]

A quick Google to refresh my brain on FLSA requirements, shows that overtime-exempt employees must:

A) meet a minimum salary level.  I'm not sure of what the cap is where EA operates, but I believe the feds were trying to push it down to somewhere around $60k?

B) the employee has to be salaried, not hourly

and C) they must be administrative, professional, or executive.  Your typical programmer could probably be argued into the 'professional' category under the provided rules, even though most of us associate it with doctors/lawyers/etc.

So, it's more restrictive than I was thinking, but I think these folks are still S.O.L

[Ardent]

Ah, Rasix, you know my pain. I don't have the wife or kids, so I don't have those entanglements ... or those ultimately larger reasons for enduring the boredom.

I have no fantasies to work in the game industry. I have friends that work for both SOE and Blizzard, and I see what they have endured this year. They all work longer hours than me and make less money. However, there are times they actually look forward to going to work. As good as this company is and as well as they have treated me, I can't say as I have ever felt that way. It's not the company, it's the job.

Has anyone here done any kind of career counseling? I know there are interviews and tests given by "professionals" to try and point you in a direction you find fulfilling, but I've been warned that many of them can just cost a lot of money and tell you what you already know.

[Shockeye]

Has anyone here done any kind of career counseling? I know there are interviews and tests given by "professionals" to try and point you in a direction you find fulfilling, but I've been warned that many of them can just cost a lot of money and tell you what you already know.

Here you go.

That'll be $1.995.95, please.

[Ardent]

Here you go.

That'll be $1.995.95, please.

I guess everybody's job sucks, otherwise books like this wouldn't be best sellers.

I suppose I just need to shut my whiney ass up and be grateful for what I already have. OR ... come up with some kind of self help nonsense I can sell. Mmmm, my inky, black heart likes this idea.

Can I PayPal you the 2 grand?

[geldonyetich]

A Parachute!  I knew I was forgetting something.

I suppose I just need to shut my whiney ass up and be grateful for what I already have. OR ... come up with some kind of self help nonsense I can sell. Mmmm, my inky, black heart likes this idea.

Major De Ja Vu.  Did I type this over a year ago?

No, my option #2 was to try to generate enough motivation to find another job before I burn out completely.   Ardent++.

[Shockeye]

I suppose I just need to shut my whiney ass up and be grateful for what I already have. OR ... come up with some kind of self help nonsense I can sell. Mmmm, my inky, black heart likes this idea.

Make sure you call it a religion for the tax benefits.

[Viin]

Bah, you don't need career counseling. Just find something you like doing and figure out a way to make money doing it.

I actually do enjoy my job (enterprise level support for developers and server admins at MapQuest) but I've often considered doing something else - if only for the fact to learn something new. Which is probably why I joined the Air National Guard in a completely non-computer field (and have been to Iraq couple times already).

As an example, I love flying. I'm sooo close to my pilots license but my last deployment cut that just short and I haven't picked up again. If I wanted to get into the aviation business I have a few options: a) be a flight instructor, b) go to school for an A&P (mechanic) license, c) work at an FBO (rent airplanes, etc), or d) be an airplane salesman. I'm sure there's more (including being a pilot-for-hire, but that takes $$$ and many many hours flying), but you get the idea. You probably won't make as much, but you can make ends meet. It's all a matter of lifestyle.

Heck, I know guys who skydive for a living during the summer and do contract (construction, programming, etc) stuff during the winter.

Anywho, my point is that you don't need a book to tell you what you like. Surely there's something you enjoy doing that you could do to make money, even if it's not as much?

[stray]

Anywho, my point is that you don't need a book to tell you what you like. Surely there's something you enjoy doing that you could do to make money, even if it's not as much?

True that. The way I figure is, try to recall what you enjoyed when you were a kid, what interests or skills you put to use then. Pursue that, or at least some kind of variant of it, and you'll be happy. Some things may seem unrealistic, but that's bullshit. If you stick with it, it'll all eventually even out.

[MrHat]

Heck, I know guys who skydive for a living during the summer and do contract (construction, programming, etc) stuff during the winter.

Funny.  I know people who work summer, and snowboard winters.

As to all the "find something you love and make money doing it."  Fuck if I know what I want to be when I grow up.  Only thing I like doing is procrastinating.  Can I make money doing that?  Or is the prerequisate of enjoying procrastinating having a job you dislike?  There, I've gone and confused myself.

[Viin]

As to all the "find something you love and make money doing it."  Fuck if I know what I want to be when I grow up.  Only thing I like doing is procrastinating.  Can I make money doing that?  Or is the prerequisate of enjoying procrastinating having a job you dislike?  There, I've gone and confused myself.

Heh, I think you pretty much nailed it. If you are in a job that you don't like and aren't going anywhere (and don't do anything about it) then you pretty much are being paid to procrastinate. ;)

It's certainly hard to know what you can enjoy doing for a living, but I think most of it stims from uncertainty and unfamiliarity. It takes a lot of guts to step out and do something new and completely different without knowing how the cards are going to fall.

If you are stuck in your job and want to get out, take a chance! Go back to college full time, go to that pastry chef school, get your pilots license, join the Reserves, do _something_. What's the worse that can happen?