Bowyering

[Jayce]

I think you have to be level 20 to get Journeyman crafting level.

Is this documented anywhere?  I have a level 20 "alt" that has smithing and mining, and I have been thinking of dropping mining and taking up alchemy, since my "main" has alch/herbal and the above-mentioned scenario would probably be advantageous to me.

So, do you have to also be a certain (higher) level for expert/artisan/what have you?

[Fabricated]

I will say, First Aid kicks ass.

Indeed. Outside of the "well-fed" stat boost better food gives you, First Aid almost makes cooking useless in comparison. Doesn't hurt you can bandage other players as well.

[Viin]

Is this documented anywhere?  I have a level 20 "alt" that has smithing and mining, and I have been thinking of dropping mining and taking up alchemy, since my "main" has alch/herbal and the above-mentioned scenario would probably be advantageous to me.

So, do you have to also be a certain (higher) level for expert/artisan/what have you?

If you check with the trainer it'll show the level as part of the requirement.. it looks like Journeyman is level 10 for crafting professions. Just browsing on thottbott, it looks like level 35 is required for artisan, so maybe 20 for expert and 30ish for master?

Checking with the herbalism trainer, there is no level requirement. So, in theory your low level alt could do herbalism up to artisan and stay at level 20 - of course, the problem is that in order to get the good herbs they would need to level to have safe access to those areas.

Conversely, you can't have your low level alt craft anything higher than journeyman (at least) and maybe expert (at most) without leveling to lvl 35.. which isn't too bad I guess.

[Calantus]

I must say that I'm loving how mining is working. On my server a buyout price of 70s (vendors pay 2s for the same...) gets a buyer within 24 hours (and usually within 4 hours), so if I ever want something I can do a copper run and easily hit up 1-2 gold per run (fairly short run too, you just have to know your spots) depending on how many "huh, I just mined that spot" respawns I get and how camped the spots are. If I don't need money I just naturally gather copper as I go along. Bronze, while better, isn't as worth running for me atm as Tin runs aren't very profitable until you can do deadmines quickly. It's so much better than UO's dedicated mining in the exact same bloody spot without any excitement for hours to make a good profit.

Also, if you go hardcore smithing you run through so much damn copper you HAVE to do dedicated runs in order to raise it nicely. If you wanna do it casually then guess what? You don't even have to worry about it, just keep up your mine search and you'll slowly get what you need by playing normally. I don't see how a system that requires hardcore crafters to hardcore gather, and yet still lets the casuals not grind at all is a bad thing. I love that I don't have to go out of my way to gather, but I can if I want to, and that's what makes it good.

Oh, and skinning is bad for money as it's so damn easy to grind. It takes no preparation or planning, you just go to an area, kill stuff, loot it, "loot" it again. "Kill animals" is so much easier to figure out than a mine run. Consequently you get alot of supply and not enough demand to make the skill worthwhile for a non-leatherworker. IMO, the better way to make money is to go mining. As a consequence you'll also get alot of cloth from the humanoids you kill, which you can either sell or turn into bags for fun and profit. So I'd suggest Mining+Tailoring or Mining+nothing. Skinning just slows you down.

Also, Leatherworking+Mining might be a faster way to get leather as you can easily get 60-70 light leather worth of copper in the time it would take you to get 10-20 light leather.

[Litigator]

All I know is that I think it sucks that in order to do tailoring I had to take skinning as my second profession.  Why in the hell isn't it tied into leatherworking wholesale?  I feel like I've been screwed out of an actual, useful profession.

You don't have to take skinning as a second profession, and most tailors don't.  You need a little bit of leather for some of your projects so that skins will have a little bit more economic value.  The idea is to allow players to harvest most of the resources they need for trade skills, but not to permit them to be self-sufficient production machines.

I do skinning/leatherwork, but several things I've made require potions which must be obtained from an alchemist, or bolted fabric, which must be obtained from a tailor.  Several smithing projects require leather, and the Green Iron Hauberk actually requires a Green Leather Armor.  

It's very easy to be a tailor without being a skinner. the leather you need will be available at the auction house. Your projects won't require very much.

[naum]

I think that most of the "gathering" for the tailoring skill comes from looting humanoid mobs — linen, wool, etc.… …skinning though is a natural counterpart for leatherworking (unless you want to just buy all the leather & hides at the AH…)

[Fabricated]

Also, I just noticed how badly WoW needs a skill for crafting bows.

I got a "Hunter's Bow" from a drop in the wetlands, and wasn't too impressed with it (25-something+ damage I think, and +1 to agility, woo). I figured I could pawn it off for some small change at the AH.

I think the AH started it at 28-35S. I checked my mail this morning and I'll be damned if that thing got up to 2.5 GOLD before it finished.

[WayAbvPar]

I think the AH started it at 28-35S. I checked my mail this morning and I'll be damned if that thing got up to 2.5 GOLD before it finished.

Jeebus! Time to check thottbot for the best place to pharm bows I guess.

[Zar]

Also, I just noticed how badly WoW needs a skill for crafting bows.

Can't find it now, but I read a post by a blue name on the WoW forums a couple weeks ago stating they had no plans to put in Bowyering.  Which sucks for all those fruity Night Elf Hunters.

Luckily my dwarven rifleman is unaffected.

[Alkiera]

Also, I just noticed how badly WoW needs a skill for crafting bows.

Can't find it now, but I read a post by a blue name on the WoW forums a couple weeks ago stating they had no plans to put in Bowyering.  Which sucks for all those fruity Night Elf Hunters.

Luckily my dwarven rifleman is unaffected.

Of course, for 12 silver(or something like that) and a trip to Ironforge, they too could wield guns.  It's an exciting run, I did it with a lvl 12 NE Druid in beta... lots of deadly Level ?? mobs on the way.

Alkiera

[Calantus]

About first aid, I'm not seeing the usefulness of it for anybody but a paladin (and priest and frost mages I'd imagine) after the latest patch. If you use it to speed up down-time you would have been able to get roughly the same effect on food. While you then have to buy food, with first aid you're also not selling cloth which sells for quite a bit. And you can't really use it in combat. If you get hit the bandage stops. So you can't use it like a heal, or a renew. Hell, if it still required you to channel but wasn't interruptable it might still be worth-while. But as it is it's a glorified meal.

The reason palis can use it is their immunity spells. Once or twice I've been too low mana to throw on a decent heal, have potion cooldown, and need a heal right now in order to live. Before first aid I'd chain invincibility shields while running away in this situation. With first aid I can throw up a shield and bandage myself while the monsters can't hit me. As a warrior I used a bandage in a fight and healed ~20 HP before it was interupted.

Seems weird, but the people who would need it most (warriors) don't seem to get much use from it. If anybody has a different experience please do tell because my warrior would love to take advantage of first aid if he can.

[MrHat]

About first aid, I'm not seeing the usefulness of it for anybody but a paladin (and priest and frost mages I'd imagine) after the latest patch. If you use it to speed up down-time you would have been able to get roughly the same effect on food. While you then have to buy food, with first aid you're also not selling cloth which sells for quite a bit. And you can't really use it in combat. If you get hit the bandage stops. So you can't use it like a heal, or a renew. Hell, if it still required you to channel but wasn't interruptable it might still be worth-while. But as it is it's a glorified meal.

The reason palis can use it is their immunity spells. Once or twice I've been too low mana to throw on a decent heal, have potion cooldown, and need a heal right now in order to live. Before first aid I'd chain invincibility shields while running away in this situation. With first aid I can throw up a shield and bandage myself while the monsters can't hit me. As a warrior I used a bandage in a fight and healed ~20 HP before it was interupted.

Seems weird, but the people who would need it most (warriors) don't seem to get much use from it. If anybody has a different experience please do tell because my warrior would love to take advantage of first aid if he can.

As a rogue, I've used bandages to great effect.  Sap, kill one, bandage, kill other.  Blind, bandage.  I think ANY horde benefits from bandages simply because you can use them when you are fighting a paladin.  They shield and heal, you bandage while they're shield.  And don't forget to /mock.

[Fabricated]

I use bandages all the time with my warrior since the higher level bandages heal a lot quicker than food. Of course, the downtime difference is measured in just seconds, but it'll save your ass when you're inching your way through areas with higher/equal level mobs looking for resources or a quest item.

[Viin]

Plus you don't want to waste stat increasing food if you already have the Well Fed buff. Good food is harder to come by than silk, at least for me.

[Calantus]

Hmmm, that rogue use is similar to the invincibility of the paladin. Sounds like a pretty good idea to me though.

As for downtime I'm not having any problems getting the food I need on my warrior, but I guess that might be a factor of him being too low for that to come in. The comment on silk being easy enough to find makes me think this is possible. I'll keep at it then, worst comes to worse I just run down some gold in AH cloth sales.

Still, for a warrior it is just glorified food, even if it does prove worth it.

One question: What is the well fed bonus?

[Alkiera]

One question: What is the well fed bonus?

Certain food provide a 15 minute stat buff if you eat for at least 30 seconds.  What exact form the buff takes varies from food to food.

Alkiera

[Viin]

From Thottbot, an example of one of the foods I have:

Goblin Deviled Clams
Requires Level 15
Use: Restores 552 health over 24 sec. Must remain seated while eating. If you spend at least 10 seconds eating you will become well fed and gain 6 Stamina and Spirit for 15 min.

So only 10 seconds to eat and I get +6 stamina and +6 spirit. +6 stamina adds about 800hp to my rogue.

Since this has to be cooked and specific ingredients found, I only eat food for the bonuses and use first aid for any inbetween-combat healings or to heal someone else who is fighting (but I'm not).

[Calantus]

Ah cool. I knew about the bonuses but I just didn't connect the name. Thought it was like UO where you have bonuses to skillgain and success when you are at a certain level of hunger.

[MrHat]

So only 10 seconds to eat and I get +6 stamina and +6 spirit. +6 stamina adds about 800hp to my rogue.

The fuck are you eating?

[Calantus]

Goblin Deviled Clams
Requires Level 15
Use: Restores 552 health over 24 sec. Must remain seated while eating. If you spend at least 10 seconds eating you will become well fed and gain 6 Stamina and Spirit for 15 min.

[Zane0]

I'd think it would add something more like 80.

Food is no problem when you play a priest, but the well-fed bonus is just enough to be tempting.  Hence, I'm always trying to get my cooking skill up.  Catching and cooking fish is a nice way to get the domestic tradeskills up pretty quickly.

[geldonyetich]

Except for fishing I've pretty much capped out all my crafting skills.   Herbalism, Alchemy, Cooking, First Aid.   Only problem is I can't get past 225 without reaching level 44, and I'm level 38 now.

[Disco Stu]

So only 10 seconds to eat and I get +6 stamina and +6 spirit. +6 stamina adds about 800hp to my rogue.

Stamina as far as I can tell adds 10 hp per point. Int adds 20 mana per point.

[Viin]

Sorry, that was a typo in my post :) I meant 80. Looks like it is +10hp per 1pt of stamina.

Pre food buff: 1446hp, 110 stamina
After food buff: 1506hp, 116 stamina

[Righ]

Yep, 10 health per stamina point. I've been losing lots of HP from switching out my leather armor to (scorpid) scale mail, and from changing from my level 30 sword with +13 stamina to a level 41 axe with +20 agility. However, with a couple of hundred agility and some +attack items now, I'm doing over +30dps.

[Viin]

That's all?

[Righ]

Plus. That's the agility bonus. All said, ranged is >90dps at 42.

[Viin]

How did you find out your agility bonus?

My guy looks like this (level 35 rogue):

Str 59
Agl 153
Stm 113
Int 27
Spr 48
Armor 1006

Melee Attack 180
 Power 262
 Damage 77 - 107

Ranged Attack 156
 Power 321
 Damage 68 - 79

[Righ]

Mouse over the "power" stats for ranged and melee.

[Viin]

Ah ha. Thanks.

Since Strength also affects Melee power I won't be able to figure out my agility bonus but that gives me something to work with. :)

[MrHat]

Actually, if you take off all your equipment and hover over your melee attack power, it will tell you how much DPS is contributed by Attack Power.  Attack power is increased through agility.