Empire: Total War

[Big Gulp]

Okay, here's what I did.  I razed every structure England had on it, and then made a deal with France trading them England for Alsace-Lorraine.  I know France won't be able to hold on to England, but I'll very easily be able to keep control of my new territory.  This works out great since I'm really an "ally" of France in name only.  I'll let them pour their men into the meat grinder and spend all their money rebuilding while my noblemen drink wine and set up their great estates in Alsace-Lorraine.

After that I'm sending the Army I had in England on a tour of the British Isles to repeat the process in Scotland and then Ireland.  If I play my cards right I should be able to get a decent chunk of Canada from the French out of the deal.  And then, of course, I can dismantle those pesky 13 colonies and incorporate them into the Reich.

[Big Gulp]

Carcass shot never works for me. Ever. Fucking shit just airbursts, doesn't kill a goddamned thing, and nobody seems to run from it even after a good five minutes of hammering.

That's where the "go big or go home" maxim comes into play.  Carcass shot is really unreliable, but when it does hit it does huge amounts of damage.  The problem is that to pull this off you need a lot of artillery, because most of them are going to airburst like you said.  If you concentrate your fire with around 6 mortars on one area at least one of those shots is going to hit.  If you don't want to employ that much artillery I'd say screw mortars and just stick with one or two cannons.

Of course, I'm an artillery whore.  Why send a group of guys a mile across the field when 12 streaking balls of flame can do the job just as well?   

[kildorn]

I average about 3-4 arty pieces per army, and a large amount of infantry supporting it. I like mortars for the fire over my lines aspect, I just find them better with explosive or standard shot in those numbers. I did try a comedy army that worked relatively well for a while consisting of carbineers/light cav and 6lb horse cannons. It was a shitty army, but did well at taking over the huge amount of walking that is India.

[Yoru]

Carcass shot never works for me. Ever. Fucking shit just airbursts, doesn't kill a goddamned thing, and nobody seems to run from it even after a good five minutes of hammering.

That's where the "go big or go home" maxim comes into play.  Carcass shot is really unreliable, but when it does hit it does huge amounts of damage.  The problem is that to pull this off you need a lot of artillery, because most of them are going to airburst like you said.  If you concentrate your fire with around 6 mortars on one area at least one of those shots is going to hit.  If you don't want to employ that much artillery I'd say screw mortars and just stick with one or two cannons.

Of course, I'm an artillery whore.  Why send a group of guys a mile across the field when 12 streaking balls of flame can do the job just as well?   

What happens to this army once you get quicklime shot, shrapnel shot and percussion caps? I imagine it turns into the Hellshredder of Mandeath.

[HaemishM]

Oh, I've definitely razed some key structures in Protestant/Muslim territories and replaced them with Catholic seminaries.

[Big Gulp]

What happens to this army once you get quicklime shot, shrapnel shot and percussion caps? I imagine it turns into the Hellshredder of Mandeath.

Yep!  One thing these games get really well is just how decisive indirect fire can be, but they mask it really well.  It was the same in actual history.  It was employed, but not really in numbers, and was mainly just used in sieges until Frederick the Great really revolutionized artillery by making it a decisive arm of his army.  There's a reason Napoleon started his career as a captain of artillery, and Clausewitz really goes in depth on the topic.  If you deploy it in numbers and use it well it really makes a huge difference.  If I had to choose between cavalry or artillery there's really no contest, I'll go with the big guns every time.

[Yoru]

I just tried a quick battle, Austria vs. Great Britain. Them with line upon line of horse and infantry.

Me with 7x4-inch mortars and some token line infantry, with two sets of light infantry to screen the enemy and harass.

918/950 lost for GB, 270ish/900ish lost for Austria. Hellshredder indeed.

Not sure how well it'd fare on offense - you'd have to kite the enemy into range, then hold them there somehow. And on sieges, I suppose you'd have to replace the fixed mortars (insane ROF) with howitzers.

[Engels]

I got back into this last night after the 2nd mini patch, and I had a grand ole time kicking Mexico out of, well, Mexico. After about 2 hours of game play, the main interface map started to seriously slow down. Its as if there's a big memory leak. I didn't want to alt-tab with the game to see the Task Manager's report, but has anyone else experienced this since the latest round of patches?

[Paelos]

My game actually seems to start slow and then speed up as I play more.

[Brolan]

Has anyone else had long waits while organizing large fleets?  While playing Great Britian I had two large fleets next to each other, and when I sent ships from one fleet to the other I had wait times of up to a minute.  I thought the game had hung up.  This on a quad-core no less.

[Engels]

Well, I can confirm now that there's a memory leak of some sort on my installation. Windows reported that I was running out of memory about 45 minutes into it. Finally, it just crashed.

[Mortriden]

Yes, there is something going on with the fleets.  I have yet to get a game past 1760 due to it.  Also seems to be related to the size of the fleet. 

[kildorn]

Doesn't help that every AI nation builds GIANT FLEETS which will do nothing except wander back and forth between trade routes to raid.

[HaemishM]

Has anyone else had long waits while organizing large fleets?  While playing Great Britian I had two large fleets next to each other, and when I sent ships from one fleet to the other I had wait times of up to a minute.  I thought the game had hung up.  This on a quad-core no less.

Yeah, I get this too, and it isn't just large fleets. I've had fleets of 1 ship merging into a fleet with 1 other ship and got the hang. Definitely still some issues to work out.

I finished my short campaign as Austria, winning on the very last turn. Started a new long campaign with Russia uising the Darth Mod AI combat mod. I've only had one battle though, so I can't say if the AI mod has helped or not.

[Engels]

Que es esto?

[Sky]

Here you go!

[Engels]

Well, thanks. I did actually look it up, but I couldn't make heads or tails of the information the dude has. What does the mod do, exactly? If you can link me a description, or a list of alterations or so, I'd be greatful :P

[HaemishM]

It's a combat AI mod. Dude is not a native English speaker, but here's what I've noticed so far playing with it in my Russian campaign (and this is only up to about 1705).

Enemy AI actually tries and succeeds in outflanking you if they can. You really have to watch your flanks.

The range for musketry is expanded, probably by about 25%. Your units will start firing earlier, and they have more ammo so they can fire longer. Of course, at the extended range, it isn't as effective.

Unit formations are tighter.

He's also increased the size of some units (i.e. firelock armed citizens have 150 troops instead of 80).

Morale seems to play a bigger part. The shitty citizen militia is super shitty - it folds when it takes a good pounding.

Campaign AI seems a bit more aggressive.

[Big Gulp]

Interesting.  I'll give that mod a go after completing my long-ass Prussia campaign.  Oh, and after France inevitably lost England as I predicted.  Great Britain somewhat came back and started harassing my trade routes because there wasn't much else they could do.  That was the last straw; people should know when they've been beaten into the dirt.

I ferried my troops over on three different fleets and took all of Britain in one turn, and then recognized the sovereignty of the United States.  I'm keeping these damned islands, I just wish I hadn't salted the earth earlier.   

[Engels]

I installed the Darth Mod on my installation of Rome Total War and it does make things more interesting. The AI now, well, actually seems to be a bit intelligent. I no longer simply need to defend my ballistas with a few rows of infantry and watch the enemy be mowed to a pulp. They will use cavalry to actively get behind the lines and chew up the ballista teams if I'm not very careful about defense.

I'm not quite ready to use it on Empire, since I'm having trouble keeping that game stable in the vanilla version.

[dusematic]

So after the clusterfuck that  was M2:TW I swore I'd never buy another Creative Assembly game, as their games have gotten progressively worse (albeit shinier!) for almost a decade.  I lied.  Here's my take on the game:


First thing you notice is the game looks pretty good, right down to the shimmery reflective water surfaces.   That's never been a problem for CA though.  The biggest change is how the provinces work.  There are less of them.  This solves a huge problem that has troubled every Total War game thus far:  a glut of siege battles.  Siege battles are fine and dandy, but when you have very small provinces coupled with a lack of any sensible reason to sally forth from your city's fortifications to meet intruding armies on the field, then you're surviving on a very unbalanced diet.  That brings me to the second big change.  No longer are all of a province's economic and industrial improvements located in the provincial capital.  In every province, there is the familiar provincial capital city, but now there are minor cities/mines/farmsteads/etc that dot the landscape as well.  These can all be garrisoned with troops, and need to be, else you risk opposing armies entering your lands and razing your very expensive improvements before you have time to react.  This is the single biggest change to the fundamentals of the game, and is long overdue.  Now the majority of battles take place in the field, but to capture a province, a siege battle is required.  Bravo.


Another big change is that the campaign map has been expanded.  There are now, in addition to the Mediterranean theater,  Indian and American theaters.  This is good in theory.  However, it exposes the most glaring problem that has always plagued the Total War series like a syphilitic blister:  dodgy artificial intelligence.  Expanding the grand campaign map into three regions demands competent AI.  With three theaters of war, naval logistics are required.  The game launched with an admission from CA that the AI was not capable of naval invasions.  After their third patch, they now claim this can happen, though they themselves describe the frequency as "rare."  In two long campaigns, and 50 hours of gameplay, I've never seen it.  Not once.  What this ultimately means is that AI controlled nations are extremely passive.  Western Europe with its foreign colonies and overseas possessions takes the docility to the extreme.  In hundreds of turns, the only change of hands in territory I've seen from a western European nation has been Spain's annexing of Portugal, and the continual gain/loss of Maine to the natives. 

The AI, as a rule, gets embroiled in countless wars, of which it apparently does not understand how to extricate itself.  I've seen countless factions engaged in war with almost every other faction, and these wars persist (at least in name) for usually the entire game.  However, little territory changes hands, with the occasional exception being in eastern Europe.  The AI will generally build a stack and sit idly with it while it bleeds itself into bankruptcy.  The AI doesn't understand how to properly trade for technology or regions.  The AI doesn't understand how to properly make alliances/protectorates.  It doesn't understand how to conduct itself on the battlefield, as its units tend to continuously and impotently reform while my infantry fires volley after volley into their ranks. 

Ultimately, nothing else about the game bears mentioning.  Because with such core, fundamental problems, it doesn't matter particularly much if you can now wage shitty and broken naval battles.  The crippled AI makes the facility with which the game can be beaten on Very hard/Very hard difficulty settings a foregone conclusion.  Unless you've never played a Total War title before, this game is currently a waste of time.

[Paelos]

I agree with all of what you said, and I await the "Magic Bullet" patch that fixes this game before I load it back up on my Steam account. I catch periodic updates, but they don't solve anything that's really wrong with the game.

I'd add one thing you didn't mention. Some of the victory conditions are totally insane in terms of which territories they want you to own. The fact that they want to have several territories in all 3 theatres (often owned by 8 different countries) means you wage a ton of ridiculous wars that you would logically never enter. Also, the AI diplomacy is retarded, and they make territory deals that make no sense. They also won't stop offering you these idiotic deals every other turn.

The one big thing I did like is the way they did taxes and government in this game, because it takes the city micromanagement down a notch. Setting tax policies over a whole region makes more logical sense than doing it region by region.

[dusematic]

I agree with all of what you said, and I await the "Magic Bullet" patch that fixes this game before I load it back up on my Steam account. I catch periodic updates, but they don't solve anything that's really wrong with the game.

I'd add one thing you didn't mention. Some of the victory conditions are totally insane in terms of which territories they want you to own. The fact that they want to have several territories in all 3 theatres (often owned by 8 different countries) means you wage a ton of ridiculous wars that you would logically never enter. Also, the AI diplomacy is retarded, and they make territory deals that make no sense. They also won't stop offering you these idiotic deals every other turn.

The one big thing I did like is the way they did taxes and government in this game, because it takes the city micromanagement down a notch. Setting tax policies over a whole region makes more logical sense than doing it region by region.

Everything is as you say.  I could have written a few more positive things (like how they reduced micromanagement in many areas), and given it reams of additional negative press, but ultimately, the game didn't deserve it.  The game is fundamentally broken.  I can scarcely imagine anyone having the barest whisper of difficulty thrashing the AI once they understand the basic concepts of the game play.  Total War games have always suffered from AI problems, but the harder difficulties ensured that you'd be facing armies that were larger and more technologically advanced than you, and had higher morale.  Now the AI is so utterly incompetent, it doesn't matter if the AI had nuclear weapons and I had sticks and stones.  I wish I was joking.  I haven't had any trouble meeting the territory goals the game asks of you.  I think they are supposed to be semi-historical (i.e. England needs to have an overseas possession in India). Not only does the AI generally remain at war with other factions for eternity, it also declares war senselessly.  It will declare war and then never move armies into your territory. Often times a country will attack you, then you can sue for peace, the next turn it will attack you, then you cans ue for peace, ad nauseaum. When I have actually been invaded, it is always by a couple single unit armies that attempt to raze terrain improvements.  I've never, not once been invaded by a sizable army.  The game is a complete joke.

[Paelos]

The only people that actually ever give me trouble are Native Americans and Pirates. They generally like to form war parties or catch your ships at weak points.

[Ingmar]

I'd add one thing you didn't mention. Some of the victory conditions are totally insane in terms of which territories they want you to own.

This was a problem in Medieval too; the victory conditions were well outside the range of actual historical possibility in that game.

[dusematic]

The only people that actually ever give me trouble are Native Americans and Pirates. They generally like to form war parties or catch your ships at weak points.

I find that I usually don't even have to deal with pirates.  The sea lanes are so clogged another country's navy will take care of them.

[lac]

I felt a bit cheated when I noticed the game only uses one core despite 'runs great on intel i7' splash screens and 'optimised for i7' stickers on the DVD box.  I know it's all just intell marketing but still...

[dusematic]

Either Creative Assembly is the biggest bunch of bush-league amateurs I've ever seen in my life, or their publisher has them by the short and curlies.  They've been making the same godamn game for a decade and if anything they've regressed each time.

[Ceryse]

Either Creative Assembly is the biggest bunch of bush-league amateurs I've ever seen in my life, or their publisher has them by the short and curlies.  They've been making the same godamn game for a decade and if anything they've regressed each time.

Well, if I'm not mistaken, they're actually owned by their current publisher (Sega?). It was fairly well known that one of their previous publishers only allowed them to patch the game twice before they'd have to leave it be or some-such -- I think it was Activision.

I'm fairly split on CA, though... I desperately want to enjoy their games but they can't seem to learn from their mistakes and merely focus on "Oooh! Shiny!". Empire wouldn't be bad if it had come on the heels of the first Medieval; it'd have enough extra features to warrant its place. But being the fifth? title in the series its a joke. Yeah, its great we're no longer confined to the areas immediately surrounding the Mediterranean and Baltic, and the naval battles are nice... but between retarded AI, launching with no naval invasions (seriously, how does that even happen in a game largely based around the idea of over-seas empires?), passive AI and certain mechanics that have been carried over from the previous games that remain just as flawed as they were then. Not to mention some of the content that was removed.

Bleh; it just boggles the mind how they manage to do it all. Finances shouldn't have been a problem, I'd think. Maybe one of the (many) people here can correct me, but it just stinks of horrendous mis-management and allocation of resources.

I'm still waiting for a game that does what the Total War series does and what the Europa Universalis series does and taking the best from both and leaving the crud behind.

[Sky]

Keep buying it.

Unfortunately, not buying it would probably just bury the franchise. There's not a lot of incentive to make a franchise better.

[Big Gulp]

Keep buying it.

Unfortunately, not buying it would probably just bury the franchise. There's not a lot of incentive to make a franchise better.

Luckily with the Total War series you can pretty much count on third party mods seriously tweaking the game.  The Stainless Steel mod for M2, for instance, completely changes the game and makes it a hell of a lot more difficult.

[HaemishM]

Yeah, I'm gonna go with the mod the game to get the game you really want to play. I was using the Darth Mod Commander version before I got distracted by soccer and LotRO again. It improved the game visually as well as making the game play better. When I get back to the game, I plan on really diving into some of the mods.

[Daspied]

Is that pretty much the only decent mod available at this point?  Hopefully more mods will be finishing up this summer, and they will patch the game so it doesn't crash all the time. Albeit its better then when it was released.

I'm tired of this stupid AI, who like you've already stated just mass ships, they don't seem to go on the offensive ever. The fact i can leave my whole western front wide open to Prussia(at war) as i invade the Spanish just stupid. As for the American Campaign, that had to be one of the worst experiences I've had yet with the game. I liked the fact that you were able to go on the road to independence, but if you didn't kill off the British, or seriously hinder there ability to fight some how it made it impossible to take a city. Mostly due to them creating a zerg force surrounding the whole thing.

Honestly, I'm still hoping the Multiplayer Campaign will come out some time this century. I tried one game of online multiplayer and it was ok, there is just no incentive to really win. In the grand campaign, you think to your self "what do i need to do inorder to save this city being out numbered 3:1"

What is the incentive to push these games out the door before they are honestly ready? It seems that over the past 9 years, as graphics and more features are included the more bugs are in the games. Given that is due to happen, but they should realize this and spend more time in beta. There should have been no reason this game was released in the condition it was, saved files going corrupt, crashes, and bsod.

Going to check out the Stainless Steel mod though, thanks Big Gulp

[taolurker]

I was actually wondering what happened to this thread, and when I saw it on page three last week I didn't even reply.

I agree with all of what you said, and I await the "Magic Bullet" patch that fixes this game before I load it back up on my Steam account. I catch periodic updates, but they don't solve anything that's really wrong with the game.

There was a patch on April 29th, and it was a pretty comprehensive patch, that does seem to have fixed many of the extremely broken things. I was only playing in small doses and restarting campaigns over and over, finding more and more reason to wait for the "magic patch" too.

This patch did fix some majorly broken shit, like enemy armies not knowing how to board ships (a bug that was really only known or dispersed on the E:TW forums). That alone removed much of the Easy button stupidity, that kept me from just taking over the entire world and had me starting over. I kind of look forward to my next restart, it might even feel like a new game with the laundry list of changes.

Patch notes:

EDIT TO ADD
Is no one doing battles online through Steam with this? I'd be interested in a scheduled hour or two long Naval battle or Army attack, and a friend and I tried it on his network and it worked vaguely ok.

[dusematic]

I was actually wondering what happened to this thread, and when I saw it on page three last week I didn't even reply.

I agree with all of what you said, and I await the "Magic Bullet" patch that fixes this game before I load it back up on my Steam account. I catch periodic updates, but they don't solve anything that's really wrong with the game.

There was a patch on April 29th, and it was a pretty comprehensive patch, that does seem to have fixed many of the extremely broken things. I was only playing in small doses and restarting campaigns over and over, finding more and more reason to wait for the "magic patch" too.

This patch did fix some majorly broken shit, like enemy armies not knowing how to board ships (a bug that was really only known or dispersed on the E:TW forums). That alone removed much of the Easy button stupidity, that kept me from just taking over the entire world and had me starting over. I kind of look forward to my next restart, it might even feel like a new game with the laundry list of changes.

Patch notes:

EDIT TO ADD
Is no one doing battles online through Steam with this? I'd be interested in a scheduled hour or two long Naval battle or Army attack, and a friend and I tried it on his network and it worked vaguely ok.

Dude, my bitching about the game is entirely post-patch(es).  The game is fucked.  The easy-button is still there.  THIS FUCKING GAME IS GARBAGE.  IT HAS THE WORST AI I'VE EVER SEEN IN MY ENTIRE GODAMN LIFE. 

Jesus Christ this shit gets me worked up.  I mean how can anyone take this game seriously? THE AI IS A FUCKING JOKE. I can't take a game called "EMPIRE: TOTAL WAR" seriously  that features AI that never attacks.  Holy shit.  I wish I were exaggerating.  I wish I were just a hardcore Total War fan that was bitter and seething with disappointment.  This game is fundamentally broken and the fact that it has 90% reviews is indicative of how shitty game "journalists" are.  I coudln't even finish the godamn TUTORIAL after 3 patches because of a bug. THE TUTORIAL.  THE FUCKING TUTORIAL.