WotLK to wipe honor and marks

[Hutch]

Blue Post

Oh snap. No hoarding of honor and BG tokens into the new expansion. Spend em while you've got em 

[Merusk]

Crap. Guess I'd better get to aquiring the last 20 or so I need for some of the pvp mounts.

[Ratman_tf]

Makes sense, I guess. I mean, I'm not horribly thrilled with the geargrind for PvP in the first place, but that's the nature of the WoW beast and so I live with it.

I've been PvPing with my non-raiding alt (I can't stand PvP with a Palladin, so I have my Hunter to shoot arrows at bitches) but am nowhere near as well geared as people who've been PvPing forever. It'll be nice to start fresh with WOTLK.

[K9]

I could deal with them wiping the honour, but wiping the marks is just an arse.

I think I'm probably 10 or so WSGs and EoTSs away from a couple of PvP mounts, so I guess that's what I'll go for.

[Fordel]

At first I was "OUTRAGED" rabble rabble rabble! 


Then I actually looked at my characters, and realized I had already burned out my stockpiles of marks and honor upgrading stuff recently.


So I lose almost nothing. Oh noes, not my AV marks, how will I ever get 5000 more of those. 


Plus, it gives me an excuse to abuse Typhoon some more in AV.

[Hutch]

At first I was "OUTRAGED" rabble rabble rabble! 


Then I actually looked at my characters, and realized I had already burned out my stockpiles of marks and honor upgrading stuff recently.


So I lose almost nothing. Oh noes, not my AV marks, how will I ever get 5000 more of those. 


Plus, it gives me an excuse to abuse Typhoon some more in AV.

Yeah. I'm not too concerned about replacing my giant stack of AV tokens either. I'm more oriented on how much time I'll have to spend in WSG to get the raptor mount :p

[Paelos]

Can we just scrap the old BGs and start over? I'm tired of all of them.

[K9]

Can we just scrap the old BGs and start over? I'm tired of all of them.

Word

I'd happily keep the same framework (1 CTF, 1 Assault, 1 Control Point, 1 dumb hybrid) of map styles but with a different map template for each level range. That would please me.

[Ingmar]

Eh, put a time limit on WSG and it is suddenly a whole new game (and probably a lot more fun.)

[Paelos]

Eh, put a time limit on WSG and it is suddenly a whole new game (and probably a lot more fun.)

You mean like WAR? 

[Zetor]

Putting arena rating [and arena point] requirements on every single epic piece of pvp gear is one of the stupidest decisions Blizz had made lately, kudos!


-- Z.

[SurfD]

Putting arena rating [and arena point] requirements on every single epic piece of pvp gear is one of the stupidest decisions Blizz had made lately, kudos!


-- Z.

actually, i think you can get Arena Points for participating in Lake Wintergrasp PvP if i remember correctly.  I still think the top tier PvP gear should definately have a rating requirement.  Especially since some arena gear for some specs is MUCH easier to get then PvE gear, and in many cases outright better for PvE then the comparative PvE pieces before the top end raids.

[Zetor]

Putting arena rating requirements to solve the problem of arena gear being used in pve is sort of like getting rid of an annoying rat by dropping a tactical nuke on the rat hole.

If the problem is pvp gear being used in pve, then make pvp gear usable for pvp only (ie. within BGs, arenas, wintergrasp), and allow everyone to get a full set right off the bat. Then, if some people get uber leet arena ratings, let them use the pvp gear outside those zones as well (these people will be *rare*).

Putting ratings on everything might solve the problem of joe bob in season2 outdamaging people in kara gear (that's as far as it goes, probably, and even that is a stretch for many classes), but it completely kills any sense of fair and meaningful competition in arena/BGs. Yeah, have fun in your blues getting 3-shot by people in full season 6 without even the illusion of a fighting chance!

To use another analogy, a chess newbie probably has no way to beat a grandmaster. In WOTLK pvp, the grandmaster would also have two of their pawns replaced by queens, and their rooks wouldl gain the ability to capture two adjacent figures at once...


-- Z.

[Fordel]

The ratings aren't for PvE balance, not in terms of mechanics. They are for PvE 'balance' in terms of rarity and e-peen.


That is their only reason for existing.

[Xeyi]

Putting arena rating [and arena point] requirements on every single epic piece of pvp gear is one of the stupidest decisions Blizz had made lately, kudos!

I didn't realise they were doing this.  After checking it seems even the blue pvp gear will need arena points as well.

As someone who enjoys the occasional BG, but can't stand arena I'm inclined to agree with the stupid decision statement.

From what I hear the arena points from Lake Wintergrasp are only for the beta and will be removed on live.  This hasn't been confirmed as far as I'm aware however.

[Ratman_tf]

I didn't realise they were doing this.  After checking it seems even the blue pvp gear will need arena points as well.

Huh. Well. That will be the end of my PvP in WoW then.

[K9]

Code:

Item prices
Price and rating requirements were added in the latest build of the Beta.

HP = Honor Point
AP = Arena Point
AR = Arena Rating

Savage Gladiator
Chest - 0 AR - 6000 HP and 350 AP    
Hands - 0 AR - 3600 HP and 200 AP
Head - 0 AR - 6000 HP and 350 AP
Legs - 0 AR - 6000 HP and 350 AP
Shoulder - 0 AR - 4800 and 275 AP
MH Weapons - 0 AR - 8400 HP and 475 AP
OH Weapons & Items - 0 AR - 3600 HP and 200 AP
	Shields - 0 AR - 6000 HP and 350 AP
2H Weapons - 0 AR - 12000 HP and 700 AP
Caster 1H Weapons - 0 AR - 10000 HP and 575 AP
Ranged Weapon - 0 AR - 12000 HP and 700 AP
Throwing Weapon - 0 AR - 3200 HP and 175 AP
Wands & Relics - - 0 AR - 3200 HP and 175 AP

Hateful Gladiator
Chest - 1725 AR - 6000 HP and 700 AP    
Hands - 1665 AR - 3600 HP and 400 AP
Head - 1785 AR - 6000 HP and 700 AP
Legs - 1695 AR - 6000 HP and 700 AP
Shoulder - 1825 AR - 4800 and 550 AP
MH Weapons - 1755 AR - 8400 HP and 950 AP
OH Weapons & Items - 1755 AR - 3600 HP and 400 AP
	Shields - 1755 AR - 6000 HP and 700 AP
2H Weapons - 1755 AR - 12000 HP and 1400 AP
Caster 1H Weapons - 1755 AR - 10000 HP and 1150 AP
Ranged Weapon - 1755 AR - 1200 HP and 1400 AP
Throwing Weapon - 1755 AR - 3200 HP and 350 AP
Wands - 1755 AR - 3200 HP and 350 AP

Deadly Gladiator:
Chest - 2020 AR - 2250 AP
Hands - 1900 AR - 1350 AP
Head - no AR - 6000 HP and 350 AP ( Most likely bugged )    
Legs - 1960 AR - 2250 AP
Shoulder - 2200 AR - 1800 AP
MH Weapons - 2080 AR - 3150 AP
OH Weapons & Items - 2080 AR - 1350 AP
	Shields - 2080 AR - 2250 AP
2H Weapons - 2080 AR - 4500 AP
Caster 1H Weapons - 2080 AR - 3150 AP
Ranged Weapon - 2080 AR - 4500 AP
Throwing Weapon - 2080 AR - 1200 AP
Wands - 2080 AR - 1200 AP 

Bear in mind that you get something like 300 Arena Points for a Wintergrasp Win and a smaller amount for a loss, Arena points won't be wholly unobtainable. Although it does seem teh stupids.

Rating is the main limiting factor, although I still think Blizz is clutching at straws here.

Ther third way is the Witergrasp Instance boss who drops PvP Glove, Chest and Legging tokens apparently.

[Ratman_tf]

[Bear in mind that you get something like 300 Arena Points for a Wintergrasp Win and a smaller amount for a loss, Arena points won't be wholly unobtainable. Although it does seem teh stupids.

Yeah, but if they pull arena rewards form Wintergrasp, then those of us who don't care for Arenas will be unable to gear up for Battlegrounds.

[Merusk]

I didn't realise they were doing this.  After checking it seems even the blue pvp gear will need arena points as well.

Huh. Well. That will be the end of my PvP in WoW then.

No dobut. Way to push folks to WAR, dumbasses. 

[Soln]

Um not to ask the obvious, but what about those classes which are disadvantage at Arenas, like mages (me)?

I know we get some AP for just showing up, but seriously.  Doesn't Blizz accept there are some classes based on well known stats that are basically uncompetitive in Arenas?

I ask this because Blizz seems to correct bad decisions over time I thought.

[Zetor]

Arenas are a joke of an "e-sport" (they have many flaws, severe class balance issues only one of them). Instead of relegating it to mini-game status (which is what it deserves), Blizz keeps pushing it as the "one true sort of pvp". Yeah, mercenary cage-fights should definitely be the center of pvp conflict, not, I dunno, the horde fighting the alliance... that'd make too much sense.


-- Z.

[K9]

Yeah, arenas suck balls.

[Ratman_tf]

I ask this because Blizz seems to correct bad decisions over time I thought.

Hopefully they will reconsider.

[Fordel]

The Arena's are some Dev's personal baby. It'll be awhile before they are killed and proper focus is returned.


I'm assuming as the seasons go by, the current gear will be 'down ranked' to be replaced by the new stuff, and ratings will be removed slowly.


Still, 

[Azaroth]

Let's face it. Ever since Blizzard started trying to fuck around with PvP, it's been a mess. Mainly because their design meeting consists mainly of a bunch of guys sitting around going "Okay. How can we make this a RIDICULOUS FUCKING GRIND THAT EVERYONE WILL HATE?".

[Phred]

The Arena's are some Dev's personal baby. It'll be awhile before they are killed and proper focus is returned.


I'm assuming as the seasons go by, the current gear will be 'down ranked' to be replaced by the new stuff, and ratings will be removed slowly.


Still, 

That assumes that they decide it's a mistake. Note they've been steadily increasing the amount of gear that requires arena points so there is no real sign they think it's a bad idea in the slightest. Going by their continued pricing it would actually appear that they are quite happy with the affect currently.

[Azaroth]

How about separate E-Sport servers.

Honestly, Blizzard has made some of the most illogical and downright retarded design decisions with PvP that I've ever seen.

Which does piss me off, because it ruins a game for me that I actually enjoy.

[apocrypha]

I didn't realise they were doing this.  After checking it seems even the blue pvp gear will need arena points as well.

Huh. Well. That will be the end of my PvP in WoW then.

Same here. I occasionally enjoy a bit of pvp and I've liked the fact that with my one char who pvp's I've been able to build up enough honor over 2+ years to now have him in some semi-decent pvp gear.

I've always hated the requirement for Marks for pvp gear because I can't stand AB or WSG and if they add Arena Points to the reqs then there's no point me pvp'ing at all any more - being *totally* out-geared quickly makes the fun go away!

Means I'm gonna have to try raiding again or else my endgame will be.. er... a different game :D

[Xanthippe]

I hate arenas, but never minded them being in because I figure it's a great way for people to duel in groups.  Some people enjoy that.  When they went in, they seemed like a fun pastime for some people (not me).

Then when they made it so gear could be gotten that way, more people participated.  I don't think they all enjoyed it but they did it (I still didn't, because I hate it).

Now they're completely fucking up battlegrounds for those of us who hate arena.  Thanks, Blizzard.



p.s. Why do people who are great at arena pvp get the best gear while those of us who are not great have worse gear?  That makes absolutely no sense in a game where gear means so much. 

[Merusk]

Same answer as the reason people really good at PvE get the best stuff. "Because nobody would do it if we didn't offer greater rewards!"

I holy by the same answer for PvP as I do for PvE. That's bullshit; the real reason you do it is retention.

[cevik]

Same answer as the reason people really good at PvE get the best stuff. "Because nobody would do it if we didn't offer greater rewards!"

I holy by the same answer for PvP as I do for PvE. That's bullshit; the real reason you do it is retention.

I don't see the difference between:  "Because nobody would do it if we didn't offer greater rewards!" and retention?  Maybe I'm missing something?

[Fordel]

How about separate E-Sport servers.

They have those! They are finishing up the finals or something soon.

[Azaroth]

".. So you could get that shit off of the regular servers".

[Fordel]

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/1/10532279664-wrath-of-the-lich-king-honor-update.html


No Wipe.


 

[Ralence]

  Pretty sure that's a "bad thing".  They're just going to adjust the costs for level 80 items to account for the fact that some people have 75k honor banked, unlike myself who just finished levelling my rogue to 70 a week ago.  Seems to me like it's just going to be a steeper curve for those that are behind already, but maybe I'm misunderstanding it.